Any magical automatic transmission fluid?

[dr_bowtie]

Re: Any magical automatic transmission fluid?

yea mixing fluid is never a good idea....I smoked a perfectly good trans once when I was a teen...within 5 miles....

The trans was a 350 turbo in my 76 Monza Hatchback...it shifted fine but was 1 court low...I thought trany fluid was trany fluid..I bought whatever was cheaper which was type F...before I got where I was going the trany started slipping and after that never moved...this was going down the road at 45mph...

Never again

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Any magical automatic transmission fluid?

Yeah, that's why I questioned Jason. I am not equipped to get all the fluid out, and I don't think there is a chance in h*** that I'll mix fluids.

I read someone on a forum that came up on Google who said Trans-X is not something you leave in. That you use it as a flushing agent, but then have to change the filter and fluid. Can anyone confirm that?

 

[JustJason]

Re: Any magical automatic transmission fluid?

TilliamWe,
I don't want to "tell" you what to do, I only offer up to you to do some more reading on type F and see if its something that you may think will help your situation.
Dextron vs type F is like any other oil thread. It goes on forever with yeah's and nay's and you never really get the answer you want out of them.
1. It's almost impossible for a DIY'er to diagnose whats slipping inside an automatic transmission. Some trannys have external taps that you can put gauges on to measure pump psi, some do not.
2. It could be the TQ converter (pump), the clutch packs glazed/broken/weak springs. Sticking actuators, all of the above, etc.

Dextron uses a base stock 10 weight hydraulic oil. Plus it has friction modifiers to make the transmission shift softer/smoother. A smoother shift means your slipping the clutch plates purposely. Much like slipping the clutch with a manual trans, slipping means wear.

Type F uses a base stock 15 weight hydraulic oil. So its a bit heavier to start with. If the impellar vanes in the TQ converter have started to burn, using the heavier weight will help keep pump psi up. Type F does not use friction modifiers. Type F is not designed to let clutches slip. Just the opposite in fact, it's designed to engage clutch packs very firmly

I wouldn't worry about mixing the 2. Its like mixing 5w-30 with 10w-40, doesn't really hurt anything. Its much worse mixing 1/2 good trans fluid and 1/2 bad trans fluid, which is what your doing when you don't get it all out.

To get most of your old fluid out. Remove the pan and filter. Put a big catch pan under the car. Disable the ignition system and crank the engine over for 10 seconds. Break for a minute and do it again. Keep repeating until the TQ converter has pumped everything out. Then reinstall a new filter/gasket/pan. Dump in 3 qts. Start and run for 30 seconds. Dump in 2 or 3 more qts, repeat. Once you get 5 or 6 qts in, start it and at idle shift through all the gears 1 by 1, put it back into park and check the level with the engine running. Some trannys will take as much as 12 qts to fill the system. It may be best to get a GM service manual that gives the actual spec for quantity.

Either way your trying to save the transmission at this point. Do some reading and see if a type f flush is the way you want to go. If it feels worse (and it shouldn't, the tranny should shift like a mack truck with type F) You can always go back to dextron.
Hope that helps

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Any magical automatic transmission fluid?

Thanks for the specifics, Jason. But why would I want it to "shift like a Mack truck with type F"? It shifts smoothly now. It's only done the "hard shift" 3 times in the past year. Other than that, it shifts perfectly smooth (like the great GM transmission it is!). I don't think I'll switch fluids. But I might use your method to get more clean Dextron into it, though.

 

[DECK SWABBER 58]

Re: Any magical automatic transmission fluid?

My 2004 Chevy Impala has 125,000 miles on it. Also, for the first 4 years of its life, it would be left idling, all day long, while I inspected wrecked cars.
Well, the transmission is starting to slip a little, only upon initial take off. Not all the time, not just when cold or hot, very intermittently. It has shifted very hard between the gears on about 3 occasions in the last year. The filter has been changed at 65k at 95k, and again at 115k, so maintenance is not the real issue. I checked the fluid yesterday, it's full, not burned, but I did see some foreign material on the very base of the stick. Obviously, I will be changing the filter again.

My main question is, "Is there a transmission fluid that can help prolong it's life now that it has started to slip?"

Thanks

Since your trans works ok most of the time it sounds like your electronic pressure regulator valve MAYBE starting to fail. Very common with this trans. GM has a service bulletin for older models, they redesigned the part due to sticking. A '04 should should already have the new design so it's MAYBE just starting to go bad. This valve controls the mainline pressure according to engine load. Pressure too low causes a slip, too high very hard shifts. It's often very intermittent until it totally fails.
Can be replaced with trans in car, it's behind the valve body cover.
GOOD LUCK.

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Any magical automatic transmission fluid?

Since your trans works ok most of the time it sounds like your electronic pressure regulator valve MAYBE starting to fail. Very common with this trans. GM has a service bulletin for older models, they redesigned the part due to sticking. A '04 should should already have the new design so it's MAYBE just starting to go bad. This valve controls the mainline pressure according to engine load. Pressure too low causes a slip, too high very hard shifts. It's often very intermittent until it totally fails.
Can be replaced with trans in car, it's behind the valve body cover.
GOOD LUCK.

Hmmm, very interesting! Thanks!

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Any magical automatic transmission fluid?

Deckswabber,

Is that a part that can be checked at any time, or would the trans have to be acting up at that moment?
And when you say it's behind the valve body cover, is that accessed by removing the transmission pan?
Any idea what the retail price of that component is?

Thanks again.

 

[DECK SWABBER 58]

Re: Any magical automatic transmission fluid?

Deckswabber,

Is that a part that can be checked at any time, or would the trans have to be acting up at that moment?
And when you say it's behind the valve body cover, is that accessed by removing the transmission pan?
Any idea what the retail price of that component is?

Thanks again.

Usually an electrical part only tests bad when the problem is there. If your check engine light is on or has come on recently their could be a stored trouble code in the computer. If a pressure guage was hooked up while it was acting up it would show too high or too low pressure. Also a shop with the right computer scan tool can manually operate the pressure solenoid which might show something.

The valve body cover is on back side of trans opposite bell housing, next to l.f. wheel. Labor guide shows 5.6 hrs. Part should be around $75.00 to 100.00.

Keep in mind if their is debris in trans, ie, metal particles or clutch plate material this will cause solenoids to stick too. But as intermittent as it is I doubt it.

Hope this helps.

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Any magical automatic transmission fluid?

That helps alot. No check engine light has ever come on in this car, ever. So easy diagnosis is out of the question.

With everyone's comment, I think my plan of action will be:

* Change the filter
* Add either Trans-X or Lucas
* Drive vehicle and see what happens.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Any magical automatic transmission fluid?

The code that gets thrown when the check engine light comes on is not going to tell you anything. Basically, its going to tell you what you already know...a bad shift.

My brother had this exact same problem on a Chevy truck. I believe it was the same valve. On a truck its an easy repair but requires some room on the side of the tranny to do the job properly. Not sure if there is enough room on car.

I will post back later with more info.

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Any magical automatic transmission fluid?

Not sure if there is enough room on car.

I will post back later with more info.

Yeah, there would be. I'd have to remove some of the stuff above it to have easier access, but I can physically touch the entire top of that cover.
Tearing it apart to replace that valve will be my last course of action, since it does "appear" at this point that there is some metal circulating. So if I can get the metal out, maybe the valve will operate properly.

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Any magical automatic transmission fluid?

Okay, minor update.

With access to a garage for the first time in forever, I changed the transmission filter and added Trans-X today. I will now drive 500 miles to my home. We'll see if it makes any difference. The pan did have fine metal in it, as it has had before. No more than the last time, no less. Only a little more than typical in all of the filters I have changed on various GM products in the past.

One side note, I attempted to get more fluid out in the process described earlier in this thread (cranking motor over with the starter for 10 seconds at a time), and it did NOT work, at all. Not one additional drop of fluid came out of the transmission. I was a little sad.

 

[SuperNova]

Re: Any magical automatic transmission fluid?

Well, you're not really having noise issues are you? Then I wouldn't really expect to see much metal in the pan at this point. What I would do is cut that filter open and look for clutch debris....it'll look somewhat like coffee grounds. You won't see it around the little opening in the filter...you have to cut the filter open to find it.

I'm not surprised that you didn't get any more fluid out...there was so much wrong info in that post......

 

[DECK SWABBER 58]

Re: Any magical automatic transmission fluid?

It might be well worth spending $100.00 to have the trans "flushed". Most quick lubes do this, new car dealers too and bigger shops. This will change all the fluid. 2/3's of the fluid is held in the torque converter, that is what Jason was talking about. Years ago most fords and chryslers had drain plugs in the converter but never gm.

Believe it or not fords service procedure for a complete fluid change used to be run to the engine with oil cooler line cracked and keep adding fluid until clean!! Personally I would never do this, a $100.00 flush is
$$$ well spent on a $1500.00/$1800.00 trans.

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Any magical automatic transmission fluid?

I'm still considering a flush, especially then if the transmission quits, I can blame them.

But actually, considering how often I have changed the fluid, it's all been changed out at least once, probably twice over the life of the car, and Dextron III is supposed to be good for 100k.

 

[windsors03cobra]

Re: Any magical automatic transmission fluid?

I dont really think the extended idling killed the trans. Its too bad that 4T60E has been a pretty good transaxle in darn near every app its been used in since the mid fricken 80's.
The supercharged 3.8's could kill them pretty easy.

Replaced a 4L60E in a 90,000 mile 00 Astro couple months back, pretty early and rare failure, adult driven never abused. Slipping pretty bad, replaced it with a 110k mile junkyard piece for $500
Also maintain a 289K 95 Astro for a customer. Drove it this weekend, original 4L60E and it shifts out great.