Any Plumbers in the house?

[heyttown]

Last night I found a small leak coming from a soldier joint.... I have both copper and galvanized pipe which I want to get rid of.....The way it was all plumbed in is whacky to say the least,plus it runs above my ductwork,which I always bang the head on Im 6'3"....So Ive come to the conclusion to just replumb it all, so I can raise my ductwork to the ceiling and get rid of the galvanized...(Ive notice my hot water,doesnt have much pressure)<br />Ive been looking at the ads for your local home repair shops and there appears to be 2 types of copper plumbing(both have slipped my memory at this time), My question is what type is best type to use for my house?<br />While Im replumbing the house,(galvanized goes upstairs also) should I replace the gas hot water heater as its 10 or 11 years old( no issues yet, but would hate to redue it next year or so.....Im not sure of the life expectancy of those things....<br />I have what looks like 3/4"copper into the house,I should probably keep it 3/4"until I hit the hot water tank, then is 1/2" ok or should I keep it 3/4".....<br />Also are the Mapp gas torches better then the regular propane torches to justify the increased priced....When I worked on residential property (years ago) I think all the plumbers used regular hand held propane torches, well the folks at home depot and lowes try to sell these Mapp gas torches instead.Whats the scoop?<br />As you can tell im no plumber, but I am handy and willing to learn as I go...<br />Any tips or tricks you can add will also be appreciated.

 

[chuckz]

Re: Any Plumbers in the house?

For domestic water lines use the blue stripped copper pipe.<br /><br />An ordinary propane torch is fine as long as the line you are sweating is dry.<br /><br />When it comes to sweating pipes, cleanliness is next to Godliness. Get pipe brushes and use them.<br /><br />Gas hot water heaters are relatively cheap. When you are replacing the piping install valves and unions in the hot water lines to the heater. This makes it easier to replace the heater now or later.

 

[gspig]

Re: Any Plumbers in the house?

Use either copper, one is a thicker wall than the other. The fittings are not interchangable, so watch what you get. MAPP burns hotter, the torch head will fit on a MAPP cylinder or propane. Propane will melt solder, job may go faster with MAPP, but I have never used it. Replace the heater, it is long past its prime, you may even find a more efficient model. 3/4 to the heater, 1/2 after.

 

[dolluper]

Re: Any Plumbers in the house?

Pick up the inside pipe cleaners they come in 1/2 and 3/4 sizes [handle and wire] make sure inside and outside of pipe is clean,outside can be done with emery cloth ,lots of paste flux inside and out apply solder with heat away from joint so the heat pulls the solder in the joint DRY FIT EVERYTHING BEFORE YOU START TO SOLDER Your supply cold water running into the house should be 3/4 running to your heater , usuall a tee there one to heater ,the other to continue to house 3/4 there ,so add 3/4 to 1/2 reducer so your hot and cold past the heater are 1/2 lines. Propane is fine but Mapp is quicker heat DON'T FORGET TO TURN YOUR MAIN SUPPLY VALVE OFF and let your pipes drain after because water in them solder doesn,t take How's that for a start

 

[dolluper]

Re: Any Plumbers in the house?

Your other ?? 1/2 diffently after the heater unless you want to keep 3/4 until you come to a tap it's 1/2 fittings waste of money in my opinon<br />Your laundry tub is the best place to open the taps to drain your system after the main is turned off

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: Any Plumbers in the house?

3/4" should be the main feeds and branch off to 1/2" to the faucets. This will prevent sudden pressure loss when someone flushes or is in the shower.<br /><br />Be sure to put drain fittings at the low spots to accomodate future repairs.<br /><br />Last and my favorite... get some plastic tags about 2" x 3" the ones with the wires that attach (staples has them) and mark every pipe in the basement and label each shut off. It helps when we need to shut off the proper line in a hurry.<br /><br />Bob

 

[cajun555]

Re: Any Plumbers in the house?

Watch tour heat if you use mapp, its easy to over heat the joint and it won't take solder.<br /><br />Any valves you use, I would highly reccomend ball valves. <br /><br />Its easiest if you build a section of pipe and run solder on a bunch of joints at one time. <br /><br />Like posted before cleanliness is next to godliness and use the right flux after sanding.<br /><br /> Good lUCK

 

[all thumbs]

Re: Any Plumbers in the house?

Not a plumber by trade but have done alot of pipe soldering on water supply and hot water heating. The 2 sizes of pipe are L and M. can't remember which one is smaller dia. But I was told to just use the smaller diameter on my hot water heat which only runs about 6lbs of pressure. I just used regular gas with no problem. Some good info above, just like to add . pressure test with air before running water to test for leaks. It can be tuff trying to solder after pipes get wet.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Any Plumbers in the house?

stay away from Mapps, you'll get into trouble. You can just about sweat 1/2 and 3/4 copper with a match.<br /><br />Both L and M copper has the same outside diameter. I can never remember which is which but the thicker stuff is for inground. <br /><br />Always isolate your steel and copper pipe with di-electric couplers or you will get a galvanic flow of metal. This could be the reason for your leak.

 

[heyttown]

Re: Any Plumbers in the house?

Thanks for all the help, I will let you all know how it goes....

 

[dhammann]

Re: Any Plumbers in the house?

Copper is old technology, consider using PEX. PEX is cross-linked-polyethylene that is like a stiff hose. It is easy to install by the DIY’ers. It is fastened to brass fittings with crimp rings that are applied with a special tool ($100) that guarantees a secure leak proof joint every time. PEX is inert, corrosion resistant and good up to 200 degrees. Copper is dangerous if you have corrosive water, copper poisoning can cause serious health problems.

 

[D Grass]

Re: Any Plumbers in the house?

Type L copper is thicker than type M. Also the soft copper that comes in rolls is type L thickness. If you do decide to use pex get the stuff without the Oxygen barrier. The oxygen barrier pipe is for heating systems.

 

[Ben Konopacky]

Re: Any Plumbers in the house?

health wise use "LEAD FREE" solder for potable h2o, 50/50 can be used for plum/htng. if you stay w/lead free only you won't get them mixed.De burr the id. of the cu. tube it is a restriction miniscule but accumulative,thats what that pointy thing on the cutter is for.after cleaning the joints keep your fingers off,they have oil on them and will not solder.wipe joint after soldering makes the job LOOK like a pro did it.

 

[heyttown]

Re: Any Plumbers in the house?

Ok started my project tonight.....Hard part is doing as much as I can without turning the water off until I absolutely have to,Luckily Im an electrician and am pretty good figuring out the runs.....I have the 3/4 ran from right near the water meter to right near the hotwater tank....My concern is on some joints I get a nice even flow and I clean it up while its still hot,looks really nice.My problem is on some joints dont look so great,almost like the solder isnt flowing all the way around the joint.If I dont get what appears to be a good flow does that mean it didnt seal well?What causes this lack of enough flux,to much heat? My fingers will be crossed when I turn the water on......<br />I think its going pretty well for never soldering copper ever before,but when it comes time to solder near the wood(up in the joist,or wall) There at one time was a fire in my basement,the charred wood is still there, and somebody (previous owner) sistered the joist with new 2x6,but Im afraid that charred wood has to be extremely dried out(50 yr old house)I have a fire blanket,but still nervous anyways.....Do I have a reason to worry or am I just paranoid?

 

[heyttown]

Re: Any Plumbers in the house?

lots of paste flux inside and out apply solder with heat away from joint so the heat pulls the solder in the joint

My question is if im running say a 3/4 copper into a 3/4 T. Do I heat the 3/4 pipe in front of the joint,or the center of the T. Im thinking this could be part of my flow problem?

 

[heyttown]

Re: Any Plumbers in the house?

Ok so Im doing that correct.Thanks

 

[Bondo]

Re: Any Plumbers in the house?

Heat the "T"....

 

[ED21]

Re: Any Plumbers in the house?

I always heat the tubing in front of the fitting.<br />That way you won't unsolder the other joints.<br />Hold the torch right up to the tubing right at the joint. <br />When hot enough the solder should flow & drip off the bottom, usually on me.

 

[MudIsFun]

Re: Any Plumbers in the house?

I just plumbed my new room addition and garage as well as re-running my entire water main. If you are running new pipe in the walls, I would suggest the "soft" coiled copper. Makes it a lot easier to run plus you have the added benefit of no joints which can leak for long runs such as across the attic. I only used the "hard" sticks for short runs where I did not need to go through fire blocks or the like.<br /><br />Remember, if you are installing new valves to keep them open so you do not fry the rubber grommets and o-rings. If you are installing a new shower valve you should be able to remove all of the guts of the valve. If not you will most likely melt the plastic inside as well as fry the rubber gaskets.<br /><br />I used a 3 foot legenth of aluminum foil folded over several times as a heat deflector. It would fit into any space I needed it to and it would not catch and tear on the little solder "drips" that hang off the bottom of your fitting which kept tearing the heat blanket. When the foil looked hammered, just get a new peice and start again.<br /><br />Good luck!

 

[dolluper]

Re: Any Plumbers in the house?

If your putting solder on left you heat on the right so the solder pulls in to the joint,doing a tee you heat in the middle so solder pulls in "Note" solder doesn't flow up so on a run going up and down it's best to make your bottom joint on the floor then put pipe up and do your upper joint as the solder will flow down as you heat below the joint,or you can plate solder it by putting solder on piece to go into joint by heating pipe applying solder and wipeing so it's just plated then stick in joint and heat, takes a bit of practice try on some scrap pieces........ p-edit making an elbow joint on the bottom first then stick elbow or tee in upperjoint Always heat in middle of elbow or tee to solder joint