Any Starter Gurus?

[ShawnQ]

Well, I recently figured out my rough idle/intermittent spark problem, thank god! BUT, now I've found another problem :% :| (darn used outboards! :devil.

After testing the spark problem, I adjusted my throttle cables and checked my out-of-water idle. As I was doing this, I happened to look back at the engine as I turned the key. I noticed that the drive gear on the starter was staying 'up' and hitting the bottom of the flywheel and throwing sparks towards the carbs! They weren't electric sparks, but metal on metal!

So, I turned it off, and had a look.

The spring that goes on the starter, shown in the pic below,

was torn into two pieces and completely twisted. So, I went down to my local hardware store and found a spring that matched it exactly, and cut it to fit length wise. I re-installed it, and it twisted and mangled it within the first two cranks.

By looking at the starter in the picture, I am not missing any pieces.

Anyone have a schematic of this starter? Any idea why this thing keeps eating the springs?

Other than the spring being ruined, the starter works fine so I hate to buy a new one. I'm going to look at having it rebuilt, but I'd like to fix it myself if I could. I was hoping to get on the water this evening...but no go :/

Thanks in advance.
Shawn

 

[seahorse5]

Re: Any Starter Gurus?

go to the www.evinrude.com website and go to parts books section. they will have the parts breakdown and numbers that you need.

 

[DHPMARINE]

Re: Any Starter Gurus?

If the starter is hitting the bottom of the flywheel and causing sparks .... it is not working fine.

I'm not sure where your problem lies,but at least try a drop of oil on the shaft about where your arrow is.

DHP

 

[F_R]

Re: Any Starter Gurus?

The purpose of the spring is to hold the pinion down so it doesn't "dance" around from vibration and come up to where it makes contact with the spinning flywheel, which is what you are seeing. I believe it is called an "anti-drift" spring.

I have no idea what broke yours, but I really believe that a new one of the correct design should work OK. When you get the new one in there try running the pinion up and down by hand to make sure the spring isn't somehow getting pinched or something. Actually, the thing is generally pretty foolproof.

 

[ShawnQ]

Re: Any Starter Gurus?

The purpose of the spring is to hold the pinion down so it doesn't "dance" around from vibration and come up to where it makes contact with the spinning flywheel, which is what you are seeing. I believe it is called an "anti-drift" spring.

I have no idea what broke yours, but I really believe that a new one of the correct design should work OK. When you get the new one in there try running the pinion up and down by hand to make sure the spring isn't somehow getting pinched or something. Actually, the thing is generally pretty foolproof.

I thought it was foolproof also. I bought and installed a replacement spring already, and it twisted the spring and ruined it within three turns of the keyswitch.

The Pinion does exactly what you said. When the RPM's get into the 2k-4k range, it wants to vibrate up and hit the flywheel.

I can't figure out why the springs are getting shredded. It seems like a simple design that should be a simple fix...but it wasn't.

Thanks for the help. Looks like I'll be buying a new starter or looking at rebuild prices.

SQ

 

[JB]

Re: Any Starter Gurus?

"So, I went down to my local hardware store and found a spring that matched it exactly, and cut it to fit length wise. "

Hardly a replacement spring, Shawn. If you had to cut it it didn't "match it exactly".

What you did was severe underkill for the problem and replacing the whole starter would be severe overkill.

Unless there is more that you haven't noticed or haven't told us an OEM replacement spring should get it working correctly.

 

[ShawnQ]

Re: Any Starter Gurus?

Well, the spring matched exactly - other than length.

I don't believe I can buy just the spring from BRP. After looking at their parts catalog online, you have to buy the whole 'drive' assembly which is $40+ if I remember correctly.

Why not just spend $100 on a whole new unit and not have to worry about my brushes going out in a few months?

The only other thing I noticed on the starter is that the pinion/drive gear seems to be a bit loose on the shaft. It shouldn't affect the spring much though.

For the record - the old spring and the new (hardware store) spring look exactly the same now, only the hardware store spring is not in 2 pieces yet. They both got crunched and twisted...not sure why. I can take a picture of them tomorrow.

Any idea how to find out if I can buy just a spring?

Thanks
SQ

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Any Starter Gurus?

The springs may be likely failing because they are not rotating when the pinion rises. The pinion gear rotates as it rises. If there is a burr on the gear or either end of the spring the spring stays put as the gear rotates. It therefore tends to unwind the spring. If the spring is too long it may also be experiencing coil bind when the pinion is full up and the spring is fully compressed.

 

[F_R]

Re: Any Starter Gurus?

They show the spring as available only as a complete drive assembly part number 585267, superseded by 586100 starter drive kit. Maybe there is a clue there. Maybe there was a problem with the design? I dunno the answer to that one. 586100 is about 50 bucks.

 

[ezeke]

Re: Any Starter Gurus?

The spring should completely compress into the cup that is just under the top bolt. Make sure that the cup is facing down, clear of foreign material, lightly lubricated, and clean.

 

[ShawnQ]

Re: Any Starter Gurus?

The spring should completely compress into the cup that is just under the top bolt. Make sure that the cup is facing down, clear of foreign material, lightly lubricated, and clean.

The spring is fully compressing, but I don't think it is all going into the cup. Looking at the 'OEM' one, I don't think it could have either (too many coils to fit into the cup).

I think the spring is not continuing to spin with the pinion gear, like Silvertip said. I'll have to look at the gear and the cup and make sure there is nothing binding it up.

Anyone have a similar starter they could measure this spring on?

Thanks
Shawn

 

[ezeke]

Re: Any Starter Gurus?

It has to all go in the cup and the spring is flattened at the top and bottom so it slips. That's how it works. Sorry.

If any of the hip-shooters here would like to check their working Bosch starters by turning the gear clockwise up the shaft, they might confirm this for you.

BTW, 393354 is the number for the nut spring and cup [spacer] kit - about 15 dollars if you get it from your local dealer.8)

 

[rdcinmn]

Re: Any Starter Gurus?

The first time I had my boat on the water the nut, cup & spring decided to remove themselves from the starter.
I only found the nut & cup.
Got a new spring from the local dealer.

Check the inside of the pinion gear & the shaft for any burrs.
If you find any remove with a small file or fine emery colth.
Lubricate with antiseize worked the best for me.

 

[mikesea]

Re: Any Starter Gurus?

maybe the fact the gear assy.is loose ,as you say on the shaft,the spring is enabled to get wedged between shaft and assy.that could cause the assy.to stay stuck and be torn up by the starter,the only other way it could 'stay up' is if the starter was still receiving power,i believe your assy,needs to be changed

 

[ezeke]

Re: Any Starter Gurus?

ttt

 

[ShawnQ]

Re: Any Starter Gurus?

Well guys, I think I found my problem. I think my 'makeshift' spring would've probably worked just fine. I think the old spring probably would've been fine to.

My engine has this starter on it:
389954

According to my local dealer, that is NOT the starter it should have. This could be why it is ruining the spring. The dealer said it should be this one:

0585057

After a little bit of research, the part #0585057 crosses to the older 389954 - but they re-designed it. I assume, as mentioned a few posts above, the older design had problems.

I didn't get a chance to look and see if there were any burrs or anything keeping the spring from spinning. I did however try to find a starter locally and didn't have any luck.

Thanks
SQ

 

[Silvertip]

Re: Any Starter Gurus?

If the starter works, get the right spring installed. No need replacing the starter.

 

[ShawnQ]

Re: Any Starter Gurus?

I searched for a few of the part #'s found in this post.

Does anyone have the definite part # of the spring only?

Thanks
Shawn

 

[ezeke]

Re: Any Starter Gurus?

The spring only was 316742, It is superseded by 393354.

 

[ShawnQ]

Re: Any Starter Gurus?

The spring only was 316742, It is superseded by 393354.

I searched for the OMC drive kit here in town and couldn't find it anywhere in stock.

So, I searched and found the Sierra Cross-Ref #, and called around with that one - still no luck.

Then I saw that the Mercury, Johnson, and Evinrude all used the same drive kit. I crossed the Sierra # over to the Mercury Marine #, and found one in town. Installed it, and it seems to work great now.

For the record - the old 'CUP' I had was nicked up on the inside. I think it may have caused the old spring to snag, thus preventing it from spinning and binding it up.

All seems well now...I'm going to try and wet test it tonight, if not then tomorrow.

Thanks for the help and the patience.

Shawn Q.