Are small 4-strokes any good?

[Evinrude Boater]

My brother-in-law has a 8'x16' raft made of wood and he wants to get a small 4-stroke to move it around. Currently he has a 9.8 Mercury but he doesn't like sitting by the motor when it's WOT. He complains that it's too noisey. Will a small 4-stroke have the guts to move his raft around or is a 2-stroke the answer?
Also, who makes small 4-strokes? He wants to get a used mid '90s engine.

 

[JRJ]

Re: Are small 4-strokes any good?

A small 4-stroke will move the raft just fine and be quieter running. Several brands to chose from. Have fun.

 

[gss036]

Re: Are small 4-strokes any good?

Probably would be a limited supply to choose from (HONDA / Yamaha ?) w/mid 90's range, but jump up to 2000 and there are several to choose from. Honda, Suzuki, ("Tohatsu/Nissan/Mercury are all the same" engine, different colors.)

 

[hitace]

Re: Are small 4-strokes any good?

that 9.9 4 stroke will be close to double the weight and you will wonder where your speed went but that 4 stroke will be much quieter smother and cleaner ect.that loud sound you here from the old merc is th sound of power

 

[Rancherlee]

Re: Are small 4-strokes any good?

the weight is a bit more the the 4 stroke (NOT even close to double as its 75-80# for an old OMC 9.9 compared to 95-105 for a 4 stroke) and if he does alot of trolling around the 4 strokes use less than half the gas. BUT good luck finding a 9.9 4 stroke used for under 1000$ which buys more gas than that old merc 9.8 will use in its life.

 

[Tacklewasher]

Re: Are small 4-strokes any good?

Went from a early 80's Johnson 9.9 to a Mid 80's Honda 100 (10 hp).

Yes it is heavier but nowhere near double. I can still lift it out of the truck and put it on a kicker bracket.

I love the Honda. I use it on my 12 ft and as a kicker on my 18 ft. Trolls all day on fumes and a lot quieter than the 9.9 was.

 

[hitace]

Re: Are small 4-strokes any good?

9.9 hp Dry Weight Tiller (Elec) (S/L/X) 46/49/53 Kg - 102/108/117 Lbs.

OMC hp dry weight 58 pounds

like i said cloes to double in weight

 

[External Combustion]

Re: Are small 4-strokes any good?

Rancherlee: Less than 620 hours is the life expectancy of the Merc?

One kilobuck times 6.5 pound of gasoline per gallon divided by 10 hp times .35 pounds per hp/ hr times $3/gallon?

I guess I am cheap but my youngest engine a '72 85 Hp Evenrude has easily surpassed this many times. My oldest a '41 Scott Attwater, is still up to the task even after many years of over 200 hours per year.

Who would put up with a car that would only go 60,000 miles?

Oil is cheaper than iron, maintenance is cheaper than neglect.

 

[Rancherlee]

Re: Are small 4-strokes any good?

Rancherlee: Less than 620 hours is the life expectancy of the Merc?

In my personal experiances with them, yes . Like most people he probibly only uses the engine a few hours ever other weekend in which it would take 10+ years to reach 620 hours and thats assuming that the new engine didn't use any gas. trolling alot a 4 stroke would use around 1/2 the gas, at wot it would use about 75% the ol' merc does which means you would need at the very least 1240 hours to make up for fuel savings.

 

[pwiseman]

Re: Are small 4-strokes any good?

2 stroke is going to be louder and yes 4 stroke is more expensive and heavier.

I was a huge fan of 4stroke because of the quiteness and what seemed to be reliability. After a few years, my opinion is that they are not as reliable as initially thought.

The 4 stroke motors in the small range have carbs and they tend to have very small jets and some are picky on fuel. Expensive to get fixed or a pain if you do it yourself.

My choice today would be an OMC 6, 9.9 or 15 HP. They are all solid, easy to work on, easy to find parts and you can get them running like a top.

Also, weight on 4-stroke is a big deal on small boats. Much more so than larger boats.

The EFI 4 Stokes seem to be holding up pretty well, but you have to go up to at least a 25 or 40 HP to get that.

 

[kenmyfam]

Re: Are small 4-strokes any good?

Stick with a 2 stroke !!!!! You just can't beat that smell when you fire it up in the morning......it's like a drug !!!!

 

[josip_voyager]

Re: Are small 4-strokes any good?

Just couple of facts about 4-strokes. Honda and Yamaha have 4-strokes that are lighter than 2-strokes (direct injection or classic). For example Honda BF20 or Yamaha F20 are 30% lighter then classic 2-strokes.

Concerning the life span, I ride a coople of 4-strokes that have more than 5000 working hours without any problem.

You should at least try 4-stroke outboards to say 2-strokes are better. For me there are no arguments to buy 2-strokes. That is like to buy old PC or classic TV instead of LCD...

 

[hitace]

Re: Are small 4-strokes any good?

thats a load of crap theres no way in this world that a 4 stroke can be lighter then a old style 2 stroke NO WAY!! and if you don't believe me go to there sites then go to the old OMC site and compare weight you must work for the one of them jap company's heres a graph i made that compares weight.all the weights were taken from the official websites.not to mention all the more power a 2 stroke has

 

[JB]

Re: Are small 4-strokes any good?

Well I have owned a lot of outboards, including both 2 stroke (1978) and 4 stroke (1997) Johnny 9.9s. I loved them both, but for different reasons.

On my Boston Whaler 11 the 2 stroke was quicker to plane and seemed a bit faster. Maybe the noise made it seem faster, I don't know. It was more nimble and rode more level at rest. It weighed about 60LB.

Same boat, the 4 stroke made her stern low at rest. Easier to start, smoother and much quieter. Slower to plane, but she moved along well and used a bit less than half the gas. It weighed 107LB.

Which would I prefer on a raft? Probably the 2 stroke because I have no idea of the weight carrying ability of the raft.

 

[pwiseman]

Re: Are small 4-strokes any good?

Just couple of facts about 4-strokes. Honda and Yamaha have 4-strokes that are lighter than 2-strokes (direct injection or classic). For example Honda BF20 or Yamaha F20 are 30% lighter then classic 2-strokes.

Concerning the life span, I ride a coople of 4-strokes that have more than 5000 working hours without any problem.

You should at least try 4-stroke outboards to say 2-strokes are better. For me there are no arguments to buy 2-strokes. That is like to buy old PC or classic TV instead of LCD...

I don't think you are being very objective. I can tell you I have run the 4s and the 2s and they both have good and not so good qualities. If you want to compare weight, then be fair about it and pick a HP rating that is common like 6, 8, 9.9 or 15. Then list the weights out.

Also there are plenty of very old 2 strokes running around, so I don't think longivity is a reason that 4 stroke would come out on top. They are quieter and they tend to be less smelly on exhaust.

It matters a lot what your intentions are for said motor. Do you want something that can run WOT all day, do you want to troll around all day, or a mix? Also, what happens when you have a problem? How much to fix, how much effort, how long to get parts? Probably different answer depending where run your boat.

 

[josip_voyager]

Re: Are small 4-strokes any good?

I mean that there are 4-strokes model that are lighter than even classic 2-strokes. For example try to compare Honda BF 20 or Yamaha F20 with Yamaha or Mercury 20 PS classic two strokes, and you'll see that it's possible that 4-strokes are lighter then 2-strokes (direct injection or classic).
You can find similar examples in others power range.

If you find that 2-strokes are better, no problem, buy it. But in reallity, I think that a lot of people in this forum are suggesting to others to buy 2-strokes, while at the same time they buy 4-strokes for themselves.

Mercury, Yamaha and Tohatsu/Nissan offer both: direct injected 2-strokes (Mercury Optimax, Tohatsu/Nissan TLDI and Yamaha HPDI) and 4-strokes, but more then a 80 (maybe 90%) of the outboards they've sold are 4-strokes. Evinrude is the only one who offer only DI two strokes.

That is contradiction. Logical question would be if two strokes outboards are so good, why more then 90% of the people wants to buy 4-strokes.

It can be that all of them are stupid.

 

[pwiseman]

Re: Are small 4-strokes any good?

Yamaha 15 2 Stroke - 79 lbs
Yamaha 25 2 Stroke - 105 lbs
Honda 15 and 20 - 114
Honda 25 - 156 Lbs

There is no current 20 HP Yamaha or Merc 2 Stroke in the US, so I am not sure what you are comparing.

 

[Rancherlee]

Re: Are small 4-strokes any good?

thats a load of crap theres no way in this world that a 4 stroke can be lighter then a old style 2 stroke NO WAY!! and if you don't believe me go to there sites then go to the old OMC site and compare weight you must work for the one of them jap company's heres a graph i made that compares weight.all the weights were taken from the official websites.not to mention all the more power a 2 stroke has

I'd like to see where they got there listed weights form on the old OMC's I have a 77' 6hp which is 56# on a certified scale, a 74' 9.9hp which is 79# on the scale and mid 80's 40hp electric start twin NO-TnT that is 171# on that scale. My 88spl was 332# with tnt and aluminum prop, and my current Johnzuki was 70 is 348# with the oil drained and an aluminum prop (359# is the listed wet weight on the website) My grandpa's New yamaha 9.9 high thrust, electric start, and power tilt and trim tipped the scale at 121#

 

[jspringator]

Re: Are small 4-strokes any good?

I have a 75 6hp and I believe the listed weight is 52 or 53 lbs. I think I got the weight from the owners manual.

 

[josip_voyager]

Re: Are small 4-strokes any good?

Yamaha 15 2 Stroke - 79 lbs
Yamaha 25 2 Stroke - 105 lbs
Honda 15 and 20 - 114
Honda 25 - 156 Lbs

There is no current 20 HP Yamaha or Merc 2 Stroke in the US, so I am not sure what you are comparing.



Please look at the Yamaha european page:
http://www.yamaha-motor-europe.com/...s/commercial/20_25_30_40_50.jsp?view=techinfo

Yamaha 20D - 108 lbs
Honda BF20 - 100 lbs.

On US site you can't find Yamaha classic 2-strokes becaus they can't pass EPA 2006 regulations.

Honda BF50 has the same weight as the Mercury50 PS classic two strokes...
(check the european Brunswick/Mercury site at http://www.brunswickmarineemea.eu/), and is much lighter then direct injected two strokes like for example Evfinrude E-tec 50 (240 lbs while Honda weights 207 lbs).

You can find many more examples where 4-strokes are not only much lighter then direct injected two strokes, but is lighter then classic two strokes.


People on this site talks always about weight, which is not so important factor especially at big offshore boats, because what means weight difference od couple of lbs on 23' boats which weight 3000 lbs?