Automobiles

[txswinner]

My youngest daughter is returning home from 2 yrs in NYC (yeah) and returning to grad school at UT. Needed a car so went out to buy one.<br /><br />Interesting comment made by sales manager; thought I would share.<br /><br />He says the problem with the high cost of autos is a result of labor cost at the factory and the labor unions.<br /><br />Guess he thinks his hard work selling is worth more than the work of skilled labor at the factory. Is he not labor also? This is the mindset in America, whatever we do, must make us better than labor; I say not true.

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: Automobiles

A sales guy commenting on the value of a hard days work.... He'd steal your money as soon as look at you. I know, I know- I am unfairly stereotyping him. I have yet to meet a car salesman who wasn't my best friend before I even walked in the door.<br /><br />Here's a smiley in case I offended any sales people

 

[txswinner]

Re: Automobiles

They just want to get you the best deal.

 

[Haut Medoc]

Re: Automobiles

I agree! Most salesman are worthless, IMHO but especially car salesman....<br />Why does no one sell cars online?<br />One factory owned dealership per town would be enough for a "hands on" look.....<br />That would lower the cost.....JK

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: Automobiles

Originally posted by txswinner:<br /> They just want to get you the best deal.

Please use a smiley when you tell a joke!

 

[QC]

Re: Automobiles

There are exceptions . . . I've had the wife call me worthless, but that's another topic <br /><br />My sales approach has always been about product knowledge and genuine enthusiasm. The stereotypical cars salesman (person) makes my skin crawl . . . With that said, I would sell cars. I think I could make a killing without being a sleazebag. Another part of my approach is that I am a representative for both sides; the company and the customer.<br /><br />Back to txs's point. You can't sell them if you don't build them, and you won't build any if it isn't sell-able. Pretty symbiotic if you ask me . . .

 

[Twidget]

Re: Automobiles

After working with 'sales professionals' for over 20 years, they have a function, but I dont have much use for them. I dont know how many times I have been called to work on something and its not on the system, but the 'sales professional' told the customer it was.<br /><br />I finally devised a defense against that sort of thing. When I arrive and am told that the salesman said the new system would shine shoes and make coffee, I tell the customer that is a new option that Im not familiar with, they should call their salesman back to demonstrate it. <br /><br />Having painted with such a large brush, there are professional sales people I have worked with. They try to do the best they possible can for the customer. Unfortunately, they seem to be the ones management doesnt like, they will let a sale slip occasionally because they are honest.

 

[QC]

Re: Automobiles

I come from a background of what are called sales engineers. Cat dealer, selling large Generator packages. These guys would be toast if the behaved the way you describe Twidget. Also, I have had engineering accuse me of making promises we can't keep. I've also accused Product Development of building stuff we can't sell. Again, there is a balance that needs to be achieved. There needs to be mutual respect. Age old conflict. If there ain't no money coming in, there ain't no development . . .<br /><br />Life in Engineering and Product development can be pretty simple if actually delivering the T-widget is not important <br /><br />Engineer: "This will operate in ambient temperatures of 60F to 70F."<br /><br />Salesman: "Ahem, errr, you just narrowed the market for this truck engine to inside my house . . ."<br /><br />Engineer: "I'm just telling you what it is designed to do"

 

[JB]

Re: Automobiles

Interesting comment. Wonder if he is selling cars made in Mexico or Canada.

 

[jimonica]

Re: Automobiles

Every one is a salesperson. People are selling and they don't even know it. We have the stereotypical salesperson like a car salesperson and we have the not so stereotypical salesperson. A Preacher for instance needs to be a salesperson to be effective. He is selling God or eternal live. The factory worker or laborer that puts a little extra spring in their step when the boss walks by maybe trying to sell his/her boss that he deserves a raise or promotion or maybe just to keep his job. The young college kids going out to a party with his/her buddies will attempt to package themselves to look the most attractive as they can to try to sell themselves to the opposite sex. Even here on iboats we have people selling their ideas and opinions. You get the point.<br /><br />Going back to the sales manager's comment, that was stupid. I would have been somewhat put off if he said that to me. If your a salesperson and opinionated, try to keep your opinions to yourself, you never know who you might offend. <br /> <br />I've worked both sides of the fence and one thing I learned is that its just human nature to believe that you've earned every penny that you make and then some, but, the other guy is overpaid, because he doesn't work as hard as you.<br /><br />I need to defend my car salesmen buddies for moment. I've seen studies were people were asked what they thought of car salespeople and they didn't think very highly of them in general. Then you asked the same person what they thought of the salesperson who sold them their last car and you get a totally different story. Something like "oh he was a good guy", "he gave us a good deal", "he gave the most for our trade", or "when we got the car home we had problem and they gave us free rental and fixed the problem, great guy". <br />Having said that, the car business does attract its fair amount of sleazy people. If you need to make some quick cash and willing to work hard a guy can walk into a high traffic, faster track store and make a quick $4,000 to $5,000 or more in a month and be down the road before he has customers coming back looking for their free CD player, new tires or the new sliding sunroof. Don't laugh, I've seen this happen before.

 

[QC]

Re: Automobiles

I 100% agree with jimonica. See there buddy, miracles do happen

 

[heycods]

Re: Automobiles

Befour thier wer car salesmen thier were horse traders, I think the reputation just passed on down Ever heard the saying "hes as honest as a horse trader"? I didnt think so!

 

[txswinner]

Re: Automobiles

I was not condemning auto sales people for their tactics, just a comment on the idea that we tend to blame labor for high cost when most of us work for a living and expect a fair wage. We have been convinced by corp America that it is not management that causes problems i.e. high cost, poor products, rather it is labor. I say bunk, Management teams of public traded corporations are not worth nearly what they pay themselves and they actually produce very little positive. They are simply manipulators of the system driven by self satisfying greed at the cost of America.<br /><br />This is from a right wing Republican former owner of a small 150-200 employee individually owned corporation.

 

[QC]

Re: Automobiles

Originally posted by txswinner:<br /> This is from a right wing Republican former owner of a small 150-200 employee individually owned corporation.

What did you pay your least skilled workers? Yourself?

 

[jimonica]

Re: Automobiles

I agree txswinner,<br /><br />I kind knew where you were going but I wanted to keep it non partisan. Labor has been the whipping boy of management and the whole country for a long time. That way it justifies hiring illegals or moving out of the country. <br /><br />I know, there goes the non partisanship.

 

[kenimpzoom]

Re: Automobiles

Originally posted by txswinner:<br /> I was not condemning auto sales people for their tactics, just a comment on the idea that we tend to blame labor for high cost when most of us work for a living and expect a fair wage. We have been convinced by corp America that it is not management that causes problems i.e. high cost, poor products, rather it is labor. I say bunk, Management teams of public traded corporations are not worth nearly what they pay themselves and they actually produce very little positive. They are simply manipulators of the system driven by self satisfying greed at the cost of America.

Please define a "fair" wage.<br /><br />Should a guy make 30, 50, 75, or 100K/yr for tightening bolts?<br /><br />I aint gonna aurgue about management.<br /><br />Ken

 

[ZmOz]

Re: Automobiles

Originally posted by txswinner:<br />He says the problem with the high cost of autos is a result of labor cost at the factory and the labor unions.

And I'm sure the fact that even base models now come with 6 speaker stereo systems, power locks, power windows, AC, keyless entry, alarms, and more sensors than a space shuttle has nothing to do with it...

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Automobiles

Missing the point. Domestic auto makers gripe is with organized labor not the laborers. If you do the research you will find the GM pays about 72 bucks and hour to every UAW worker. Now the UAW negotiated those terms and someone at GM signed off so there was and agreement. Now look at Toyota. Somewhere in the range of 27 bucks an hour and who thinks the toyota is lower in quality? GM has the second largest healthcare plan in the country behind the government. Thousands and thousands of these employees haven't turned a wrench since the 80's. The backside benefit packages are what is killing domestic automakers today. <br /><br />There isn't but a handfull of the tens of thousands of car salesmen who have a retirement/healthcare/pension plan even close to what the guys on the line have. And that is raising the cost of the product and making it more and more difficult to sell thus reducing commissions etc. These guys have to make their money on the front end of their working career and invest for the future as they don't have a cradle to grave union to oversee their retirement years. But hey, what an easy job. No way.<br /><br />With that said, I have yet to meet a car salesman that has done anything for me ever. I usually know what I want before arriving, how much it is worth and what I will pay. Then I spend an hour or so reading the fine print and correcting the "mistakes" in the contract they make that always end up in their favor. Last one tried to slip in a warranty and also tried to jack my interest rate by 4% while conveniently forgeting to provide my weekend vaction that was part of their promotion. I was fortunate that I had my red flair pen, to mark up the contract prior to purchasing. They really love me. <br /><br />Most of them know little about the product they are selling. Neat, I wish I had that luxury. Some sell flash, some concept sell, some comparison sell, some price point, The tough part is selling something that one hour after purchase loses usually about 15% of its value. It's an emotional purchase and I am just not an emotional purchaser.<br /><br />The unions did too good of a job negotiating back in the 6-7-80's and with the speed of the world market now impacting everyone in every product, they have left their benefactors twisting in the breeze. Not exactly their fault but don't blame the mfg'rs for trying to keep the doors open. If only for the salemen. <br /><br />QC did you work for Quinn Cat?

 

[QC]

Re: Automobiles

Great post POINTER. I had a salesman try and double dip me on negative trade equity once. Amazing. Honkin' slime ball. I actually still bought the truck as I needed something to tow my boat in the morning . . . priorities <br /><br />Quinn bought Shepherd just after I left in 2001. I worked at Shepherd's engine division, Power Systems Associates for 24 years. Started when I was 18. Only job other than dishwasher I ever had. I am still doing what I did for a partnership with Shepherd that I was doing when I left, I just work for the other partner now.

 

[txswinner]

Re: Automobiles

Points taken, Pointer. Might we take these items on the long term rather than today. When the unions negotiated the contracts, the manufacturers were enjoying huge profits without problems of outside competition.<br /><br />The profits were "Raped" from the corp. and not put back into the mix but taken by management. More should have been invested into R&D rather than into their pockets.<br /><br />The people that were labor back then enjoy the retirement set aside by their union. Yes we all know of the corruption in labor unions. They became big corporations also.<br /><br />Now the long-term effect of the Toyota employee payments. The figure quoted I do not believe includes the benefits including contribution to SS by the company, disability, health insurance and retirement.<br /><br />Long-term effect of no required benefits; this generation will be the first modern American Seniors with no retirement and totally dependent on someone. Who we shall see.<br /><br />What did I pay my employees. Non-skilled started at about 1.4 times minimum and then entered ojt program and progressed from there. I was highest paid employee in the company and my salary was based on a multiplier of the average wage of our entire work force.<br /><br />After one year of service we provided personal leave, I was one of first operations to use it instead of sick pay and vacation. Increased it at 5 years, 10 years and 20 years. Beside me only had 3 employees that stayed 20+ years.<br /><br />We paid health insurance for family but we kept a high deductible to maintain cost with the opportunity for employee to buy back (quite expensive, I thought). Retirement play could be joined after 18months with company and was vested at 10 years. We match 1/2 of employee investment and bonused out of yearly profit each year on a profit sharing program.<br /><br />Every dime spent was watch closely and no regrets on success or failures of which there were many of both.