Automobiles

[DJ]

Re: Automobiles

Who says the other two don't?<br /><br />My brothers experience with a Sequoia and a Mercedes ML were both disasters. I haven't owned an import outboard yet, that wasn't/isn't an anchor. <br /><br />Having been an Ex-Toyota Service Manager, I can assure you they are not without their warts.<br /> <br />Let's not all forget that labor and the union representation held guns to the heads of many US corps. over the years to get to that kind of benefit and pay package. The fault is NOT all one sided. Who is to say that imports won't shirk their retirement commitments????<br /><br />You can bet your last dollar that any import that gets wind of a union sniffing around will close that plant in a heartbeat.<br /><br />We all say they are US jobs. Well, sort of. So are Wal mart jobs. As an example, the Hyundia plant in Alabama uses NO local, or any US based services, and buys only Korean steel and won't even sell scrap to a US firm. There is more than assembly jobs in the equation.<br /><br />I look at longevity. I live in Arizona. Nothing rusts out. However I rarely see a 25 year old import on the road. But, I see thousands of 20, 30, 40 year old American stuff on the road everywhere.<br /><br />We all have old GM, Ford, Chrysler horror stories handed down over the generations. Some over 100 years. Yet, we forget the disasters of some well known imports.<br /><br />I'm just tired of Americans believing that themselves, their neighbors and fellow citizens are incapable of building a decent product. It just isn't true.<br /><br />I believe in American ingenuity and quality. Anyone can assemble something. Yet, we all forget that import dollars get exported to where R & D is done. Domestic dollars stay here. Us makers have issues with legacy and tort costs the others don't. Yet, they still produce innovative world class products. That is a testament to American ingenuity, in my book.<br /><br />Technical, quality, safety advances are not exclusively owned by imports. Not by a long shot.

 

[heycods]

Re: Automobiles

Originally posted by B.C.:<br />

Originally posted by JB:<br /> Interesting comment. Wonder if he is selling cars made in Mexico or Canada.

And is there a problem with cars made in Canada??? <br />I think not

I drove GM only pickups from 1977 to 1990 traded every 2 years, I learned early on about Canadian Trucks, they were my preference.In fact last saturday I bought a new to me 2005 Chev 4 door 1/2 ton, one of the selling points to me was it is a canadian truck. On truck I owned was from Mexico it was an 88 mod I believe, It was pure junk. I had the truck back to the dealer 34 times while I owned it with steering problems, It still pulled hard right and went down the road crocked when I traded it off. (should have been lemon lawed) The canadian trucks always seem to rattle less the paint was better ect. If I was buying a new one today I would specify Canadian.<br /> As for the cost of labor on GM -V- Toyota, Dont youall think GM has more retiress pulling from the pool than Toyata , just because of the number of workers and the number of years of mfg in the USA . Gm has retired folks drawing pensions and have been retired longer than toyata has been manufacturing in the USA

 

[--GQ--]

Re: Automobiles

KWAS, I'm afraid you opened up too many fronts. Are you positive you have enough troops to man all positions? Better slow down your Blitzkrieg before your only supply line get cuth off. Remember, "The Battle of the Bulge"? Yea the fuel ran out.<br /><br />You quoted Pointer $72/hour total package as the correct figure. It seems that number is ridiculously high. Again i think they're fiddling with the number to justify concession from the UAW. The IBEW total package is roughly twice the amount on the check ($61/$31.65). for comparison purposes, the IBEW has one of the better retirement plan of all the union outfits. The UAW total package is three and a half times the rate on the check ($72/$21.24). This doesn't make any sense. Furthermore, you did not provide any sources to back up your claim. I would like to see where all the "$72" go minus the 21.24 on the check. If my infos. are incorrect then I am being blindly mislead. I don't think this is the case. Well see for yourself.<br />

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<br /><br />Now on the second issue. In the 80's, when Cindy Loper "just wanna have fun", McDonnell was still a virgin, your Idol Mr. Lee ICAO failed Chrysler. Got a loan from Uncle Sam then gave himself and his entourage a raise in the millions. Casualties of war at the time were confined to Chrysler employees. My question to you; should irresponsible management be rewarded? Can you or I get a loan if we screw up? Where is the accountability? If CEOs can afford to put millions on their pay checks, is it wrong for workers to ask for a 50 cents increase? Can you imagine what that 50 cents can do for a family? Maybe just what little Sue needed to attend her Dance Class. The economy is based on money trading handd. A thousand employees has more spending power than a CEO at Chrysler can muster.<br /><br />Pointer made an assumption that Organized Labor "IS" the reason for the high automobile cost. If this is also your understanding then my conclusion is that you are not informed maybe due to political agenda and it shouldn't be.

 

[Kwas]

Re: Automobiles

GQ<br /><br />I know How much IBEW members make, I am retired from Local 697 in Hammond, Indiana. I get a very good pension. Being a retired union member doesn't mean that the UAW is correct as you assume. The $72. figure is from several business sources that I have read. I stated why the cost is so much, you just weren't reading. You seem to be a die hard union person that just won't face realty. GM, Ford and Chrysler are not in trouble because they are building cars in Mexico, they are still in the automobile business BECAUSE they are building automobiles in Mexico. In Saltillo, Mexico they are union workers making about $30. a day. GM makes a lot of money on each car that they moke there and that is what keeps them in the automobile business.<br /><br />As far as labor being the reason that the car companies are in trouble, it is the fault of both the car companies and LABOR. The UAW doesn't want to give up anything. I don't blame them but they are just hurting the car companies and themselves.<br /><br />Iococca didn't give himself a huge wage or bonus, the board of directors did.<br /><br />Your charts and graphs didn't address the UAW package.<br /><br />Your first paragraph was nonsense.<br /><br />I don't recall stating that I idolized Iococca, perhaps you can point that out to me.

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Automobiles

GQ,<br /><br />The 72 dollar figure includes legacy costs as well as current labor costs. Heck even the Japaneese realize the cost differential they benefit from and if they are building cars in America, with American employees, are enjoying better efficiency, lower costs, and higher quality, what exactly could be the difference?<br /><br />And if you think it is management or design issues, or workplace flow, the information and people are traded everyday like playing cards. I would like very much to know what the difference is? My neighbor works for GM, the guy across the street, his father, all his friends. They made concessions two years ago to ensure future employment. And they work at one of or thee oldest GM plant in the country. $3000 behind the eight ball before GM even starts making cars. How is this????<br /><br />Quotes from the UAW are nice but could you provide any other source? They do have a dog in this fight. <br /><br />Thanks

 

[kenimpzoom]

Re: Automobiles

I dont think there is any one reason why GM and Ford are struggling, but I certainly think unions are part of the problem.<br /><br />Same for the airlines.<br /><br />Ken

 

[--GQ--]

Re: Automobiles

KWAS, I am not a blind supporter of any union. I throw my weight behind the working Americans. Union policies happen to the mouth piece for the little guy. <br /><br />The first paragraph was meant to be sarcastic, but i forgot to add the smiley faces. guilty as charged. The total package your looking for is $33.66/hour for 2005. The chart above the second graph has all the infos. <br /><br />Pointer this may answer your question. A research was done comparing Gm and Toyota's top brass. No contest. Toyota management team rank higher in all categories. Also last year Toyota top CEO made slightly less than a mil. while rick wagoner of GM made 4 mil. along with enough perks and bonuses to support a third world country. The "American Dream" is what it is; a dream for the working class to keep working.<br /><br />I report you decide.

 

[txswinner]

Re: Automobiles

When CEO's are making $5,000,000 per year and retirement packages are up to $400,000,000, someone please explain to me value of employees and how the company's are being robbed by labor.<br /><br />By the way, my employees made a lot of money for me and for that I am grateful.

 

[DJ]

Re: Automobiles

We don't know what foreign CEO's make, nor do we seem to care. But, we support them.<br /><br />$400M? That's mid east oil baron type dollars, not US CEO.