Battery or starter...input please!

[solar7647]

I am wrapping up a rebuild of my engine, a 3.7L 180Hp Mer. and had a little issue today perhaps someone can better provide input on because I cant decide what the issue is.

A link to the rebuild thread if it helps any!
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=384800

I filled the engine with fluid and hooked up the wire harness, Gauges and key switch. I hooked these up because I also re-built them and wanted the entire system hooked up and tested before installing into the boat.

I then connected a battery (the battery I used all last season). Once the battery was hooked up I turned the Key and turned the motor over with no spark plugs so that I could verify that there was no binding any place and to make sure everything spun freely. I also did this to help "prime" the oil system a little, since its that first start and I dont have any way to pressurize the oil system.

The key worked, gauges worked, and the starter spun the motor no problem. I then installed the spark plugs, wires and supplied some gas. I turned the key and it would only turn over really slow as if the battery was dead so I changed the battery (using the one from my truck) figuring I drained it turning the engine over with out plugs but I got the same result. The second battery would start my V8 in my Chev though before and after trying the boat boat motor.

Now the way I see it I have one of two issues.
1) Both battery are no good or need charged or dont have the power
2) The starter cant turn the engine under compression and thus I need a new starter.

Now what do guys think may be the reason why it wont turn the engine over under compression but will will if plugs are removed?

 

[cr2k]

Re: Battery or starter...input please!

Did you plastigauge the main and rod bearings for clearance?
Did you check the ring end gap?

If your bearings are a little tight it will for sure drag the engine down, and may not be too noticeable with the plugs out.

Lastly is the timing set correct? If it too far advanced it will be hard to turn over trying to fire too soon.

 

[solar7647]

Re: Battery or starter...input please!

Did you plastigauge the main and rod bearings for clearance?
Did you check the ring end gap?

If your bearings are a little tight it will for sure drag the engine down, and may not be too noticeable with the plugs out.

Lastly is the timing set correct? If it too far advanced it will be hard to turn over trying to fire too soon.

The block and all the "insides" were purchased as a new long block and they where all set and tested by the machine shop. I can turn the engine by hand and its very smooth, and move freely.

The chain was pre-set by the machine shop and they test the engine and the timing of the distributor should be spot on as well.

The issue is the starter will not turn the engine with the plugs in and there is compression. Its not even getting enough to try and fire. It will only turn really slow so its not getting the kick it needs to start.

 

[cr2k]

Re: Battery or starter...input please!

Then I would guess it is the starter. You can have one rebuilt for a lot less then new. But you do need to have a marine starter in the boat. For testing you could use an auto starter.

Also GM bolt from the bottom starters require NEW bolts every time. You could use old ones for testing but you need new ones when you finally put the starter in for good.

They have a shoulder that has an interference fit in to the block to ensure alignment. The shoulder gets swedged when they get tightened.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Battery or starter...input please!

Ayuh,... It sounds to me like either the Starter, or the Wiring going to it are Bad...

 

[stonyloam]

Re: Battery or starter...input please!

FYI my starter (87,470) was acting up, so I pulled it and took it to my local auto electric shop thinking I would have it rebuilt. He said, "before you spend the money to have it rebuilt, look at this". He brought out a permanent magnate, gear reduction (marine) starter that was about 2/3 the size of my original. I said gimmme!! It went in sweet! Anyone that wrestled a 470 starter out past the heat exchanger knows what I am talking about. Best part it spins the motor like a champ! It was only about $25 more than the rebuild and worth every penny in ease of instillation. If interested I can dig out the info on it.

 

[solar7647]

Re: Battery or starter...input please!

Well I pulled the starter today, not much time for anything else. I am going to remove the solineiod from it, clean and inspect and install the solineiod on a new starter that I already have that was bought about a year ago. The new one has a bad solineiod so that is why I have to switch them. I will also be cleaning all the wires that hook to the starter.

Thanks for the input!

 

[Don S]

Re: Battery or starter...input please!

The solenoid is not your problem.

1) Both battery are no good or need charged or dont have the power

Very possible, along with loose/corroded connections or bad cables.

2) The starter cant turn the engine under compression and thus I need a new starter.

Very possible, Take your starter to a local starter/alternator rebuild shop and have them check it out. Most auto stores can't check it out properly. They just see if it turns at all and call it good.

 

[solar7647]

Re: Battery or starter...input please!

Don,
I figured the solineiod isnt the issue, I have a bit of a drive to anyplace that can test a marine starter properly so what i am going to do is try another starter.
I have a new starter that was purchased last year that has a bad solineiod in my garage, so I am going to remove the solineiod from the strater in question and install it on the new starter. I figured if it works the issue was the starter, but while I have the solineiod off I am going to clean it up and make sure all the connection on it are good.

 

[solar7647]

Re: Battery or starter...input please!

I put the solineiod on the new starter and it rotates the engine better but still lacks the power to fire it up. I am going to get new cable and try a new battery to...prob tomorrow.

 

[gill]

Re: Battery or starter...input please!

Get brand new positive and negative battery cables. You are having a voltage drop, which is drawing a lot of cranking amps but not letting them get to the starter.

 

[solar7647]

Re: Battery or starter...input please!

Get brand new positive and negative battery cables. You are having a voltage drop, which is drawing a lot of cranking amps but not letting them get to the starter.

That is what is on the list next. Thanks

 

[solar7647]

Re: Battery or starter...input please!

The cables where the issue!! Got new ones and it had no issue over coming the compresion...no start up though once i got that starter issue fixed i found that the coil is shot so I am on the quest for a new one..

Thanks for everyones input!

 

[83Evinrude]

Re: Battery or starter...input please!

Also GM bolt from the bottom starters require NEW bolts every time.

Never knew that, I had my starter rebuilt last summer and just used grade 2 bolts from the hardware store due to some corrosion on the old ones. Can I just get these from an auto store or should they be purchased from a Volvo dealer?