Becoming a spray painter?

[bonz_d]

Uncertain how to start this thread or where it's going to go but hope it ends well.

The situation is that I've got a project that I've been waiting to start with my new to me 1988 Alumacraft Classic 16. Work schedule just isn't co-operating. Overall the boat is solid and is just in need of a good makeover and freshing up. Have gone through the boat and all the systems and everything is pretty good with just a few small repairs and alterations needed.

Anyways, the boat is currantly tan on tan with a lot of dock rash inside and out and the carpet is past it's life. Also the plywood decking had been replaced and whomever did it did a horrable job so that will be coming out also. So basically the condition is that it needs decking and carpet replaced, new seats and a good paint job.

I have never used spray equipment before in my life, other than rattle cans so this is going to be a fun new learning experience for me. I've read a lot about it here and on the web and have watched numerous youtube videos so I hope I have a basic understanding of what is supposed to happen and how to set it up and operate it. I have another thread here, http://forums.iboats.com/non-boating-technical-topics/looking-air-compressor-610522.html that should bring everyone up to date on the equipment I have.

The spray gun is a HVLP gravity feed from TPC Global and there are 3 guns. A primer gun with a 1.8 tip a general gun with a 1.4 tip and a snall touch-up gun with a 1.0 tip. From the looks of it and from the reading I've done it appears to be more of a LVLP gun set because of the SCFM requirements to use it. Requires only 3.5cfm @ 40lbs.

The paint I intend to use is regular Rustoleum enamal in the interior and will be changing it from tan to a light gray. The topcoat paint for the exterior is still undecided as brand but have a couple of very dark blues I'm looking at. One is Brightsides in Flag Blue another is Perfection in Flag Blue and the other brand is Epifanes poly in Dark Blue.

Right now I have an old metal cabinet that I've stripped and primed with Rusto and am going to use that as a practice piece to try to get a feel for what I'm about to begin.

Gotta run for now the tree trimmers just arrived to take down 3 huge maples!

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Becoming a spray painter?

Let us know how it turns out ..

I think the one gun with 1.4 will do your primer and topcoat. .. but I use a pressure pot and not an HVLP.

YD.

 

[pckeen]

Re: Becoming a spray painter?

I used to spraypaint houses, and I'm now looking at painting a boat. The only thing I would suggest is try and find a large cardboard box (something where when it is unfolded, it will be about 6 feet by 6 feet. Buy a quart of some cheap house paint (get the stores' mistinted paint, or used some used paint that has been well shaken up), set it up at the same angle that your boat will be at...and paint the cardboard. That way, and for the grand price of $10, you can make your first painting mistakes on the cardboard, rather than on the boat. The paint won't go on exactly the same as the Rustoleum and Epifanes, but you'll get the hang of adjusting your gun.

Best regards,

Peter

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Becoming a spray painter?

You should read this first. How to Setup a HVLP Spray Gun
This one is helpful too...http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/techinfo/HVLPspraygun.html

The 1.8mm tip will be great for your primer if you only thin it about 10%. The last link in my signature has some good info on painting your boat with acrylic enamel paint. It talks about Majic Paint but Rustoleum is basically the exact same paint. You can use Rustoleum Pro Acrylic enamel for your Color Coats to if you use the added hardener. Lot's of guys here on the forum use it with Great long lasting durable results. The 1.4 tip works well with it. The small gun is primarily used for Touch ups with highly thinned paint that will flash quickly. Starting on the locker will be a good learning experience. What kind and size of compressor do you have? Make sure and use a good filter @ the gun. You don't want water to get in the gun. I have a very similar gun and it works well with the compressor @ 100 psi and the regulator on the gun set @ 38 psi. Then you play with the volume and fan till you get it like you want it and you're good to go. It only takes a bit till you get the hang of it. I find that it's all about getting the mix right. If the paints to thick or thin it just won't come out of the gun right but once you get the mix right, it shoots real easy and smooth. Start with a thicker mix and add thinner till it starts to flow for you. Once you get it...You got it!!!

 

[bonz_d]

Re: Becoming a spray painter?

Thanks for all the encouragement. As I'vd said I did do a lot of reading and watching, now it's time for some doing. I have an exbrother-in-law that paints custom street rods and have watched him a bit too. His work was amazing.

I will be starting with the 1.4 tipped gun and a pint of red Rusto that I was going to use on something else and I will be practicing on those cabinet doors with that. Then the rest of the cabinet is going to get the gray that I'll be using on the interior. Hopefully I'll get a feel for how much thinning I need and how fast to move. Wood I've read your stuff before and learned much. Not going to use Rusto on the exterior because they just done have a Blue dark enough.

The compressor I have is a smaller one but should be adequate for what I'm doing and the gun I'll be using. It's an older 2 cylinder belt drive. It's a 9.6cfm displacement with 7.2 scfm @ 40lbs. and 6.4 scfm @ 90lbs. and if needed I can always piggyback my 6 gallon Craftsman into it. I've also got a large 3/8 pipe coalescing filter rated at 67 scfm attached to it.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Becoming a spray painter?

You need to put a filter @ the gun as well. With Paint you need air volume. 6 gallons is not much. How many gallons is the other one? You can use the Blue Rustoleum paint and mix Black with it to make it darker. I did on my boat to get the Baby Blue I used 2 Cups of white and 1/4 cup of Blue. Worked Great.

I bet 2 cups of blue with 1/4 cup of black would darken up pretty well.

 

[bonz_d]

Re: Becoming a spray painter?

Not sure of the tank size on the main compressor but I believe it's a 15 gallon. The nice thing about this is there are no really large panels to be painted and because of the limited size of the compressor rhat is the reason why I purchased the guns that I did. Believe me I did a lot of research and asked a lot of questions before I bought these guns.

I am not as concerned about the equipment I have as I am about learning the technics and learning how to mix the paint properly so that it's not too thick or thin.

The gray that I'll be using will be mixed by me to try and get a match to the Tempress gray seats that are going in it. Mixing white and a darker gray.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Becoming a spray painter?

I'd recommend starting 1 cup of dark Gray and adding a tablespoon of white until you get the shade you want. As for the right thickness, like I said. With Color coats I start thinning @ 10% and move up to 15-20% until the gun tells me it's right. With Rustoleum I thin with a 50/50 mix of Acetone and Mineral Spirits. You'll know when it starts to flow right. You can almost "Hear" it.

 

[zool]

Re: Becoming a spray painter?

Clean yer guns thoroughly before using for the 1st time, some have traces of silicone from the factory, which is a no no...and stop for a bit if the compressor is running continuously, the heat creates moisture, even overpowering your seperator....use a new long hose, or one youre sure hasnt been used with oiled pnuematic tools..a dedicated spray hose can be your best friend....then you get to only blame yourself or the paint if things go wrong

 

[sheboyganjohn]

Re: Becoming a spray painter?

I followed the process posted by Woodonglass when I painted my trailer. Used tractor paint with hardener and a cheap harbor freight spray gun. Turned out a heck of a lot better then I ever thought my first spray job would go. My tip would be to make sure it is not too hot when you are painting and keep the gun at the right distance. Too hot and too far lead to paint going on dry. Also be mindful of your hose, it has a nasty habit of finding the wet paint.

 

[bonz_d]

Re: Becoming a spray painter?

Again thanks for the encouragement, nervous yet excited at the same time. Doesn't look like I'll be getting to ot today as the tree guys are just starting to clean up and get out.

Good point about using a new air hose, I never even thought about that! Most of the youtube videos also highly suggested cleaning te guns before use so I will probably do that tonight. Suggestions on how far I should strip it down?

I've got some nice measuring cups to start the brew for the gray paint. Will keep close notes on how I ratio it.

 

[zool]

Re: Becoming a spray painter?

Your instructions should give the cleaning procedure, but i would 1st put some mineral spirits in the cup, hook it up to air and spray that out to clear the chambers, then take off the cap, nozzle and plastic seal ring(careful not to nick the nozzle), then the adjustment screw and spring, then the needle....(carefull with the needle)..soak them all in spirits...clean the cup...then blow some air thru the openings...

After u reassemble, spray a little more spirits thru the gun and your good to go..

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Becoming a spray painter?

I'd highly recommend going to Harbor freight and buyin a half dozen of the plastic disposable cups and use them instead of the metal cups that came with the gun. They're worth their weight in gold.
5 Piece Air Spray Gun Disposable Paint Cups

 

[Teamster]

Re: Becoming a spray painter?

Someday I want to try this on an aluminum boat,......

Rattle Bomb ALL-In-1 Page

And that is all I know about painting,.........lol,..

Tagging along,........

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Becoming a spray painter?

Good point about using a new air hose, I never even thought about that! Most of the youtube videos also highly suggested cleaning te guns before use so I will probably do that tonight. Suggestions on how far I should strip it down?

You can only strip it down so much .. Air cap, Fluid nozzle, Needle and then cup.

Get used to removing these parts.

Oh.. you might want to find some 'spray gun lube'. It will not affect the spray but will help your seals out.

Your instructions should give the cleaning procedure, but i would 1st put some mineral spirits in the cup, hook it up to air and spray that out to clear the chambers, then take off the cap, nozzle and plastic seal ring(careful not to nick the nozzle), then the adjustment screw and spring, then the needle....(carefull with the needle)..soak them all in spirits...clean the cup...then blow some air thru the openings...

After u reassemble, spray a little more spirits thru the gun and your good to go..

I dont think Air is an issue with a Gravity Feed gun ( Or even a pressure pot system ). You are only flushing out the fluid nozzle ( the air cap does not get fluid through it ).

The First thing(s) you remove when breaking down a gun is the Needle or Air cap. You never remove the needle or install the needle without the fluid nozzle being in place.

For a gravity feed gun you would rinse your cup with thinner .. dump. Put more thinner in and just pull the trigger ( no Air ). It will pee out the tip. I normally remove the Air cap before I do this so I can use the pee stream to clean the cap at the same time ( over a rag that you can wipe down the body of the gun ).

After the thinner comes out clear .. then remove the needle .. then remove the fluid nozzle then remove the cup. Hand wash with rags and a small brush in all the right places.

After all the parts are clean .. put the Fluid nozzle on First ! After that you can assemble it how ever you wish. The Needle is Out First and In Last is a good rule to follow.

Lube the shank of the needle.

Another tip is to store your gun Loose. Meaning you dont tighten down any screw adjustments or caps or nozzles or anything. When you go to use the gun again .. then tighten the nozzle/cap/cup and cap to the cup.

Hope this helps some.

YD.

 

[gm280]

Re: Becoming a spray painter?

Sounds like you have some great ideas and suggestion on here already. I will state that the three gun set you purchased will do you a great job. But only use the 1.8mm tipped gun for spraying primers. The 1.4mm tip is the one for both the base paint and/or top clear coats depending on what method you use for this boat job. And for the record, adjust the pressure going to your gun with the paint gun empty and trigger pulled wide open. Then adjust the pressure at the gun for 35 to 40PSI pressure. You should have received an inline regulator with your three gun set and that will attach to the spray gun for that adjustment, but absolutely use a moisture trap attached to that regular too…it is a must! That inlet pressure will allow the gun to only see 10PSI at the cap. All HVLP spray guns, which are the only paint guns allowed to be used by any body shop these days can only have 10PSI at their caps…period! That IS the EPA standard now and while you are not overseen by the EPA, body shops are. So a lot of paint manufactures will have directions applicable for that setup. So if you buy Acrylic Urethane type paints (automotive paints) their mixture ratios will be for that gun setup. Also you can have any color mixed to match any color you can think of. Just some ideas for you… As far a practicing spraying, I’m equally sure that just a few minutes of use will yield how to spray pretty quickly… It really isn’t that difficult with the correct equipment and mixtures… If you do want to mix your own color(s), make sure you keep track of everything so you could duplicate it for future touchups if necessary… And just remember, there are no mistakes that can't be fixed...

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Becoming a spray painter?

Sounds like you have some great ideas and suggestion on here already. I will state that the three gun set you purchased will do you a great job. But only use the 1.8mm tipped gun for spraying primers. The 1.4mm tip is the one for both the base paint and/or top clear coats depending on what method you use for this boat job. And for the record, adjust the pressure going to your gun with the paint gun empty and trigger pulled wide open. Then adjust the pressure at the gun for 35 to 40PSI pressure. You should have received an inline regulator with your three gun set and that will attach to the spray gun for that adjustment, but absolutely use a moisture trap attached to that regular too…it is a must! That inlet pressure will allow the gun to only see 10PSI at the cap. All HVLP spray guns, which are the only paint guns allowed to be used by any body shop these days can only have 10PSI at their caps…period! That IS the EPA standard now and while you are not overseen by the EPA, body shops are. So a lot of paint manufactures will have directions applicable for that setup. So if you buy Acrylic Urethane type paints (automotive paints) their mixture ratios will be for that gun setup. Also you can have any color mixed to match any color you can think of. Just some ideas for you… As far a practicing spraying, I’m equally sure that just a few minutes of use will yield how to spray pretty quickly… It really isn’t that difficult with the correct equipment and mixtures… If you do want to mix your own color(s), make sure you keep track of everything so you could duplicate it for future touchups if necessary… And just remember, there are no mistakes that can't be fixed...

Depends on the Primer system you want to use as to what tip you want to use. .. as to what gun you want to use .. as to what kind of final topcoat you want to use. ...

I would suggest you follow the recommended profile and materials for whatever system YOU use.

There is NO ONE psi or cfm for Every system ..

There is NO system for mixing colors with Rusto ( as far as my conversations with their Tech Line ).

Mixing Blue with black will make a Blue .. Muddy .. as for now I have no confermation that mixing the base colors will result in anything other than a mis-mixture .. resulting in something that Rusto has not been able to duplicate with satisfactory verified results.

Its all boils down to What system your using !! .. 545 primer ( 2 part epoxy ) primer can be applied with the same topcoat gun you use.

Sand the next day and spray the next day ..

Its Up to to the System you Use ..

YD.

 

[bonz_d]

Re: Becoming a spray painter?

See, I'm still learning!

Haven't been able to get back into the garage to play yet. Still w/o power out there because we had to drop the powerline to it so the tree service could work.

Not that it has anything to do with spraying but I believe that Rusto only supplies a limited color selection for inventory and cost reasons. Not because they can't make them. Anyways with the relatively low cost of a couple pints of paint all I can do is try it. If it doesn't work out then I'm really not out much. My though was to start with a teaspoon of white with a half teaspoon of the gray and then brush it for a test and then mix from there as apposed to mixing up a pint and then throwing the whole thing away..

YD, I believe you do a lot of painting and am wondering if you have any experience with Epifanes paints and is there anywhere else to get it besides Merton's?

 

[zool]

Re: Becoming a spray painter?

Depends on the Primer system you want to use as to what tip you want to use. .. as to what gun you want to use .. as to what kind of final topcoat you want to use. ...
Its all boils down to What system your using !! .. 545 primer ( 2 part epoxy ) primer can be applied with the same topcoat gun you use.YD.

Yep, if im using DPLF, 1.4-1.6 is recommended, if a surfacer, then 1.8-2.0....depends on how u thin it

I use a Binks hvlp with a 1000cc cup for epoxy primer and AU SS topcoat...

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Becoming a spray painter?

YD, I believe you do a lot of painting and am wondering if you have any experience with Epifanes paints and is there anywhere else to get it besides Merton's?

Ive done some Varnishing with Epifane .. but not any of the paints.

For Full New coats I use Awlgrip/Awlcraft 2000 or Imron.

I use PPG and other products when Blending repairs if the boat came with those products.

Never had I come across a boat that was painted with Epifane..

YD.