big news, New pontoon lifetime floor at lower cost

[luckyjr]

Re: big news, New pontoon lifetime floor at lower cost

The higher end pontoon companies are using decks made of long lasting, no rotting materials.
Aluminum decks, etc.
Although a galvanized steel deck might be cost effective, it would be a marketing nighmare to get the public to buy into the idea of using any type of steel in a pleasure boat of anykind.

You forgot to mention A STRONGER SUPERIOR PRODUCT, In my business we called the Alum vessel beer cans because any mal function would break them wide open. I think you have example on this site. Yikes to much air, I think 3lbs 2ft dia. My company build and tested 3 standard steel vessels 10' in dia that tested to 2700 lbs sq/in with air only, no water. Must of worked or I wouldn't be writing this.

Your right, you can sell an uneducated buyer about anything. What is under the rugs does not matter. We all enjoy installing new floors. I should haven't put them on my floor because ? Hum, I can't think of anything. Oh, I guess I must be a stupid engineer that has more money than sense. lol
You lay one piece of alum of equal strength and this on the ground, 99 % would not feel or see the difference. Everyone that see these thinks its Alum because it does not weigh anything. Thanks and I will stop boring you'll.

 

[Mr Crabbs]

Re: big news, New pontoon lifetime floor at lower cost

View attachment 108100
Little humor, I was working on the boat and caught this pic




There seems to be more interest how to get your toons clean and shiney .......

Anyone can do this themselves at a reasonable cost. I am not welding the floor to the frame. I have came up with a "J" bolt design that will work really well.

LOL I hear you with the shiney toons!

Love the idea of the J bolt design. Looking forward to seeing it finished.

 

[luckyjr]

Re: big news, New pontoon lifetime floor at lower cost

I was installing the frame work for the cabin and saw something that could be improved and changed it. The outside 6" planks are now turned over to allow the cabin frame to rest more on the cross members and not on top of the floor. This also allows for a channel one both sides to drain off any water and elevates the deck floor 1.5 inches. I did find out another thing. The silcone between the planks really makes a connection and is very hard to seperate. Does anyone know how long that silicone bond should last?

I did make another change. I extended the width of the floor to 8' 6" 102" legal pull and got 8' 1/2" inside dim for cabin. I planned on square walls but this left no hang over for the roof. I slanted the walls on both side inward to make the ceiling 7' 6" which allows me 3 1/2" overhang on both sides. So when i pull it to the keys of Flordia the state boys want be giving me a hassel.

 

[luckyjr]

Re: big news, New pontoon lifetime floor at lower cost, NO DRAG by cross members.

Re: big news, New pontoon lifetime floor at lower cost, NO DRAG by cross members.

I took mine out today. Could not wait the cabin is about ready to be set on the new deck and wanted to see how she performed w/o cabin. I would like to see why I don't experience any drag by the cross members being hit by the spray and waves. I guess it is going over the cross member down the channels. I am going to try to set up a camera to video way, before I set the cabin.

 

[cemcrae53]

Re: big news, New pontoon lifetime floor at lower cost, NO DRAG by cross members.

Re: big news, New pontoon lifetime floor at lower cost, NO DRAG by cross members.

Lucky this is a very interesting design variation. I have been a union carpenter building structures with steel for years. We have decked numerous dance floors and stages with steel
with good results.

What gauge, hardness, and galvanazation level are these sections? Also are these 1 5/8 flange C sections?

 

[luckyjr]

Re: big news, New pontoon lifetime floor at lower cost, NO DRAG by cross members.

Re: big news, New pontoon lifetime floor at lower cost, NO DRAG by cross members.

void

 

[luckyjr]

Re: big news, New pontoon lifetime floor at lower cost, NO DRAG by cross members.

Re: big news, New pontoon lifetime floor at lower cost, NO DRAG by cross members.



Shes coming along. That is a 16' cabin with the roof half on. There is a 4 x 4 open in the back to get to the motor. Hot water, full bath, kitchen, two twin beds and AC. Clad Alum sheets for siding 1/8" 30. lbs. The framing steel you see, sides and roof weigh 188 lbs. I have a 3000 lbs useful load.

 

[luckyjr]

Re: big news, New pontoon lifetime floor at lower cost, NO DRAG by cross members.

Re: big news, New pontoon lifetime floor at lower cost, NO DRAG by cross members.

I used smartside $23 4 x 8 for the roof, The roof span is 7' 6" on 2' centers, I Weigh 250 lbs and it handle me with out any probelm. Normally This would take two 2 x 8s sandwiched to handle this load in wood, 4" I beam in alum, This took two 2@1/2 18ga sandwiched weight 16 lbs cost $16.

 

[Blank-N-Ship]

Re: big news, New pontoon lifetime floor at lower cost, NO DRAG by cross members.

Re: big news, New pontoon lifetime floor at lower cost, NO DRAG by cross members.

I hate to be a killjoy on this but won't you have galvanic corrosion between the dissimilar metals (aluminum versus galvanized steel)? Any screws/bolts/rivets you put through this would need to be reviewed often for corrosion. Not sure what to suggest but there are times when people add sacrificial anodes and replace those as required.

We do a metal deck but it's aluminum: http://www.leisurekraft.com/image/cache/data/alum deck-248x248.jpg

Overall it's about 100 pounds less than then equivalent marine plydeck version.

 

[luckyjr]

Re: big news, New pontoon lifetime floor at lower cost, NO DRAG by cross members.

Re: big news, New pontoon lifetime floor at lower cost, NO DRAG by cross members.

Your pontoons look very nice and I am sure Aluminum floors are a good choice for your company. The boat that you see was built by Crest in 1989. The risers are aluminum and the cross members are galvanized steel channels. After 22 years there is NO corrosion. None, not even a speck.
I am still using both with the same galvanized bolts. Looks like something for the Myth Busters. Carba Zinc 11 paint does well or drilled holes do well by using cold galv.

How much more does the plydeck weigh wet? I have some of the scrap from my boat. I think I do a test. At the same price, stronger, EZ to install, no surges due to wave action, and much lighter on the water , I wouldn't even consider using marine plywood after doing this project.

 

[coleman kayak1]

Re: big news, New pontoon lifetime floor at lower cost, NO DRAG by cross members.

Re: big news, New pontoon lifetime floor at lower cost, NO DRAG by cross members.

There IS such a thing as corrosion do to dissimilar metals. EG bolting a piece of steel to aluminum. However, this will only occur if heat or electricity. For example the ground on my toon was a (steel) screw put into the aluminum helm, and it would corrode almost yearly. As far as this application, I do not believe dissimilar metal corrosion to be an issue.

Looking good, quite interesting seeing as I am decking mine with plywood. When it comes time to do it again in 30 years, I'd like to never have to do it again

 

[Blank-N-Ship]

Re: big news, New pontoon lifetime floor at lower cost, NO DRAG by cross members.

Re: big news, New pontoon lifetime floor at lower cost, NO DRAG by cross members.

Your pontoons look very nice and I am sure Aluminum floors are a good choice for your company. The boat that you see was built by Crest in 1989. The risers are aluminum and the cross members are galvanized steel channels. After 22 years there is NO corrosion. None, not even a speck. View attachment 114888
I am still using both with the same galvanized bolts. Looks like something for the Myth Busters. Carba Zinc 11 paint does well or drilled holes do well by using cold galv.

How much more does the plydeck weigh wet? I have some of the scrap from my boat. I think I do a test. At the same price, stronger, EZ to install, no surges due to wave action, and much lighter on the water , I wouldn't even consider using marine plywood after doing this project.

Given your location I'm assuming you have no saltwater issues. Some of these people have to be concerned about that.

I remember a lengthy discussion on another website regarding this: http://www.finishing.com/271/67.shtml Certainly the original poster prefaced with "in a saltwater environment" but that's basically the worst-case scenario. Freshwater should present many of the same corrosion factors, just minus the salt that speeds the process. Another big factor is the anode/cathode size ratio. Read some more on that site I've indicated--they've got a thread on that, too.

I agree that wet marine plydeck holds a fair bit of water and makes it that much heavier. The all-weld aluminum floor option doesn't suffer from that. I think it's $1350 but most of that is the labor for all that welding. I think they're probably noisy if they're not welded together, tbh. I like the idea of a metal deck (over the plydeck option), I'd just like one that wouldn't rust.

 

[luckyjr]

Re: big news, New pontoon lifetime floor at lower cost, NO DRAG by cross members.

Re: big news, New pontoon lifetime floor at lower cost, NO DRAG by cross members.

Blank your link talks about stainless and aluminum not galvanized steel. Yes that could present a probelm. We had to overlay the ID of carbon and chrome pipe with stainless because stainless would waste away but the painted carbon held up to the chemicals.
I saw your pic but could not tell much because it was small but did look good and lots of work . The vertical spacing is really close together. Looks as if the floor requires a lot of aluminum structure and labor. Is the 1325 an adder over plywood? If not, that is a good price for well made floor. I have 650 in mine. 28' x 8.5'. very ez to install. The only hick up so far is the connection to the cross members but we know what to do next time. Putting marine carpet over $270. When I drop a tool on the floor it has a thud sound not what you would expect. I am putting rubber flashing tape at the joints to help with any sound issues. We are getting close if I don't kill myself first. Ladder gave away on me yesterday at my cabin roof. I hit the plastic gas tank is what saved me. At 70 that does some hurt.

Coleman you are right and galvanized steel and aluminum are compatible. My 22 year old boat is the example. If the galvanized chips and you don't apply cold galv there will be a rust probelm but cold galv will keep it in check. Aluminum has its probelms also, it turns brittle as it get older and requires thicker members to have the strength of steel. To me, galv steel is a superior building product because thinner members provide more strength and less metal fatigue. Aluminum cracks badly as it gets older. I had to beef up mine with some galvanized steel. When you have a ASME fabrication plant you need to have a metallurgist on staff because we dealt with so many different alloys and weld procedures.. After 40 years, I picked up a little. But it is up to the individual. I like the mix.

 

[luckyjr]

Re: big news, New pontoon lifetime floor at lower cost, NO DRAG by cross members.

Re: big news, New pontoon lifetime floor at lower cost, NO DRAG by cross members.


Connecting floor to cross members. I looked at all the options and deceided to tac weld the legs of the floors to the cross members. There are 34 tac welds at each cross member. There are 15 cross members which equals 510 tac welds. I used Super Galv to coat the welds which contains equal zinc content as hot dipped galvanizing. Solid as a rock. It took 5 1/2 hours of welding.

 

[Blank-N-Ship]

Re: big news, New pontoon lifetime floor at lower cost, NO DRAG by cross members.

Re: big news, New pontoon lifetime floor at lower cost, NO DRAG by cross members.

Blank your link talks about stainless and aluminum not galvanized steel.

Each particular metal has an index on a table. The bigger the difference between the indexes of the two metals the more active they'll be when attached together. Even stainless steel and aluminum have a difference, it's just small by comparison. When it comes right down to it you may have success on your project for the lifetime you expect it to work. I don't want to rain on your parade--I'm mostly cautioning others to one of the things that pontoon designers deal with. This is one of those reasons why we can't optimize for the least expensive materials. We have to go with the least expensive from those that don't bite us a few years down the road.

Is the 1325 an adder over plywood?

Yep. It's a lot of labor with all that welding.

I am putting rubber flashing tape at the joints to help with any sound issues. We are getting close if I don't kill myself first.

Was about to mention the sound issues with metal decks. If you're not careful about installation they can rattle/bump during operation.

 

[luckyjr]

Re: big news, New pontoon lifetime floor at lower cost, NO DRAG by cross members.

Re: big news, New pontoon lifetime floor at lower cost, NO DRAG by cross members.

Thanks for your comments Ship, Your right, you need to watch out , No bites. I could not be more pleased with the floor and structure. If I were a manufacture, I would weld the floor to a steel square tube with connection holes. Have the whole piece galvanized. Then have cross members U shaped to set the sq tube down into and bolt to. It would be fast and alot stronger and much cheaper. YOU COULD CHANGE PONTOONS ALL AT ONCE AND JUST KEEP THE TOP SECTION. HA.

 

[Blank-N-Ship]

Re: big news, New pontoon lifetime floor at lower cost, NO DRAG by cross members.

Re: big news, New pontoon lifetime floor at lower cost, NO DRAG by cross members.

Thanks for your comments Ship, Your right, you need to watch out , No bites. I could not be more pleased with the floor and structure. If I were a manufacture, I would weld the floor to a steel square tube with connection holes. Have the whole piece galvanized. Then have cross members U shaped to set the sq tube down into and bolt to. It would be fast and alot stronger and much cheaper. YOU COULD CHANGE PONTOONS ALL AT ONCE AND JUST KEEP THE TOP SECTION. HA.

Exactly. To be honest, there are things that an individual pontoon hobbyist can do that manufacturers can't get away with due to cost/time/liability, for example. If I personally had access to a garage space where I could do some welding I'd be working on a killer project myself.

 

[luckyjr]

Re: big news, New pontoon lifetime floor at lower cost, NO DRAG by cross members.

Re: big news, New pontoon lifetime floor at lower cost, NO DRAG by cross members.

View attachment 118230



red Drain on both sides running full length

yellow The increased width 8' 6"

blue floor tac welded at each intersection to ea cross member. Weld Procedure, tac weld 3/32 6011 rod. Clean weld with wire brush while hot. Spray Super Galv on hot weld. This will melt SG 91% Zinc content as equal to hot dipped galvanizing.

 

[luckyjr]

Re: big news, New pontoon lifetime floor at lower cost, NO DRAG by cross members.

Re: big news, New pontoon lifetime floor at lower cost, NO DRAG by cross members.


Cutting window opening. Would have been easier if I installed them before putting up the walls but didn't know location. After the video, this would be how I would build the jet ski pusher. I don't think a electric trolling motor would push it for very long. Where do place a gas and how do I steer it?

 

[luckyjr]

Re: big news, New pontoon lifetime floor at lower cost, NO DRAG by cross members.

Re: big news, New pontoon lifetime floor at lower cost, NO DRAG by cross members.



Siding going on, then all the doors and windows back in and set. Dried in. Opps, the supplier shipping company bent 4 of the 6 remaing siding panels
and can't get them for 3 weeks. Looks like I want make the Kemah Chirstmas boat parade.