Black Scorpion Timing?

[rgoranson]

Does anyone know how to check timing on a 2005 5.7 Black Scorpion? From the research I've done, I need some kind of electronic tool to put the engine into base timing mode and I need to check that it is set at 8 degrees BTDC at 1800 rpm's.

Do you know where I can get a tool without buying a full code scanner? I took my engine in when it ran poorly at the end of last season. They gave it a tune up and said they adjusted the timing. I think they did it wrong. It's still running rough. I have all new secondary ignition parts and believe this should be the next step. I've had it to a mercruiser shop that says they can't find anything wrong on their computer. They said they don't touch timing. They worked on it for 8 hours with no diagnosis. Any idea where to buy the tool to put it in base timing mode? A link to a vendor site would be helpful.

Thanks

 

[Don S]

Re: Black Scorpion Timing?

You can't set or change the timing on the Black Scorpion. The distributor is nothing more than a switch. The ECM controls everything. DO NOT mess with the distributor unless you read the OEM manual first.
Head up to the Adults only sticky, locate manual #31 and read the ignition section.

Really need a Mercruiser serial number for your engine for any more information.

 

[rgoranson]

Re: Black Scorpion Timing?

I read manual #31 ignition section. Thanks for the info. I have a Seloc repair manual that is similar. Mercruiser serial number on my engine is
0W390691

The issue started last year. We got a wakesurfboard in June and took it to the lake. The boat ran great for half the day. Then at slow speed under load the boat started making noises you could hear out the back. It sounded a little like a harley davidson. I took it immediately to a local non mercruiser shop. They said the distributor was very corroded. They replaced the cap, rotor and plugs. They said the computer didn't pick up and issues. I was worried about the noise. The compression tested all 8 cylindars at 165 psi. The boat came back and the noise level was reduced, but you could still hear the problem. I called them and told them I thought the timing might be off. They said their computer said everything was fine.

This year, I got it summerized and on the lake, the noise started getting louder again. I called a mechanic that could come to the lake (different than first mechanic). He said my intake manifold pressure was reading weird. Something around 12 and that he thought my TPS and MAP sensors were causing a problem. I repalced both. MAP pressure read 18 last time he was out and he said it was working fine. TPS at an RPM around 1500-2000 was reading 2.5 volts, so he thought that was good. While we were testing the boat, he said "wow, it's popping a little like you have water in your fuel". This continued. I replaced the fuel filter, and emptied the fuel water seperator about 5 times. I poured the fuel from the FW seperator into a glass and have never seen any water. This mechanic went in for some surgery and I had to take it to another mechanic.

Finally I found a mercruiser certified mechanic. He ran his computer - no problems. He checked the plugs that were put in last summer and said some looked a little lean. The plugs were not recommended by mercrusier, so we replaced them with approved plugs. He was worried about possible valve issues and possible injector issues. He cleaned the injectors, and at the request of mercury did a drop down test. This drop down test was to check the valves. If a valve was a problem, he said he could pull a plug wire and look for RPM drop and if the drop was less on one cylindar, it could be a tuliped valve. I think he started at 2000 rpm, and all cylindars were between 1530 and 1570 rpms on drop. Mercruiser said it's probably not a valve.

I took the boat back to the lake after all this and still had the same problem. I asked the mechanic to come to the lake and I invited a friend who is a boat and auto mechanic. They both said it sounded like a misfire. The mercruiser certified technician called mercruiser again and the final diagnosis was that I need to send my ECM in for recalibration. I asked him if I should run it and send the ECM in over the winter. He said that's what he would do if it was his boat.

I decided to check resistance in the spark plug wires since they hadn't been replaced. With my ohmeter set at 200K, it read between 13 and 18 resistance on each wire. The longer wires had 18 and the shorter wires around 13. I assume this is such small resistance that it is negligable. The cap on my motor is different than the one in manual #31.

I've become pretty educated over the past several months on EFI systems and general engine mechanics. Not sure where to go from here. The boat sounds good if the throttle remains on. Translated from wakeboarding, load it up and it is always on which sounds better. When the throttle is reducing, it has a rumble like a harley that you can hear. The fuel system has been looked at by me and by the mercruiser guy. The mercruiser guy says no water or bad gas problems. The problem is intermittant. At specific RPM's it is not always present. I don't know if that has to do with weight, air temperature, or what.

Any help anyone can give me would be appreciated. I feel like I've hit a dead end. Not sure if the mercruiser people are blowing me off with this ECM recalibration idea or if that might actually fix something.

Thanks for the help.

 

[Don S]

Re: Black Scorpion Timing?

Page 4C-17 of manual 31 should be your distributor, is it?

 

[rgoranson]

Re: Black Scorpion Timing?

I opened Manual #31 again, and can't find section 4C page 17. Section 4C of manual 31 is on charging systems, and I only see 14 pages. I checked section 4B which says ignition systems and it only goes to page 13. In section 4B on page 10 there is a disassembly picture of a distributor. The cap and rotor are both different on mine, and mine has no module. Am I looking in the right place?

Thanks for your responses.

 

[Don S]

Re: Black Scorpion Timing?

Wonderful, seems I have a newer version (June 2003) than everyone else (2000)

 

[Don S]

Re: Black Scorpion Timing?

Ok, here is page 4C-17

 

[rgoranson]

Re: Black Scorpion Timing?

Attached is a pic of my distributor. Hope this works. I had to shrink it quite a bit to get a file size that would work.

 

[rgoranson]

Re: Black Scorpion Timing?

Yes, your pic of page 4C-17 looks like my distributor. The only difference I can tell is that my cap is held down with 4 screws, not 2. Everything else looks the same.

 

[Don S]

Re: Black Scorpion Timing?

I'm supposed to be able to see that ittty bitty picture?

 

[rgoranson]

Re: Black Scorpion Timing?

New to posting on forums. Not sure how to get a larger pic to post with maximum file size of 19kb.. Your picture is the correct distributor..

 

[Fun Times]

Re: Black Scorpion Timing?

I read manual #31 ignition section. Thanks for the info. I have a Seloc repair manual that is similar. Mercruiser serial number on my engine is
0W390691

The mercruiser certified technician called mercruiser again and the final diagnosis was that I need to send my ECM in for recalibration. I asked him if I should run it and send the ECM in over the winter. He said that's what he would do if it was his boat.

It will only take merc 24 hours max to reprogramm your PCM once they get it and it will be nexted day aired back to the dealer, And you could 2 day it there to them. This should not take longer then a week max to have them do this, If they said to reprogramm it, You should do it.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Black Scorpion Timing?

Attached is a pic of my distributor. Hope this works. I had to shrink it quite a bit to get a file size that would work.

If you want to post a picture, it works well to use a hosting service like Photobucket or similar.

Then you simply post the link to the picture using the link above

Cheers,


Rick

 

[rgoranson]

Re: Black Scorpion Timing?

It will only take merc 24 hours max to reprogramm your PCM once they get it and it will be nexted day aired back to the dealer, And you could 2 day it there to them. This should not take longer then a week max to have them do this, If they said to reprogramm it, You should do it.

The mercruiser mechanic told me that it would take up to 6 weeks to get the ECM returned. He said Mercruiser would re-calibrate it for free. I guess I don't understand how an ECM could get out of calibration. I'm really worried that I begin next season with the same issue at this point. Are there some other things I should be checking? or should I send it in and cross my fingers that it isn't returned late in the season?

 

[JustJason]

Re: Black Scorpion Timing?

i've been reading this thread and i'll answer this question.

Does anyone know how to check timing on a 2005 5.7 Black Scorpion?

Its easy enough to check. You need a timing light with advance (digital is better than an analog knob type) a small straight edge, some white out, a remote starter, and a screwdriver... along with some basic wrenches.

1. disable the ignition system
2. pull #1 spark plug
3. use the remote starter button and put your finger over the plug hole and "bump" the motor untill you start feeling compression.
4. stick a screwdriver down the plug hole and very slowly spin the motor BY HAND untill you feel the piston come right up to the top, this is top dead center (TDC)
5. with a straight edge make a line with the whiteout on the balancer anyplace you like. Then make another line on the block (usually the timing cover) that lines up with the first line, you have to get it near perfect.
6. put it all back together and start the motor, hook up your timing light to #1 plug wire. Dial back your timing light until your 2 lines line up, this is your base timing. Run the motor up to 3K, dial back the light again, that is your advance timing.

Check what you have against what the ECM is telling you. There is a few degrees when the piston is at TDC on the swing, so your numbers may not match exactly, not unless you can get your hands on a degreeing wheel and a dial indicator. But this should get you close enough for govt work. If your getting a 2 or 3 degree difference your probably OK. If your out more than 3 in what you get vs what the ECM says then either a sensor is telling the ECM to fire at the incorrect time or the ECM itself is getting screwy.

 

[Fun Times]

Re: Black Scorpion Timing?

The mercruiser mechanic told me that it would take up to 6 weeks to get the ECM returned. He said Mercruiser would re-calibrate it for free. I guess I don't understand how an ECM could get out of calibration. I'm really worried that I begin next season with the same issue at this point. Are there some other things I should be checking? or should I send it in and cross my fingers that it isn't returned late in the season?

As long as your dealer is on top of things in getting the PCM pulled off the engine and getting it shipped out the same day, Say a monday morning You should have it back to you by next monday from merc, Probly friday. You could call mercruiser customor support your self to make sure, And tell them what you said here about the time frame your dealer said and see what they say, They might need to call you back after they talk to one of there teck guys to confirm this time frame, Also you will need your engine serial number when calling. As for the pcm going out some times that just happens, Same with our cars. Also as long as you have merc helping you out with this you need to stay on top of it or time will pass and you may be on the loosing end if it turns out to be a big problem and merc needs to try other stuff out, Then also all you will be doing is wasting this year with a bad running engine and then next year also because most people let it sit all winter and just deal with it next year when they remember they had a problem, If you don't let merc help you out this year with it. And next thing you know next summer is half over also, I see that a lot. So call mercruiser your self and see just so you know. Well either way good luck to you.

 

[rgoranson]

Re: Black Scorpion Timing?

Thanks for the posts. I will try to get the ECM sent out in Mid-August and hope that it comes back quickly. I'll try to post any information that I get from Merc. Hope it starts running better when I get it back..

Thanks again.

 

[rgoranson]

Re: Black Scorpion Timing?

I called Merc customer service. They said that since my issues was logged under Tech support, my mechanic would have to call to get a timeline on ECM recalibration. I had my mechanic call and they came back with 2-3 weeks. I'm pulling the ECM tonight to send to Merc tomorrow. I'm crossing my fingers that I will get it back soon.

Thanks for everyone's help.

 

[Fun Times]

Re: Black Scorpion Timing?

I called Merc customer service. They said that since my issues was logged under Tech support, my mechanic would have to call to get a timeline on ECM recalibration. I had my mechanic call and they came back with 2-3 weeks. I'm pulling the ECM tonight to send to Merc tomorrow. I'm crossing my fingers that I will get it back soon.

Thanks for everyone's help.

From what I have always been told It really should not take that long, But if it does at least you are trying your best to solve your problem this year so hpoefully you can enjoy next year knowing you Did your best. Hope it works out for you, Let us know when it comes in and if the engine works better for you or not, Good luck to you with it.