Bought boat in July - hasn't been out of mechanic's since (on # 3 now) repairs $$$

kin402

Cadet
Joined
Aug 14, 2010
Messages
10
Hello all.

As always, thank you for your support. Still dealing with our very old, so NOT water-ready boat... (please see previous posts)


Mechanic 2 says he has done all he can. Recommends another mechanic (which will make 3)...

Mechanic 2 rebuilt our carb. with a kit and says that now the engine "purrs like a kitten" and will even take gas (where before it would cut out), BUT...

when he does to put it into gear -- it dies. He believes it is likely a sensor or something with the gear, but this has become more diagnostic in nature than he feels equipped to address. He's recommending Mechanic 3.

Please help. We've now spent more in labor and repair costs than the boat cost.

What should we do? What is wrong with this boat? : ( Jane
 

Todd157k

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 12, 2010
Messages
114
Re: Bought boat in July - hasn't been out of mechanic's since (on # 3 now) repairs $$

Jane,
I've read your previous posts and would like to offer you some help in trying to get help. Several people have asked you direct questions about the boat and they have been no answers. Also, I didn't see any pictures of problem pieces you're talking about. It would be far easier to diagnose the problems if you take some pictures and post them on here. You can put pointers or red circles on the problem part you need help with. Also, use the "Thread Tools" and subscribe to your threads so you can keep up with the conversations. These forums are GREAT, but no one can help when there isn't enough information.

1. Carb varnish. If it has sat for years, the carb needs to be rebuilt and dunked. You may not know what this means, but any automotive mechanic does. It will never work correctly without it no matter how much "additives" you use.

2. Gasoline. If it has sat for years, have it drained and cleaned. Once again, it will never work right unless you do. "Running it through" as suggested in one of your threads is ok if it has sat for months... but not YEARS.

3. Bellows. Take some pics of it and post it. Someone on here is probably an expert on it... if they knew what you were talking about.

4. Engine block. Take a couple pics of that too. It may be that $5 of JB weld will get you by fine. Might not. But without seeing exactly the crack and where it is.. no one knows.

I'm not trying to be an azz, I just want you to get the help you need and not be frustrated.
 

fishrdan

Admiral
Joined
Jan 25, 2008
Messages
6,989
Re: Bought boat in July - hasn't been out of mechanic's since (on # 3 now) repairs $$

BUT... when he does to put it into gear -- it dies. He believes it is likely a sensor or something with the gear, but this has become more diagnostic in nature than he feels equipped to address. He's recommending Mechanic 3.

(from earlier post, Mercruiser 188)

Hmmmm, sounds like the lower shift cable is bad. It's binding while being shifted into gear, and the binding is causing the shift interrupt switch to kick in and kill the engine. The shift interrupt switch is supposed to momentarily kill the engine while coming OUT of gear, it causes the engine to stumble so the gears can un-mesh. The switch isn't supposed to do anything while shifting into gear, but if the lower shift cable is bad it will kill the engine's ignition.
 

kin402

Cadet
Joined
Aug 14, 2010
Messages
10
Re: Bought boat in July - hasn't been out of mechanic's since (on # 3 now) repairs $$

Todd157k,

Duly noted... I'd be very happy to take and post pictures, but I haven't had my boat in posession since August 1 (apart from the drive from Mechanic 1 directly to Mechanic 2) -- no stopping even for a soda (let alone a photo).
: (

We will be picking up the boat tomorrow (presuming that we come up with the $$ to pay this Mechanic as well) and haven't decided if we'll be taking it to Mechanic 3 or not. I'll be bringing the boat home first and can take as many pictures as is helpful -- I'm not sure how to upload them to this site (but I can check into that easily enough).

Thus far we have replaced the carb kit and the water pump (as well as caps on the upper gearcase).

I'm not sure what questions that have been asked that I haven't answered. I've sent return replies to anyone who has sent me messages within 1-2 days at the most. I check my messages just about every day.

I did notice for the first time today actually that people can go back to my old posts and add input to those threads -- something that I hadn't realized. To those people then, I do apologize.

I truly value the support and help that I've received from these forums --
yours included.

j.
 

Todd157k

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 12, 2010
Messages
114
Re: Bought boat in July - hasn't been out of mechanic's since (on # 3 now) repairs $$

Posting pics is easy. Sign on to Photobucket or any pic hosting site. Then post the link here. (if you're still not sure, find someone that has posted a picture, click on "Quote" and see how they did it)

Take a picture of the bellows with a hole. Lets make sure it's the exhaust bellows.

Take a picture of the engine block crack / repair.

a couple of external "overall" engine pics can help too.

After a few people chime in, you'll have an understanding of what to ask the mechanic, where to go for each problem, and what the heck their telling you.

Divide and Concur... then you can go out and have fun.
 

chaparall villain 2

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 15, 2010
Messages
129
Re: Bought boat in July - hasn't been out of mechanic's since (on # 3 now) repairs $$

i say amen to that ... nothing against boat mechanics because i use them when the tools to repair cost more than the repair but they have to make a living so whether its diagnosis or repair they are gonna charge you big bucks to do what they do .... a little help from the forum and some parts that dont cost a fortune and a lot of repairs can be done at home without the high cost of a boat mechanic. troubleshooting alot of times is just a time consuming thing so help these guys help you and save some big bucks in the process ... could just be the shift cable is out of adjustment too so i would first check to see if it dies going into just forward or both forward and reverse thats a start .. and make sure if you run it to use a muff and water or you could have more costs .... good luck
 

erikgreen

Captain
Joined
Jan 8, 2007
Messages
3,105
Re: Bought boat in July - hasn't been out of mechanic's since (on # 3 now) repairs $$

Okay, first, don't panic :)

What you're experiencing is actually pretty normal for someone getting a first boat, and especially someone getting a first boat that's an older pre-owned model.

Take a deep breath, let it out, and sit down and think. Figure out how much you can afford to spend to fix the boat, and when. If paying for the boat will cause you to short your family or miss some bills, then hold off a bit until you're more comfortable.

Adjust your expectations; Older boats, especially ones that haven't run in a while, can cost money to get running again. Boats in general are expensive. The only boat that's ready for the water is one that's brand new and has also had a dealer or experienced boater prep it and take it to the boat ramp for a test run. All other boats need work.

Got that? Ok, on to your problems...

As has been said, the problem with the engine killing when it goes into gear is most likely due to the shift interrupt switch being triggered. This is a little electrical switch plus some hardware on the top rear of the engine on a little platform. Two shift cables go there, one from the shift lever and one to the stern drive. When you shift, the hand lever pushes on the upper cable, which then moves part of the shift interrupt mechanism, which pushes on and moves the lower cable.

When that happens if the lower cable doesn't move, the mechanism the cables attach to pushes the switch. The switch stops the engine firing... normally this is enough to let the drive come out of gear. If the drive comes out of gear the lower shift cable is released (because it can now move the drive gears, where before they were locked together) and the switch is immediately released and the engine continues running.

If your lower shift cable (which runs from the shift interrupt switch area to the stern drive and connects there to a shaft) is worn out or corroded then it won't move easily. If that happens, the shift interrupt switch gets pressed for a long time (relatively speaking... it's a few seconds) and the engine shuts down.

The lower shift cable getting corroded is actually very common in this type of sterndrive. I had to replace mine on a boat from 1981 just last summer.

The good news: your engine is working. If the mechanic has had it running (hopefully on muffs, so he's got cooling water going in) then it's probably ok to use. When you get it, pull the dipstick out and look at the oil on it... if it looks like a milkshake, then you have a real problem. Most likely it's going to look like dirty oil, in which case the engine is ok, and the crack you see in it just needs a little plugging, which you can do with JB weld or another really good product called marine-tex.

If the mechanic rebuilt the carb, that's a good thing too. A clean, well adjusted carb will let you avoid many headaches.

More good news: If our diagnoses are correct, then your shift interrupt switch is present and working. This is good, because you can't buy a replacement for it, you'd have to scrounge parts from a salvage shop or ebay, or else buy Mercruiser's upgrade kit to use the new style switch, which would cost $120 or so, not counting labor.

Without the shift interrupt switch working, the boat would be hard to use, so that's a good thing to have.

If the lower shift cable is bad it'll need replacement. Now, you can keep paying mechanics to do this stuff, but it sounds like you're in the same boat as the rest of us, with not a lot of money to spend on that stuff.

So my recommendation is that you get the boat home, then take some pictures of it and post here for our comments, and consider doing the work yourself. It's not actually very hard (mostly annoying sometimes) and you'll save a bundle. The bulk of cost for having a mechanic fix your boat is labor, and for this type of drive unit (Mercruiser sterndrive) that can be a lot.

Many of the folks here do all their own work, and many of us weren't mechanics to start with. You can do it if you choose. Probably you'll need a weekend plus a couple evenings to do the lower shift cable. There are threads here about it, if that turns out to be the problem then we'll walk you through it. A good source for the parts you'll need is either iboats (www.iboats.com) or ebasicpower (www.ebasicpower.com).

If on the other hand you want to pay a competent mechanic, what you really want is a dealer of that brand of drive (Mercruiser, part of Mercury Marine) who does service. They may be a little more expensive than the mechanics you've had do work (or not) but I can guarantee they'll know the drive more than the mechanics you've dealt with so far. Let me know if you need help finding one, here's a link to a web page with the dealer's listings:

http://www.mercurymarine.com/find-a-dealer/

(make sure you check off "Mercruiser" and/or "Mercruiser Premier" on the left side in the SERVICE section). Put in your zip code and write down the dealers it finds, then call them and tell them your boat model and drive (It's a Merc 888 engine/drive combo). They should be able to give you a quote to replace the lower shift cable and bellows, probably without seeing the boat, although they will want to have a look before creating a written quote. Expect something like $500 minimum to replace the shift cable, most of that is labor. The bellows are the same or a bit more, depending.

Do post pics of the boat, engine and drive, especially the top rear of the engine, and we'll tell you what to check and how to do it. We'll also walk you through checking the rest of the boat for any problems. But it sounds like you're on your way to having a running boat, which is good.

If you don't seem to get a response here for some reason or you need a fast reply, feel free to PM me, that sends a notice to my personal e-mail right away.

Do try to answer all the questions people ask here, and do post some pictures. Use photobucket (www.photobucket.com) as an upload site, then click the picture icon when posting here (little yellow box with a dot hovering over a mountain in it) and put in the "direct link" to the pic on photobucket, that'll insert the pic here. Post if you have problems.

Above all, relax and welcome to boat ownership :)

Erik
 

CheapboatKev

Vice Admiral
Joined
Oct 4, 2008
Messages
5,813
Re: Bought boat in July - hasn't been out of mechanic's since (on # 3 now) repairs $$

Erick...

Well done amigo;)
 

hootytooty

Recruit
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Messages
2
Re: Bought boat in July - hasn't been out of mechanic's since (on # 3 now) repairs $$

Before you do any thing else get a repair manual for your engine and drive. This will make things easier for you if you decide to do it your self. I do this for a living and own a boat myself. Please do post pics. The lower shift cable is definately suspect. Once you locate it and know which one it is remove it from the bracket and try to shift it by hand while some one is spinning the prop. THis cable should move with almost no resistance. If it is hard to move you have a problem either the cable is bad or, and this is a possibility, the shift shaft on the drive itself is bent. An easy check to do as you will have to pull the drive to change out the cable any way. Again get a book after market is fine.

A word of advice to any prospective new boat owner, get it inspected before you buy it. Its cheaper in the long run.


Joe
 

zbnutcase

Commander
Joined
Sep 19, 2009
Messages
2,055
Re: Bought boat in July - hasn't been out of mechanic's since (on # 3 now) repairs $$

All I can add is it is quite common to spend more than you bought the boat for to get it seaworthy, its why a good deal on a boat rarely is. And it sounds to me you have yet to have a MARINE mechanic, work on it, first mistake. The guy on the corner barstool who thinks he's an expert because he rebuilt a couple of lawnmowers is the last person you want touching it.
 

erikgreen

Captain
Joined
Jan 8, 2007
Messages
3,105
Re: Bought boat in July - hasn't been out of mechanic's since (on # 3 now) repairs $$

Not to discount what Joe(hootytooty) said, but I want to add a bit.

For any boat costing over $2000 or so I'd get it inspected.

For most of the boats people on this site buy, all the inspector will tell you is that the boat "needs a lot of work" and "it's too old to be worth anything". Most of the folks here disagree... a boat bought for $500 in working shape is worth quite a bit of fun, and if restored or fixed up can last for years more fun.

Even if you pay for an inspector, they can miss a lot. Three friends of mine are currently driving a 46 foot boat up the Tenn-Tom waterway that one of them just bought. Full inspection by the old owner disclosing problems, then a bonded marine surveyor's report on it, and they still had to stop for exhaust system repairs twice already in a week.

In short, if the boat is costing you a lot, pay to get it checked out (by an inspector and mechanic). But for most boats here, you need some knowledge of your own beforehand or be willing to work on it after the buy or pay someone else to. Hence, the large community we have here :)

Erik
 

LAC_STS

Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 1, 2010
Messages
895
Re: Bought boat in July - hasn't been out of mechanic's since (on # 3 now) repairs $$

If you want help about your boat, this is where you want to be.

These guys have helped me so much here. But you have to be willing to work on it yourself, take pics and upload them, and help these guys troubleshoot.

I saw you were asking at one time for people local to you to come help. I thought some people had sent you PMs. Do you know how to check them?

Right up top where it says "Welcome, (your screenname)" click on Private Messages and respond to any in there.

I see it as you have 2 choices.

1 is to get a camera and take a bunch of pics of your problems and post them here. Then let these guys tell you what the next step is and then go out and do it. You will learn alot and you will save tons on mechanics bills. By the time your done you will probably know more than mechanic 1 2 and 3.

2 is do what was advised here and go find a Mercruiser DEALER. They will sell Mercruiser drives and engines. They will have CERTIFIED Mercruiser mechanics there. They are the ones who you will want working on your boat. They will cost more but say you would have went to one in the first place. You would have paid more for mechanic 1 (the Mercruiser mechanic) and wouldn't have had to go to 2 and 3.


I dont know you or how inclined you are but I would say at least try #1. (Do it yourself).

Get into it and let these guys help you. Once you get the process figured out (post pic and description of problem, get advice, apply advice to problem, post back, apply advice again, post pic and detail your repair, etc, etc) You will get good at it. Then move on to the next problem. Everyone here sounds like they really want to help you.
 

Wingnutt

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jul 16, 2003
Messages
255
Re: Bought boat in July - hasn't been out of mechanic's since (on # 3 now) repairs $$

If the mechanic who did the carburetor just threw a rebuild kit in it, the carb needs to be rebuilt again, this time have it done right! First and foremost, this means having a competent mechanic who is familiar with that carb doing the work. Secondly, ALL the parts need to be properly cleaned, this means putting them in the proper solution tank, and if necessary, taking a wire bit through each of the internal passages to get all the gunk out. Since the carb is apart, this is an excellent time for new float(s), needle and seat. Go ahead and replace all those old springs too, most need to have a specified tension, and after 30+ years of use, I doubt they have what they are supposed to. Go ahead and do a complete tune up if you haven't already done so. This will give you a known baseline to work from.

Believe me, I know all about bringing an old boat back to life. I've been working on an '88 cruiser for a year and a half now, and almost every trip out I am finding new problems. Thankfully, each time the new problems are smaller and easier to fix than the previous ones were. And this is in a boat that was "supposedly" a just put gas in her and go boat!
 

HTownws6

Cadet
Joined
Jul 27, 2010
Messages
23
Re: Bought boat in July - hasn't been out of mechanic's since (on # 3 now) repairs $$

I have just about come to the conclusion that if you want to get into boating, you must be able to work on your own boat. Or buy a brand new one.
 

Todd157k

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 12, 2010
Messages
114
Re: Bought boat in July - hasn't been out of mechanic's since (on # 3 now) repairs $$

I have just about come to the conclusion that if you want to get into boating, you must be able to work on your own boat. Or buy a brand new one.

or have buttloads of cash to throw away. <-- supporting the economy ;)
 

HTownws6

Cadet
Joined
Jul 27, 2010
Messages
23
Re: Bought boat in July - hasn't been out of mechanic's since (on # 3 now) repairs $$

Well, I can think of many other way I would rather supprt the economy than give it to my nearest boat mechanic. :D

topless clubs come to mind for one..
 

erikgreen

Captain
Joined
Jan 8, 2007
Messages
3,105
Re: Bought boat in July - hasn't been out of mechanic's since (on # 3 now) repairs $$

Any more news on the boat?
 

erikgreen

Captain
Joined
Jan 8, 2007
Messages
3,105
Re: Bought boat in July - hasn't been out of mechanic's since (on # 3 now) repairs $$

Nothing new? - bumping one more time to see if we can hear anything back.
 

ewenm

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Mar 30, 2005
Messages
187
Re: Bought boat in July - hasn't been out of mechanic's since (on # 3 now) repairs $$

i find this bizarre, don't you people have certified marine mechanics, do you just have a bunch of clowns hanging up signs and starting marine businesses.

why i ask is because out here in the colonies (Australia) we would not tolerate this attitude, sheesh you take your boat to a mechanic, he fixes it and then you pay him, where does all this attitude "oh i don't feel qualified to take it any further" come from,

are they not factory trained and do they not have technical resources to call on.

lets face it there is no rocket science in boat motors, in fact they are mostly 1950,s technology

i simply don't get it.

i have a factory trained and certified marine mechanic look after my boat and his pride in his abilities would never allow him to through up his hands and say to hard, get someone else

what a crock of poo.

ask around for a qualified mechanic and ask him to sort it out, when done water test it and if satisfied pay him

end of story
 
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