Briggs 8hp Advice?

[marlboro180]

So my Dad's Toro 8-28 ride on mower gave up the ghost.
It would not start for him, even after a jump from a car battery (he kept going up in batteries to jump it)

When I got over to his place he had it jacked up and a 3' cheater bar pulling on the crank from pulley nut. He said he has gotten it to turn over partially with the bar but it was really hard and "sounded funny" .

I proceeded to pull the spark plug out, and gas came pouring out. Then I checked the oil , presuming he already did, but had not. It was full nearly to the top with gas. hmmmm, that's not good.

Float valve was stuck and hydrolocked the motor, then he yanked it with a big bar few times! What other damage to look for?

I got it to my place and took the head off and the cylinder wall are pretty badly galled. Looks like it could be bored out, but here's my question : Is it worth the cost ? What else does one look for ?

I've seen the overbore rebuild kits for $50, then a bore and rehone. Replacement motor (new is 400) used 75-150.

The last one I rebuilt was a 18hp twin for our case 648, which was a lot of fun, albeit fairly costly, and had to as it is an obsolete motor.

I know there's a few small engine guys around here, what's your take?

8hp briggs "Power Range" model 195707, type 0121-0

 

[windsors03cobra]

Re: Briggs 8hp Advice?

Heh my dad has the same mower and that thing has mowed a TON of grass in years and has been a great mower.

I would rebuild the carb and put the head back on and see what she does.
For the money your going to invest in it what can you get ? For twice the rebuild/repair money he can ride an low end MTD ? LoL

We all gotta decide when its time to throw in the towel on an item, its usually pretty easy to tell if an item is worth fixing or worth junking.


Good luck with the Briggs & Scrapiron.

 

[Cofe]

Re: Briggs 8hp Advice?

I would advise to try as was stated above first.
If it smokes real bad, or sounds real bad, here is a link to look at....http://www.smallenginesuppliers.com/shop/briggs-vertical.html

 

[marlboro180]

Re: Briggs 8hp Advice?

Thanks Windsor,

That mower does cut pretty well for an 8 hp. He finds it most useful not for cutting grass , but for towing around his 4 wheel wagon full of tools around. This little mower fits through his gates and is very handy. Hes' having a harder time getting around these days and I guess its more "manly" to drive a little tractor than a scooter. Post polio syndrome is getting the better of his ability to get around. Heck, I leave a tractor in my driveway for him when he comes to visit so he can scoot around.But I digress...

I pulled the engine tonight and got it on the bench to have a better look.Yuck. Scored and galled cylinder walls. Haven't split the case yet but it sure doesn't look good. Took me a bit, but got the flywheel off ( had to make a puller plate) and the ancillary parts off. Heading back out to the shop just to satisfy my curiosity now that my belly is full. Thanks to the Admiral Hoping to find something to salvage

Cofe- thanks for the link. Looks better that the one's I found.

 

[waterinthefuel]

Re: Briggs 8hp Advice?

Not worth repairing. Junk the mower. You couldn't sell it for what you would have to put into it so junk it. I repair lawnmowers as a side hobby. I know what's worth repairing and whats not. If the engine isn't good, 99% of the time its not worth messing with. It would have to be very new, less than 5 years old, to be worth it with a bad engine.

Nope. Push it out to the road and hang a "take me" sign on it and let someone else deal with it. You can get a good used mower for what you'd put into trying to repair that one.

 

[roscoe]

Re: Briggs 8hp Advice?

Not worth repairing. Junk the mower. You couldn't sell it for what you would have to put into it so junk it. I repair lawnmowers as a side hobby. I know what's worth repairing and whats not. If the engine isn't good, 99% of the time its not worth messing with. It would have to be very new, less than 5 years old, to be worth it with a bad engine.

Nope. Push it out to the road and hang a "take me" sign on it and let someone else deal with it. You can get a good used mower for what you'd put into trying to repair that one.

What a load of hooyee.

We put 28 years on our Snapper 30 mower, then re-powered and have gotten 9 years more ... so far.

It has nothing to do with what you could sell it for (unless you are flipping them) but it does have to do with the quality and usefulness of a particular piece of equipment.

Marlboro180, if you needed a 14 hp, I could help you out. Have one from my Murray mower, which disintegrated in 8 years, leaving me with just the engine. Now, I too, have a Snapper like my fathers.

 

[ThumbPkr]

Re: Briggs 8hp Advice?

I have seen some great deals on Craigslist in the farm and garden section.Real good prices on engines from time to time.They are mostly horizontal shaft engines this time of year in my area (snowblowers) but it might be worth a peek occasionally.Ron G

 

[Splat]

Re: Briggs 8hp Advice?

Go to your local ope repair shop and see what they have used lying around.

All the way up to a 16hp single cylinder will have the same footprint, as well as the same crank diameter. It would be a simple bolt on. That's how I would do it.

We used to sell used 10hp for somewhere around $150 installed.

Also if your not cutting grass with it you could always go down to a 6hp, also will be a direct bolt on as they all use the same block. (Hint hint... The carb and muffler do the majority of dictating what hp a small engine is. )

Bill

 

[v1_0]

Re: Briggs 8hp Advice?

Not worth repairing. Junk the mower. You couldn't sell it for what you would have to put into it so junk it. I repair lawnmowers as a side hobby. I know what's worth repairing and whats not. If the engine isn't good, 99% of the time its not worth messing with. It would have to be very new, less than 5 years old, to be worth it with a bad engine.

This makes a lot of sense if you are in a business. In that case, you are in it to MAKE money (profit).

If you are not in a business, and looking to repair - then likely you are in it to SAVE money (choose the more benefitial option).

These are entirely two different equations!

Save not only includes the short term, but the long term as well - total cost of ownership, it is called. You compare the cost of repairing what you have to buying new/used replacement models. The point is, you have already committed to spending money on one option or another.

So, to answer your question - you will need to determine the costs of your options (repair, replace with new, replace with used). Then determine the benefits of each... This should give you a good comparision and help you choose.

Of course, there is an emotional aspect to any decision that can't be objectively qualified, but is a factor.

 

[john3931]

Re: Briggs 8hp Advice?

A .020" oversize piston is available and .020" undersize rod is available for that engine. Piston and rings would run about $60.00. Rod is $50.00. Gasket set $20.00. As long as your valves, guides and seats are good, it may be worth your while. You know what you have for your money.
The pricing is rounded off from B&S. You may be able to find aftermarket cheaper.
Of course you will have machine shop service on top of that. Will the cylinder clean up and .020?

 

[Cofe]

Re: Briggs 8hp Advice?

Then there is sentimental value to add to the equation. No one wants to give up a good snapper!

 

[marlboro180]

Re: Briggs 8hp Advice? update, sorta

Re: Briggs 8hp Advice? update, sorta

Thanks for the advice thus far guys. I know I'm committed to spending money somehow, but I guess I was a bit hung up on which way to go. I am not going to put a new motor in it , not justifiable for the age of this machine.

Could get a used rider for less, though every one I've found has been junk, rusty, beaten ,cracked, too big or otherwise not going to work out. The one I'm working with is actually in good condition except the motor so the decision is to keep it.

I've got leads on several used motors, in a few different configurations and conditions ranging from 75-225.

I opened up the motor and the lower end looks pretty good. Looks like the hydrolock problem was secondary. It looks like the motor ate something, however I could not find any chunks of ferrous metal in there to do the resulting damage. Only lots of shiny aluminum flakes were found. It would appear that the motor was run out of oil?

The lower end looks pretty good, no excessive wear and smooth bearing surfaces. The top end, however , is another story. piston is peened at the ring groove lip thus the compression rings are frozen.

The piston skirt is a bit wider than at the ring (lands?) area when measured across the wrist pin ,

skirt is 2.971 wide measured across wrist pin , 2.953 with the wrist pin. Kinda oblong.

Ring area is 2.952. Bore, by the way, is 2.973.

Out of curiosity, is this normal ?

Here are some pics for the curious. Hopefully this works,,,,trying to figure out the Photobucket thing......

or here:
http://s892.photobucket.com/albums/ac121/marlboro1_photos/Toro with Briggs/?start=0

 

[Cofe]

Re: Briggs 8hp Advice?

Chunks of aluminum can be from the piston, cylinder, or the rod.
Mike out the rod journal on the crank to make sure it is round. Also mike the rod. I suspect the rod journal is egged.

Looks like no oil, or gas in the oil caused this. + age +air cooled.

 

[marlboro180]

Re: Briggs 8hp Advice?

Chunks of aluminum can be from the piston, cylinder, or the rod.
Mike out the rod journal on the crank to make sure it is round. Also mike the rod. I suspect the rod journal is egged.

Looks like no oil, or gas in the oil caused this. + age +air cooled.

Yeah, I'm thinking the leaking carb float valve was present well before the major event. Gas is not the greatest lubricant....and Dad doesn't check the oil as he should.
"What do you mean it's overfilled now? It was low the last time I checked it"

Just measured journal for egging, looks to be w/in .001. Rod bearing in w/in .002. Measured 30 degree increments.

Checked rod et all for missing " chunks" none present.


Or maybe I'll just buy this mower instead

Complete but does not run. I suspect that a carb. cleaning is in order. The tractor came with the house, but I never stopped using the push mower.

Best offer take it home!

Think I'm gonna start a folder for this fun junk found...

 

[a70eliminator]

Re: Briggs 8hp Advice?

Now that old B-10 would be worth putting some money into, I have one just like it except it's the Allis Chalmers just before they sold out to Simplicity.

 

[windsors03cobra]

Re: Briggs 8hp Advice?

Bore the jug, get a new slug and ring along with some gaskets and put'er back together and run it for another 15 years.........
Whats that cost ? $200 ?

 

[Snatantedly]

Briggs 8hp Advice

Briggs 8hp Advice

Mine has the big plug and the cross over #s are for Champion XEJ8. This is the cross over # from Autolite. I got it from my local Orilley store. It is about 20 though. As for the pump, was it vaccume or mechanical? I have never seen a mechanical for briggs.

 

[dolluper]

Re: Briggs 8hp Advice

Re: Briggs 8hp Advice

Hows the cyl bore....will a fast honning clean her up or are there grooves in her

 

[marlboro180]

Re: Briggs 8hp Advice

Re: Briggs 8hp Advice

"As for the pump, was it vaccume or mechanical? I have never seen a mechanical for briggs." I presume you are referring to the fuel pump---- it is gravity fed. Very low tech.

Hows the cyl bore....will a fast honning clean her up or are there grooves in her

Waaaay too much scoring to hone it out. Aluminum bore. yuck.
Gave the case to a shop to punch it out and then put the oversize piston in .
Then I'm gonna put it in one of the two riders that I'm picking up tomorrow. 2 Gilsons for $90 My wife is gonna kill me when we have 4 rider mowers and a tractor in the yard! Gotta sell some right away...

On the original Toro 8-28, I picked up a 11.5 hp I/C ( iron sleeved )to re-power it. Got it shoehorned in there last night, it is about 2" taller at the head, whichnow hits a support. Just gotta fab up a new seat support. Hey , another excuse to fire up the welder.I

 

[windsors03cobra]

Re: Briggs 8hp Advice?

I think Gilson was made in WI ?