Calling all Austrailians// kiwi phil?

[FLATHEAD]

After reading the post about the gun ban down under I got to thinking.<br /><br />I've always wondered how the guns were confiscated and how it started. Were all guns registered before this happened? Were certain types of guns banned first? Did people voluntarily turn them in? Did anyone tell them to come and get them barrel first? The few Aussies i've met didn't seem like the type to just say "here sir, please take all my guns away". Can you enlighten me please?

 

[Kiwi Phil]

Re: Calling all Austrailians// kiwi phil?

Guns are not exactly banned here, some are, some arn't.<br />The new laws that came in about 5 yrs back made every gun owner apply for a licience and they also had to belong to a gun club. <br />Then every 5 yrs you are sent a multi paged form to fill out, -bit like a medical.I got mine a month or so back.<br />I think I have my facts right.<br />Now that is a very small part of the complete story.<br />When all these liciences etc were introduced they made it illegal to own under any circumstances certain types of rifles. Automatics have never been allowed. Semi auto's were outlawed, and I think this included semi auto shotguns too. <br />If you owned one of these, you had to hand it in, and you were compensated with a pay out. All these weapons were destroyed.<br />If you have bolt action rifles that were permitted, then they had to be stored in "gun safes" that have to meet a pecific standard and design. If you get caught not doing this, the penalties I understand are severe and the Courts ruthless - no excuses accepted.<br />I owned a 1918 .303, (bolt action of course), and 2 bolt action .22 (1 was a long barrel single shot BSA - given to me by Grandad - a real corker!!) <br />I was allowed to keep all 3, but had to keep paying this annual fee to this rifle club that I never used. <br />So when I got that medical type form I mentioned above, I took all rifles and amo and handed them in to the cop shop for destruction.<br />Hand guns are a definite no-no. Security firms do have armed guards, the cops carry the Glock.<br />Some criminals are still armed, and there are gun related "incidents", but on the whole, not too many.<br />I agree they have disarmed the wrong people in the community.<br />These changes all came about following a massacre in Tasmania when some jerk with a M16 wiped out many holiday makers. I recal there had been 2 or 3 other massacres prior to that.<br />I personally believe that given time this society will be pretty much gun free. Then everybody can go around stabbing or clobbering each other to death.<br />I think I have all the facts right.<br />I do know of one clown who refused to do anything, so he put his semi's in grease and buried them in a PVC tube. Now he is too scared to dig them up, as if he gets sprung he knows he is straight off to the slammer. I think he is waiting for an amnesty so he can hand them in.<br />Personally I have faith this system will be better for us in the long run, and coming from me, well that is quite some change to the attitude I carried 25yrs back.<br />If this discussion gets going I will try and find out more infor.<br />Cheers<br />Phillip

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Calling all Austrailians// kiwi phil?

Amendment II<br />A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.<br /><br />All I can say Phillip is God Bless America! They sure have you all brainwashed. Hook, line and sinker. <br /><br />Makes me real sad for all of our beloved, deluded cousins.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Calling all Austrailians// kiwi phil?

Originally posted by Flahthead:<br />The few Aussies i've met didn't seem like the type to just say "here sir, please take all my guns away".

Flathead, I agree with you. I would have thought that the Aussies would have been the last of the lot to just lay down their arms but they just crumbled like so much tissue paper. It just blows me away.

 

[Kiwi Phil]

Re: Calling all Austrailians// kiwi phil?

You may not of understood exactly what has happened Down Under with firearms.<br />The Gun Lobby here had the same views as you, and they were asked just what they wanted guns for. They could hardly say they wanted guns so they could shoot people who threatened them in some way. All they could really come up with was: they would use guns for recreational sports hunting, recreational target shooting etc.<br />When the legislation was introduced, it protected those people by allowing them weapons for those specific needs, namely bolt action rifles and double barrel shotguns.<br />They outlawed the automatic rifles, semi automatic rifles and semi or pump action shot guns, and of course hand guns (except for those who specialise in pistol shooting at a range)<br />The result is, if you follow a sport, be it duck shooting, deer stalking, rifle range club, then you can freely follow that sport. However you do need to be licienced and your weapon registered.<br />Personally I hunted (deer/duck shooting) from the age of about 17/18yrs, and because I was quite a good shot, my preferance was a .303 rifle for deer, and a Beretta Pump action 12 guage for Ducks and Canadian Geese.<br />I never came home with less deer that the companion with a semi auto rifle: I just never missed with my first shot.<br />The Gun Lobby here really protested over the introduction of the legislation, and tried hard to find a political party to attach themselves too, but none would oblige. There was a general election shortly after, and the changes in the gun laws had absolutely no bearing on its outcome.<br />Those with extreme views in the gun lobby just disappeared like a bunch of pathetic little *****'s.<br />Those that enjoy hunting etc, continue to do so.<br />The only thing that has changed is: auto and semi auto weapons have been taken out of the scene. Owners and their weapons are licienced/registered.<br />For the life of me, I can not understand why you would need an M16, AK47 or SKS for, let alone a hand gun.<br />Don't feel I am winding you up guys, because I am not.<br />I would also have to ask the question: America would be the last Country in the developed world not too have control over weapons in its communities? Maybe I am wrong.<br />Cheers<br />Phillip

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Calling all Austrailians// kiwi phil?

Kiwi Phil, I will not go into all of the well worn, but valid arguements, for personal, unlicensed firearm ownership, just suffice it to say that we are both decendants of the same King George III.<br /><br />Whether or not you "can not understand why you would need an M16, AK47 or SKS (all semi-autos of course) for, let alone a hand gun", every last jot and tittle in the American Constitution was put there, by our quite brilliant Forefathers, in recognition of the nature of all past humanity and governments.<br /><br />The rest of the english speaking world, as well as all of western civilization would be doing itself a favor to study that history, project it onto the future and adhere to the Second of "inalienable rights" so well spelled out in the American Constitution.

 

[Toad2001]

Re: Calling all Austrailians// kiwi phil?

C'mon boomyal, its an old question thats never been answered. The amendment was written prior to revolvers being invented let alone AK 47's. Where do you draw the line at reasonable possession? Rocket propelled grenades? Anti aircraft missiles?

 

[JoeW]

Re: Calling all Austrailians// kiwi phil?

Toad,<br />Technically one draws the line where ever the government draws the line. The second amendment was established to protect the individual from their own government. The founding fathers weren't so much afraid of King George III as they were afraid of themselves. <br /><br /> "Better to have one tyrant 3000 miles away than 3000 tyrants one mile away"<br /><br />Again, technically, whatever weapon the government may own, so should the individual.<br /><br />Practically, I agree that this doesn't make sence. But that's only because most of us today tend to trust our government somewhat more than our founding fathers did. We certainly trust the government more than a kook with a rocket launcher. That doesn't mean, however, that we fully trust our government.

 

[Peter J Fraser]

Re: Calling all Austrailians// kiwi phil?

Hi All,<br />Our situation in New Zealand is similar to KiwiPhil in Australia but I can still own any semi auto and or pump action guns in any quantity i want with the basic license. At this point we do not have to register our guns unless you have the necessary endorsement to hold MSSA's and hand guns.<br />My license is good for 10 years and then I need to renew. The renewal criteria is strictly controlled by the police with interviews with my self, my wife and 2 referees.<br />The system works but we don't need anymore regulations placed in the road.<br /><br />Good luck,<br /><br />Peter<br />So as you can see

 

[Ross J]

Re: Calling all Austrailians// kiwi phil?

peterf, well said mate.<br />I've held a firearms lisense for many years and recently my daughter passed her lisense. The authorities came and inspected my gun safe and passed it. She'll join a fine band of hunters soon and enjoy shooting in safety, learnt from experts in the field.<br />I think our authorities have got it right and fully endorse the act as it stands. It works well and permits me a range of firearms all of which get used. I have no problem with my "rights".<br />Ross

 

[Kiwi Phil]

Re: Calling all Austrailians// kiwi phil?

Boomyal, I am not trying to wind you up or be disrespectful in any way, but why on earth would you ever want a weapon such as a M16 or AK47 in your home.<br />For a very short while, I carried what I believed to be an M16 (we called it an Armalite) and it was fully automatic or semi automatic. The dinks had the AK47 and I distinctly recall that being fully automatic.<br />I also had a 9mm Browning side arm issued to me.<br />The only purpose these weapons ever served was killing people.<br />As an ex hunter, I have no objection to individuals owning and using firearms. It is a great sport. (for the Kiwis reading this, I hunted the Dart and the Reece off Glenorchy - brilliant).<br />Anyway, I can not equate sportsmen needing fully automatic weapons or side arms.<br />Today on commercial radio, the clowns hosting the show (it is a bit of a comical show) seized on a snippet of news just released that said in Maryland, USA, some gun shop was giving away a free gun a day for a year, as some sort of promotion/competition. It also said that for every 100 people in USA, there were 90 guns of one sort or another, which these clowns concluded that 10 Americans out of every hundred were letting the side down.<br />Before jumping on me, I did say earlier that the Australian Guns laws were changed following a particularly nasty massacre in Tasmainia, but the rights and freedoms of the Hunter have been protected. They just want to relieve the one-eyed loony element of their weapons. And they did, and we all think it is great.<br />Cheers<br />Phillip

 

[Carphunter]

Re: Calling all Austrailians// kiwi phil?

This sounds great. First they make all gun owners register their guns, then they start confiscating the ones they don't like. Haven't we heard this story before.........say, in Germany. Makes me damn glad to be an American. You guys can hand in your guns, and roll over and play dead if you want, but I assure you that won't happen here.<br /><br />You say you see no reason for me to own an automatic weapon,............. I say why? I am not a criminal. I'm not gonna shoot anyone. If I want an automatic weapon for recreational use, then that is my right. Its amazing how brain-washed some of you are. You think just because its an automatic weapon, that its the best choice for killing people. Let me guess, thats what they say on T.V., so it must be true. I have a 7mm Remington Magnum that I could effeciently shoot something at 400 yards. Much more potent then the weapons you say we shouldn't have.<br /><br />I have a Marlin .22 that holds 18 shots..........guess what, its considered an assault rifle. Does a great job on them squirrels.<br /><br />I carry a Kel-tec 9mm for personal protection. You know what, We don't live in a Disney movie. There are people out there that would kill you just to take the 5 dollars out of your wallet. I have a right to defend myself and my family from these people. God as my witness, I would defend my family to my death. Thats what all parents and spouses should be willing to do. Its your job to protect your family. If you are not willing to do that, then you shouldn't have a family.<br /><br />I wish I didn't live in a world where I had to carry a gun to protect my family. It would be nice to be able to go anywhere and know that my family and I are safe. But, the world is not like that. There will always be criminals in our society, and you can either become a statistic, or you can defend yourself. The guns aren't the problem, the criminals are. You all use the guns as a scapegoat, but who talks about the idiots commiting these crimes............Nobody. They blame the guns. ...............Well, my "gun" just may save my families life one day, I hope that it doesn't happen, but I refuse to let my family or I become a statistic.<br /><br />These idiotic "laws" only affect the "law-abiding" citizens. Think about it, and remember it.<br /><br />Well said Boomyal, well said.

 

[JGREGORY]

Re: Calling all Austrailians// kiwi phil?

Well said Carphunter. Personally I'm a one shot one kill guy I also have a 7mm Remington Mag. Scoped BOLT ACTION that I could do alot more damage with at long range than a fully auto weapon. I have no need for a automatic weapon but to each their own. <br /><br />What's next licensing baseball bats because there is a surge in bludgeoning.

 

[mellowyellow]

Re: Calling all Austrailians// kiwi phil?

sorry to get off subject here a bit, but I am<br />curious if any member on this sight has EVER had<br />the need to either brandish or use a handgun for<br />protection of themselves,family or property???<br />curious,<br />M.Y.

 

[JGREGORY]

Re: Calling all Austrailians// kiwi phil?

Nope can't say I have ever needed to. Thank God. <br /><br />I don't go looking for trouble and if push came to shove and some one broke into my house they can have whatever they what provided they leave myself and family alone. (That's what insurance is for.)<br /><br />NJ has very strict rules regarding self defense you have to be in imminent peril of life and limb before you are allowed to act. <br /><br />My rule is family to the bedroom they can have almost anything else but come to the second floor and you will get a load of 00 buck in your face.<br /><br />Had a cop friend give a self defense firearms class. And he made a few good points.<br /><br />1. With the NJ laws he say move yourself to a safe location. ie. bedroom if you can't get out of the house.<br /><br />2. His choice of defense weapon was a shotgun. His view was a it's a great close in weapon and the big muzzle is enough to make anyone think twice.<br /><br />3. Call the cops and tell the intruder that you are doing so. <br /><br />Once you cross the line of involving a firearm there is no turning back and you had better be prepared to follow through. It's like Nuclear weapons you have them to keep the peace and hope you don't need them.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Calling all Austrailians// kiwi phil?

I'm not sure where your question is headed MY but statistics show that the knowledge that we may have one makes it all the more likely that we won't need to use it/brandish it.<br /><br />Furthermore, to take the gun ownership arguement into the 'necessity for self defense' justification is a immaterial. There are a variety of reasons one may choose to own firearms. It is just not any of Uncle Sam's or Uncle Mate's business why I want to own/posess one or many. Guns are beautiful things in and of themselves. I am a law abiding citizen and it is a simple flat out waste of my governments time and money to try to put me a box where I have to answer to them. It serves absolutely no purpose. You see the government is here to serve me not the other way around. It is not necessary for everyone to hold the same view or desire to own firearms. It is necessary that I should, as is thankfully the case, not have to justify my reasons to a paternal government.

 

[mellowyellow]

Re: Calling all Austrailians// kiwi phil?

assume that is a "no" boomyal?<br />MY question has nothing to do with the legal<br />questions about gun ownership since I am in<br />favor of our "right" to bear arms. I just find<br />it curious that soooooo many people keep a loaded<br />pistol at home for protection, when the odds that<br />you would really need it are so astronomically<br />low. seems to me that a lot of people are scared<br />but there really is no good reason to be?

 

[JGREGORY]

Re: Calling all Austrailians// kiwi phil?

MY, Just thought I would clarify because of your statement..<br /><br />

it curious that soooooo many people keep a loaded<br />pistol at home for protection

I will NEVER keep a loaded weapon in the house. All the guns are locked and the ammunition is in a different place in the same room locked. While I do advocate the shotgun for home defense I also have a handgun gun is up high where little fingers can't get it and the Magazines are loaded but also in a different place. But can have the 2 together in 5 seconds. To keep a loaded gun in the house is insane. Especially if you have kids.<br /><br />My wife thinks I'm paranoid when I find out that the stepdaughter has had friends over and never told us and I rip her a new one.<br /><br />My responce to her is yes I'm paranoid thequestion I always have am I being paranoid enough. I don't think I could live with myself if something where to happen by "accicdent". <br /><br />Oh yeah, there's no such thing as accicdents it's properly call CARELESSNESS!!!

 

[mellowyellow]

Re: Calling all Austrailians// kiwi phil?

JG, didn't mean to imply anyone was not taking<br />proper care and safety precautions. just don't<br />understand why so many people are so scared???<br /><br />sorry to step on yur thread Flathead, I should<br />have posted a separate one titled "why is everyone<br />in this country so scared?"<br />feel free to get back on track guys...<br />regards,<br />M.Y.

 

[JGREGORY]

Re: Calling all Austrailians// kiwi phil?

NP, MY. I don't think it's people being scared. I think it's more along the lines of an ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure. Also I believe it's a reaction anybody feels if they are being threatened. In this case by the liberal gun control lobby. <br /><br />Just my $.02<br /><br />Sorry flahthead.