Calling Experts, Hull damage/repair (PHOTOS)

[25thmustang]

Re: Calling Experts, Hull damage/repair (PHOTOS)

xxx

 

[BWT]

Re: Calling Experts, Hull damage/repair (PHOTOS)

Lots of Q's here, but lets start with determining the cause for some of the gelcoat issues. I may be off on my logic here, but out of curiosity is there any damage topside (on the decks)? There is no doubt that the gel stress that your seeing is from pressure points from the bulkheads; in my mind there is only a few causes for this.

- the bulkheads are cut too tight from the manufacturer. Given the age of the boat and the fact that these cracks don't look 20+ years old I don't seriously suspect this, but had to throw it in so I have 3 points to talk about :facepalm: (yes, I'm trying to be funny)
- the bottom of the bulkheads have rotted out (or what they are resting on has rotted out) allowing them to shift down (bulkheads are typically V shaped (obviously not that exaggerated but tapered so that the top is wider than the bottom). If they have shifted lower the sides will be forced against the inside of the hull causing this type of result in the gelcoat.
- There has been some significant weight or pressure topsides forcing the bulkheads down (similar effect to my explanation above). Possibly snow loads? (although I see you're in CT); I don't know if the boat has always been in that kind of region...

I know logic says that the obvious area for possible damage is below the waterline, but if the boat had been dropped, impact, etc the bulkheads would have popped up giving more of a gap between the bulkhead and hull... Very interesting.. Like YD said, once the cause is determined the gelcoat repairs can be dealt with from the outside of the boat (which is good This post has my curiosity peaked and I'll be following to see what you find...

 

[Cadwelder]

Re: Calling Experts, Hull damage/repair (PHOTOS)

Well, I too will follow this one closely, as I am very interested in the cause. I can do the repairs with no problem, but am very interested in the cause. I didn't want to make any repair recommendations until the cause was determined.

YD, I am the one that recommended you look at this thread, as you are a pro and expert, you are just being modest (not sure why ).

BWT, your expertise also is obvious, between the two of you we should all learn something here.

CW

 

[25thmustang]

Re: Calling Experts, Hull damage/repair (PHOTOS)

xxx

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Calling Experts, Hull damage/repair (PHOTOS)

I will tell you again..these cracks are from the Inside ..

Star cracking like the pics submitted are from the Inside..

You Do NOT get starburst cracks like that from the Outside..

If you had an impact or compression damage from the outside it would look more like a " Moon or half moon cracks "

Look at where your bulks are hard up against your hull.. there is NO way this damage was created from the Outside.

Unless your not showing compression damage around the area....

YD.

 

[Friscoboater]

Re: Calling Experts, Hull damage/repair (PHOTOS)

I will tell you again..these cracks are from the Inside ..

Star cracking like the pics submitted are from the Inside..

You Do NOT get starburst cracks like that from the Outside..

If you had an impact or compression damage from the outside it would look more like a " Moon or half moon cracks "

Look at where your bulks are hard up against your hull.. there is NO way this damage was created from the Outside.

Unless your not showing compression damage around the area....

YD.

Yep, what he said. It came from the inside pushing out. I showed the pictures to a guy here in town and he thought the same thing I did. The boat was dropped or fell off storage supports and the keel pushed the bulkheads out against the hull.

 

[BWT]

Re: Calling Experts, Hull damage/repair (PHOTOS)

That's what seems puzzling to me; if it had been dropped, etc and shifted the bulkheads, they would have shifted upward taking them further away from the hull (not causing this kind of gel damage). On the flip side, if the bulkheads have shifted down that would then create the pinching/pushing and stress points from the interior (like when trying to fit a tapered plug into a fixed hole; as the plug is lowered into the hole the tighter it gets). If the bulkheads and support underneath are showing no signs of rot, then possibly they were not tabbed correctly (still allowing them to slip/be pushed down). I may be off base with this logic, but it's the only cause/effect scenario that makes sense to me.

 

[25thmustang]

Re: Calling Experts, Hull damage/repair (PHOTOS)

xxx

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Calling Experts, Hull damage/repair (PHOTOS)

That type of damage isn't uncommon when bulkheads come loose, they can come loose the first day it hits the water or 30 years later, but once they do the hull starts flexing far more than it did before and things begin to crack.

Like others have said, check the wood for rot, make sure the wood isn't touching the hull, and then reglass the bulkheads in place.

After everything is solid again you can fix the cracks from the outside. They may be just in the gel coat, but more likely will extend into the laminate a little, if so you will need to grind a little deeper and lay some glass in there.

Again, check everything else at least twice before thinking you are finished, or that this is the only damage. You don't want to get it back on the water only to find out other items needed attention too.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Calling Experts, Hull damage/repair (PHOTOS)

Now that the kids are at grams house and wife is doing a 3k fundraiser and I am seeing the light of day through this late launch season .. let me devote some time to this thread. ( gonna be long winded )

Alright some photos from this evening before a NASTY rain storm rolled in. Once again the captions of each photo appear below it.

This photo is a very close up of the scar that runs across the "cracks" located on the starboard aft area of concern.

This photo depicts a close up of the bulkhead as it is attached to the hullside, directly behind the worst area of the outside.

This photo is showing how the bulkhead and hull tabbing has come apart.

This final photo is what I believe has caused the damage seen on the forward most area of concern on the starboard side. From what I can tell this is directly inside from this damage point. I'm unsure why the company would have this in place, putting a corner PAST the edge of the "bulkhead" (although a non structural one).

After Yacht Dr. has posted that he doesn't feel these are cracks, now I wonder what they could be?

A finger nail will catch the cracks and you can see them, but they do have an outward projection and are very "thin".

Thanks again for everyones responses

I always Knew they were cracks.. I was tongue and cheek about " not being able to see them " as it looked like someone tried to cover them up.

The tabbing pic with your fingers under it..that could have been a factory lousy job .. and never delaminated but was like that from day one. ( Its unlikely that the tabbing started to fail on the outside edges..they fail at the bulkhead/hull joint outward,so sticking your fingers on the outside of the tabbing does not mean much )

That little Block that has its radius against the hull.. I think your right about it being the problem on that location. ( its not the Company..its the installer of that block.

Remove any points of contact between the hull and the structure of bulkheads.

If the tabbing ( that has the obvious cracking in the seam ) is bonded well to both the bulkhead and the hull..then there is no need to " Grind " off all the glass. You just have to scuff/prep well for New glass ( over the existing tabbing ).

With regards to the boat talking a hit to cause the damage, I too would expect there to have been damage elsewhere.

It is also possible the boat experienced some nasty weather and this happened in the water?

If it truly appears to be a cosmetic issue that can be fixed from the outside that would make me a lot happier. I'm still looking for ideas/suggestions.

I doubt the boat took a hit..your right about seeing damage from the outside ( if there is no visible damage to the outside then the problem is from the construction from the inside ) .

Yes.. it is possible that the boat took some hard waves that Compressed the open areas between the ( Improper gap/hard point ) bulkheads resulting in cracks like this.

The cracks on the outside can be repaired in a Semi-cosmetic way. You still have to grind and put a few layers of 1.5 oz mat/poly/gelcoat/sand/buff application. but its in a flat zone which is substantially easier then complex curves and requires less tools and experience. ( I will go more into detail later ).

I'm thinking the bulkhead needs to be tabbed back no matter what. The glass then needs to be fixed. I'm still holding out on it not being into the core.

I dont think its the core. Yes the bulks have to be tabbed back ..but as stated above on how much prep is involved is going to have to be determined by you or more pics without your fingers in there .

I was told it appears the boat may have been lifted incorrectly, which might have caused the hull sides to flex in and create the damage. Does this sound possible, or reasonable?

From the location of the damage..I would say not completely out of thinking..but not likely.

If you had Improper strap lift points..you would expect to see stress cracks around the rub-rail where the straps were.
But I guess its possible.. ( not likely ).

I still have to investigate further.

Yes .. investigate as much as you can..if you see something " out of norm " snap and post a pic.

Now..for further detail and step by step ( from your pics and information given to us up to this point ) .

1. Determine any hull/bulk hard points and remove them.

2. Determine any Failed tabbing ( Failed tabbing does not mean grind..you can normally rip them out with your hand and vise-grips ). If there bonded good then Dont mess with them..just prep/sand and re-tab.

2.a. Tabbing .. after the the area has been prepped then pre-cut 1.5 oz mat extending as far up and down on the bulkhead as needed and 5" on both bulk and hull. Pre-cut 2-3 layers of 1708 slightly smaller then the mat. Dry fit your layers to make sure you dont have to cut some slits in the glass if it needs to bend to conform on the curvature of the hull/bulkhead. Acetone wipe your area. Wet your glass tabbing on a piece of wax paper. First 1.5 oz mat ..then your 2-3 layers of 1708..then your second 1.5 oz mat on top of that. Bubble roll that until its air void free with these http://www.jamestowndistributors.co...2106&familyName=Bodi+Econo+Line+Epoxy+Rollers You can get cheaper ones look.
Carefully pic up the whole tabbing lam and place it..use your hands ( with latex gloves..get a box of them and keep them handy for this ) to secure the tab. Peel the wax paper off slowly..then using a brush and the roller remove all voids in the glass lamination.

* USE A RESPORATOR AT ALL TIMES INCLUDING CUTTING GLASS *

3.Outside repairs on them cracks.. Grind All of the gelcoat and one layer of Glass ( its just mat your grinding off and nothing structural ) extending at least 2" past the cracks. Wipe with acetone. With 1.5 oz mat start glassing. It will probably take 2 layers of mat ( more like 3-4 depending on how far you grind ). Bubble roll your 2 or so layers of mat to make shape. * Make sure you have enough glass on there to when you grind/shape and fair you dont have Any low spots .. we dont like bondo or fillers here *

4. Grind/sand/fair your glass to the shape of the hull.

5. Prep/sand 6" around your glass work with 220G paper. Wipe with acetone..mask and tape off your area.

6. Again wipe with Acetone ( be careful if you used Blue masking tape..you can wipe that into the repair area )

7. Spectrum color http://www.spectrumcolor.com/ might be able to send you a QT of gel ( I dont know if they changed now to sell to the public .. give them a call ).

8. Mix your gel with 1.5% MEKP ( 10cc/QT .. or 5 cc/pt .. or 2.5 CC/8oz and 25%ish MEK ( NOT MEKP !! but MEK reducer )

9. Spray with a preval http://www.preval.com/shopping/preval-spray-system

10. Let dry .. Sand gel with 320 or 400 to start..then a bit of 600..then a soft over all with 1000 or 1200 ..then buff

...

..

I dont normally do a full blown Step-by .. but you did take the time for pics and helping us on your updated thread ( some should take note of how to start a thread and keep updating )

If there is any questions just ask away .. its why we are here. Peeps for peeps hehe..

YD. ( phew )

 

[25thmustang]

Re: Calling Experts, Hull damage/repair (PHOTOS)

xxx

 

[DeepBlue2010]

Re: Calling Experts, Hull damage/repair (PHOTOS)

Mustang,

I never heard the "I" word in this thread!! Did you check with your insurance to see if this kind of repair is covered?

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Calling Experts, Hull damage/repair (PHOTOS)

I still want to have a local glass guy take a look

That is a very smart move on your part .. Tell us what he says ..

And DB has a point on the Insurance issue..do you have some that could cover some of the cost ?

YD.

 

[25thmustang]

Re: Calling Experts, Hull damage/repair (PHOTOS)

xxx

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Calling Experts, Hull damage/repair (PHOTOS)

It all depends on your Insurance policy..

They send out an adjuster..and he tells the Co how much if any comp should be applied.

YD.