Can anyone point me to the "Whole Story" on Mercury/Yammie/Force?

[SeaKaye12]

Hi,<br /><br />I'm playing knowledge catch-up in the world of outboards.<br /><br />20 years worth of catch-up.<br /><br />Can anyone here point me to a thread or another site that explains what's been going on with Mercury over the years?<br /><br />(1) Mercury and Yamaha...what is the current relationship? Does one own the other; are Yamaha powerheads being used on Mercury engines? Currently? In the past? What models are affected?<br /><br />(2) What's with Force? I thought that was a Chrysler spin-off; but there are Force engines from Mercury? Are they the same? <br /><br />(3) What's with Mariner? <br /><br />Hopefully someone can point me to a source where I can feel knowedgable again? Many thanks!<br /><br />Thanks for reading, Chuck

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Can anyone point me to the "Whole Story" on Mercury/Yammie/Force?

wow<br /> you dont ask for much<br /> its been a crazy 30 years or so<br /> back in the 80's US marine bought out chysler, in the 90's brunswick marine bought out US marine and made some changes to the ign system and later the lower units, but the powerhead/fuel system remained about the same. in the 80's merc teamed with yamaha to develop 4 strokes. in 03 or so merc sued yamaha for dunmping. so after about march of 0six yamaha wont support any made for merc products. merc also made certain HP engines for yamaha. now Tohatsu is making small merc 4 strokes for brunswick. the midrange 4 strokes are made in a brandnew chinese facility and the big ones are made in the states, for now, however trade roumor has it the second china facility is opening soon. so some merc 4 strokes are black yamahas and some 4 stroke yams are silver gray mercs. its a mess

 

[roscoe]

Re: Can anyone point me to the "Whole Story" on Mercury/Yammie/Force?

Mariner is not sold in the US anymore.<br />Force discontinued as of 1999.

 

[Dunaruna]

Re: Can anyone point me to the "Whole Story" on Mercury/Yammie/Force?

Merc is/was mariner, mariner started as the european arm of merc way back (mid 60's I think). <br /><br />Yammie and merc shared technology in the eighties/nineties. In 2004, merc filed a complaint with the U.S. Dept of Commerce in regard to japanese outboard imports (complete units AND parts, including powerheads). <br /><br />Currently, Tohatsu make the smaller merc 4strokes up to 5hp.<br /><br />The whole story is a mess, a lot of rumors - very hard to get facts and figures.

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: Can anyone point me to the "Whole Story" on Mercury/Yammie/Force?

Currently, Tohatsu makes Mercury's 2hp through 30hp. Tohatsu also makes some larger Mercurys for the non-U.S. market.

 

[ivar]

Re: Can anyone point me to the "Whole Story" on Mercury/Yammie/Force?

And in Europe, the Mariner range was Yamaha based from 2-60 hp (except for the IL4 50hp), the rest was mercury. This was at least until around 1990, when the Yamaha models were phased out. <br /><br />Also, in 1976-79(?) the 80, 90, 115HP Mercs were also sold as Yamaha in some markets.

 

[orca]

Re: Can anyone point me to the "Whole Story" on Mercury/Yammie/Force?

Just to clarify.<br />Mercury made force, before that they were chrysler, before that they were west bend, before that they were Scott-McCollock.<br />Mercury make mariner, still available in some markets. Early Mariners were Yamaha.<br />Yamaha have made and still make some four strokes for Merc.<br />Tohatsu make some 2 & four strokes for Merc.Tohatsu and mercury have a joint agreement and have just finished a new factory on Japan.<br />Mercury have factories in USA, Canada, Japan, China and Belgium.<br />Mercury Have made some componants for Yamaha and Honda over the years.<br />Bombardier make Johnson & Evinrude outboards since the OMC collapse about 5 years ago.<br />Suzuki make 4 strokes for Bombardier under the Johnson and Evinrude names.<br />There you go, clear as mud

 

[Dunaruna]

Re: Can anyone point me to the "Whole Story" on Mercury/Yammie/Force?

http://www.bosunsmate.co.uk/mercury.htm

 

[orca]

Re: Can anyone point me to the "Whole Story" on Mercury/Yammie/Force?

I checked out the website dunna, Very interesting, I look forward to more installements but it will take a long time to go right through to 300HP.<br />My opinion, worst motor that merc made was the 3 Cyl 2 Carby 50-60-65-70 of the mid 70S to the Mid 80S. Horrible thing to tune.

 

[Dunaruna]

Re: Can anyone point me to the "Whole Story" on Mercury/Yammie/Force?

If you're up for some reading, check this out.....<br /><br /><br /> http://ia.ita.doc.gov/frn/0408frn/04-18453.txt

 

[SeaKaye12]

Re: Can anyone point me to the "Whole Story" on Mercury/Yammie/Force?

Very interesting reading. Thanks for all the replies.<br /><br />I dunno...it seems that with all the cross vending within Mercury...I'm having a hard time feeling suportive of them these days.<br /><br />Of course; what choice do you have really; all of the old time names have merged at least once.<br /><br />It;s just odd though...you go to Mercury's site and they make it sound like the same engineers have been working there since the 60's....churning our killer engines right in America's back yard.<br /><br />Marketing I guess.<br /><br />Thanks again, Chuck

 

[orca]

Re: Can anyone point me to the "Whole Story" on Mercury/Yammie/Force?

I have a car called a Ford telstar, You can buy the same vehicle under the Mazda name, When you open the hood you find componants that have the Mitsubishi trademark stamped on.<br /><br />Brand naming has been going on for years and is going to get worse.<br /><br />Mercury used technology from Porsch and Lotus with their latest motors, no company these days can do all their R&D in house and make every componant themselves

 

[Dunaruna]

Re: Can anyone point me to the "Whole Story" on Mercury/Yammie/Force?

In the automotive world, it's called 'badge engineering'. They all do it to some extent or another.

 

[stan_deezy]

Re: Can anyone point me to the "Whole Story" on Mercury/Yammie/Force?

That government doc made for interesting reading (and difficult, I kept falling asleep!).<br />Strange how the committee seemed to keep changing the rules all the way through or was that just my take on it?

 

[Triton II]

Re: Can anyone point me to the "Whole Story" on Mercury/Yammie/Force?

Aldo, I can write, but by this time of night I can't read for long without glasses, and I hate wearing them (they make me feel sick, don't know why). How about an executive summary of the findings Mercury vs Japan? Please!<br /><br />Mark.

 

[seahorse5]

Re: Can anyone point me to the "Whole Story" on Mercury/Yammie/Force?

Try this for latest information<br /><br /> http://hotdocs.usitc.gov/docs/pubs/701_731/pub3752.pdf

 

[SeaKaye12]

Re: Can anyone point me to the "Whole Story" on Mercury/Yammie/Force?

180 Pages!!!!<br /><br />Holy Garbonzo Beans!!!!<br /><br />Maybe someone will volunteer to "summarize" that one!

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: Can anyone point me to the "Whole Story" on Mercury/Yammie/Force?

The Feds said there was dumping( by one vote), but Mercury made money during this period and they had to prove that they lost money...Since they made money.... the Feds told Mercury to stop whining and that was the end of it. In the end we all lost as now you pay more for Jap engines under the Jap company name and under Mercury and BRP's name. Mercury did not gain any market share so it was a draw on U.S. jobs and since we pay more for the engines it deepens the trade inbalance with Japan as the winner. Everyone be sure to write a thank you letter to Mercury for making the situation worse.

 

[Chinewalker]

Re: Can anyone point me to the "Whole Story" on Mercury/Yammie/Force?

> "Mercury made force, before that they were chrysler, before that they were west bend, before that they were Scott-McCollock."<br /><br />Not exactly...<br /><br />Just to clarify Whaley's clarification on one point - West Bend/Chrysler was never associated with Scott/McCulloch... West Bend made motors for Sears & Roebuck under the Elgin moniker. The motors were successful enough that WB introduced a line of their own in the early/mid 1950s... Chrysler bought them in 1964. ..<br /><br />McCulloch (the chainsaw folks) bought the Scott Atwater company in the 1960s. Scott-Atwater had begun as a spin-off of Champion outboards just prior to WWII. Scott Atwater actually invented the sliding clutch-dog gearshift used on most outboards.<br /><br />- Scott

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: Can anyone point me to the "Whole Story" on Mercury/Yammie/Force?

Does anyone remember the old West Bend 80 HP Shark?