Can it be done? My dilema...

[americaneagler77]

Re: Can it be done? My dilema...

wrx for sure. id keep that 3000 away from the water.

 

[dr1124]

Re: Can it be done? My dilema...

but... one other thing came to mind. What type of clutch do you have in the vr? A light weight 4 puck is going to be a huge pain to pull from a steep ramp, and you probably will burn it quite badly. The softer the engagement and heavier the flywheel, the better.

The VR4 has a Stage 3 or 4 Southbend clutch with an ultra-light flywheel. As I stated somewhere around here - I can go through my gears in quick succession. It sounds like an indy car I've been told.

 

[dr1124]

Re: Can it be done? My dilema...

you'll likely get two-foot-itis.

Haha! I could see that side of me at some point, but not for a long time. My friends have an 18' StarWeld with an Merc 225hp/Merc 9.9hp (I think it's new this year). They have offered to let me use their Van and boat whenever I want - and I have been out before with them on it...but it's too much. I originally wanted a pair of Jetski's (stand up type). After being enlightened to the existence of smaller jetboats, I have reconsidered that desire (mainly just so I can go out on the water with more than just myself in the future if need be). I am a tinkerer of machines - so a small craft such as this is all I really want. I can lightly modify it and still have fun. I don't need another vehicle capable of killing me in .000218 seconds....I got 3 of them as it is.

...Besides, living where I do, a bigger boat would never get into the water. There's nowhere to run them. A small, slow [<45mph] jetboat fits my needs/desires, my location, and my finances.

 

[H20Rat]

Re: Can it be done? My dilema...

The VR4 has a Stage 3 or 4 Southbend clutch with an ultra-light flywheel. As I stated somewhere around here - I can go through my gears in quick succession. It sounds like an indy car I've been told.

That by itself makes it more or less incapable of pulling a load, especially trying to pull a boat up a ramp... You would burn through the clutch fairly quickly.

 

[H20Rat]

Re: Can it be done? My dilema...

I don't need another vehicle capable of killing me in .000218 seconds....I got 3 of them as it is.

non-towing question... How much boating experience do you have? Have you taken a safe boating course? Out of the vehicles listed in this thread, the boat is possibly the MOST likely to kill you, depending on the answers above... Don't let the speed mislead you, that speedster is plenty fast to get you into trouble REALLY quickly. A boat can kill you without even moving, and without other boaters involved... (say for example anchoring off the stern) Even at idle, people have been run over by slipping and falling out, and then the boat happily circles around until it finally gets them, steven king style... Granted, those are generic examples that don't apply well to this boat, it still shouldn't be underestimated.

Sorry, not trying to scare you away from it, have fun!

 

[dr1124]

Re: Can it be done? My dilema...

non-towing question... How much boating experience do you have?

I have taken my state's boating course (mandatory). I should clarify, I don't plan to run the SeaDoo at max output 100% of the time, just as I don't with my VR4 or my ZX14. I have decent experience, but all my boating experience is on similar sized craft (18') in the locations where I will actually be boating. My friends were what got me into nautical shenanigans. The friend with the StarWeld I alluded to earlier was the one I have been with the most. He has taken me out on all 3 of his boats over the course of the 10 years I've known him. He goes to Canada on long fishing trips and also goes out on the Great Lakes; I want no part of that. I prefer the more docile waters of the lakes and resevoirs in the neighboring counties.

I know that the boat is the most dangerous of my vehicles, but adding more fuel to the fire by getting something that is more than what I need (in both speed and repair complexity) is impractical to say the least. I think for my purposes (recreational stress relief), a small craft is more than adequate. I am a peace officer in a real bad neck of the woods and my stress level needs to...take a dive (pun intended). I originally wanted a small (300-500cc) standup Jetski before I became aware of small jetboats. The only factor(s) leaning me toward a boat over the ski's is passengers...and maybe fishing. I have been in some bad aquatic situations in my life (nearly drown 5 or so times), and I am not about to underestimate any motorcraft. I respect the 300lbs jetski's the same as I do the 20,000lbs semi rolling down the freeway next to me on my cycle.

I really want to do this right [safely]; that's why I'm here. Yet, I also have to do this within my means. You all that have responded to this thread have helped me out bigtime - whether that shows or not. And make no mistake, I appreciate it. I have not dismissed anything that has been said, and have since inquired about rigging my WRX up for transporting the craft around (when it gets back from the transmission shop this week). I was originally going to sell it to a family member. Their vehicle is about to fall apart, and I rarely drive my cars. The VR4 is the vacationer, the WRX is the winter DD, and the cycle is my transportation to work and everything else. Saves me alot on gas using the cycle, but my insurance bill every 6 months is more than my taxes.... :facepalm:

PS: About my deadly vehicles, I was referring to: overboosting my VR4 and other problems I've encountered when modding/testing it, I have been nearly run over on my bike more than you would believe (it's kinda hard to miss - it's huge), and lastly, my Subaru's tranny dying in the middle of a crowded shopping mall area. My luck sucks, but I do the best I can and pray for clearer skies!

 

[kahuna123]

Re: Can it be done? My dilema...

Yes I towed a Carlson Glastron CVX 16 with a 140 Evinrude with a 1977 Datsun 280Z 4 speed standard for years and years never a problem. I sold the car with the original clutch at 150K. My buddy towed the same boat with a modified 280ZX. My Dad towed our 14ft V-Hull with a 10 hp Johnson with a 1967 6 cylinder 250 CI Camaro for many years. He bought the car new in 1967 and the family sold it in 2000 for more than original price. Oh and by the way original clutch, motor was never apart. We also had a 15ft Cobia with a 65 Merc that I learned to barefoot on that was towed with a Ford 1976 pickup with straight 6 with a 3 speed standard. He sold it to my uncle with 120K with the original clutch and the motor was never apart. Now I am pulling a small boat with a very heavy trailer with a POS Chevy pickup with a completely worn out V6 and it goes down the road just fine and pulls a similar boat up the ramp just fine. And yes pulling a 21 ft with it was not smart but we had to get somewhere and that was our choice. You need to look at the stats at how much hp it takes to pull 2k down the road. By the way don't tell a semi driver about this thread because his 800hp should not be able to pull 20 ton trailer. But I guess if you rev it to 4K and feather the clutch on the ramp you could tear up anything.

If you live in the mountains, its one thing. But come on your only pulling less than 2K with 500 HP. Four guys with a rope could pull that up a ramp. I know the hp curve is on the rpm high side but you shouldn't even be getting close to it. Can't pull it up the ramp with a stick. Gee how did the world get by the last 80 years with everyone having an automatic. I know there's no real back seat but if you put 4 200lbs guys in the car thats half what you want to pull!

My Scion XB with every bit off 90hp is rated to pull 800 lbs. Don't let the armchair quarterbacks scare you.

 

[dr1124]

Re: Can it be done? My dilema...

I know the hp curve is on the rpm high side but you shouldn't even be getting close to it.

My maximum torque is very low in the powerband because of the parallel twin turbines. Via mods, I can also reroute the boost from the rear turbine into the second to increase spool speed at the cost of burning some oil and increased EGT's. Basically, I would never need to rev past 2500RPM to get the most out of my engine [for towing]. Horsepower is a function of maximum speed/output, torque is the function of acceleration to that maximum speed from a given engine speed. Max torque down low gives me good crusing and lauching abilities on the street (I can be in 5th @ 55mph and floor it and still keep up with anything save a sportbike). Still yet, with the light flywheel, I'm kinda worried about fusing the clutch disks to the flywheel or warping it (or even popping springs!). Had those happen to my buddies, and they aren't pretty (or cheap).

Despite the fact that the VR4 is a race-ready machine, I don't use it as such. I did what I did to it mainly because I have a hard-on for bringing the max potential out of any machine (even if it's impractical and I never use it). BOOOOOOST!!!!! Same goes for my ZX14; it would effortlessly do 150MPH+ but it's never seen 75 in my service. I know, I'm lame...

I know there's no real back seat but if you put 4 200lbs guys in the car thats half what you want to pull!

Since I don't weigh too much, maybe I can put an additional bit of weight on the rear axle and it would think that a gorilla was driving it? I have a hard time believing a car that was designed & weighs 2 tons stock can't support a class 1 trailer load. I mean c'mon, thats like how the ONLY people I see driving Mazda Miata's are severely overweight people! Those poor little cars; talk about lowriders...

 

[H20Rat]

Re: Can it be done? My dilema...

Still yet, with the light flywheel, I'm kinda worried about fusing the clutch disks to the flywheel or warping it (or even popping springs!). .

Find the absolute steepest hill you can find, stop on it and set the parking brake a couple of notches to simulate the weight of a boat, and then see how well you can accelerate at a snails pace up the hill... If it isn't easy/possible to do in that case, it is going to be about 10x harder with a trailer behind...

At least from personal experience, I've driven wrx's with mid range 4 puck clutches, and there is no way it would be usable for pulling up a ramp. The engagement is too sudden, it would be tough to do it at low enough rpms without stalling, or burning lots of clutch at higher rpm's.

 

[kahuna123]

Re: Can it be done? My dilema...

Do what you want. I am not gonna argue a particular point. But for giggles. Go out and grab the trailer on flat smooth ground and see what it really takes to move it. Thats what we are talking about. Much less once it is started moving. I will let the armchairs guide you.

 

[dr1124]

Re: Can it be done? My dilema...

Find the absolute steepest hill you can find, stop on it and set the parking brake a couple of notches to simulate the weight of a boat, and then see how well you can accelerate at a snails pace up the hill... If it isn't easy/possible to do in that case, it is going to be about 10x harder with a trailer behind...

On steep hills, I already have to rev to 2000rpm and let her out slow because of the cars near 2 ton curb weight. I know that I can drop the clutch flat out at that engine speed and it will definitely drag itself up, but thats hard on the car. Your point about "sudden engagement" of the clutch doesn't seem to fit the VR4's (though bear in mind, I AM an idiot). It has a long pedal travel, but the actual engagement zone is maybe 3 inches of that travel. In that zone, there is a wide gap between slipping it and abrupt grip. Holding 2500rpm and letting it out slowly will shave my clutch smooth methinks? That begs the question [if I used the VR4] should I slip it up the ramp, ease into full engagement, or just to drop it (<-- not likely to happen)? I can do any of these on the steepest grades around here, maybe ~60 degree slope, and the car doesn't react much to it (ECS negates lurching when in touring mode, though I think I would be using sport mode for towing anything). I have to say once the clutch does grab [even partially] at maybe 2.5k, the boost builds quick and it'll soon be creeping near 4k-5k if I don't fully engage it quick enough. That has happened to me on occasion where I get lost in unfamiliar territory and end up stopping on a steep hill with "impatient people" or severe tailgaters behind me. Even partially engaged, the car isn't something with which one should $%^#...

Should I consider using a longer gear like 2nd to simulate a trucks granny gearing? This is something I would only know about through personal experimentation, if I didn't have the advice of those with more experience.

 

[kahuna123]

Re: Can it be done? My dilema...

On steep hills, I already have to rev to 2000rpm and let her out slow because of the cars near 2 ton curb weight. I know that I can drop the clutch flat out at that engine speed and it will definitely drag itself up, but thats hard on the car. Your point about "sudden engagement" of the clutch doesn't seem to fit the VR4's (though bear in mind, I AM an idiot). It has a long pedal travel, but the actual engagement zone is maybe 3 inches of that travel. In that zone, there is a wide gap between slipping it and abrupt grip. Holding 2500rpm and letting it out slowly will shave my clutch smooth methinks? That begs the question [if I used the VR4] should I slip it up the ramp, ease into full engagement, or just to drop it (<-- not likely to happen)? I can do any of these on the steepest grades around here, maybe ~60 degree slope, and the car doesn't react much to it (ECS negates lurching when in touring mode, though I think I would be using sport mode for towing anything). I have to say once the clutch does grab [even partially] at maybe 2.5k, the boost builds quick and it'll soon be creeping near 4k-5k if I don't fully engage it quick enough. That has happened to me on occasion where I get lost in unfamiliar territory and end up stopping on a steep hill with "impatient people" or severe tailgaters behind me. Even partially engaged, the car isn't something with which one should $%^#...

 

[illbreakthat]

Re: Can it be done? My dilema...

View attachment 109695Well as for me I just bought a 97' larson 16.5' with a 90hp OB and I took it for its first ride and I am pulling it with my 03' Subaru outback 4cyl 5spd. It does pull a bit when going up hills but I had no problems pulling the boat out of the water with slight slip. If you can get a class 2 on the WRX I think that would be your better choice I am going to try to get a picture of my rig up here.