Can someone help answer these questions please?

[NewbieBoater]

I am interested in potentially purchasing a 1985 Bayliner Capri (Cuddy). The boat has a 125 Force outboard and appears to be in great shape (externally) and I haven't seen the inside (cuddy cabin yet). It also has a rebuilt top end that was completed in 1997.<br /><br />My questions would be and apologize in advance if it's a lot of questions, however, I've never owned a boat so I'm learning:<br /><br />1) Will a 19ft boat be ok in the Bay with good weather or too small? I've talked to a few friends and they've said that 19ft is too small. What are your thoughts?<br /><br />2) Is the 125hp force engine enough for 4 people total and also potentially pulling one of the 4 people on a tube?<br /><br />3) What kind of things should I look for before potentially purchasing this boat?<br /><br />4) I have a 1995 Toyota T-100 4 wheel drive pickup truck (believe it's a 3.8 liter engine), will this pickup truck be able to tow this boat or will it be too much weight? I'm assuming that it's around 3200+ lbs.<br /><br />Thank you again in advance for helping me out.<br /><br />-Tim

 

[sea wolf]

Re: Can someone help answer these questions please?

well, u can take it out for a test run. not a 10 min. one either, a couple hours. put it thru it's paces if the weather will allow u to. if u don't know about boats, take it to a mechanic {yours, not theirs} & have him look it over. i would be wary of buying a force engine of that vintage. they are a problem, unless the previous owner has meticulously maintained it. and don't hand over any $$$$, unless u are sure u want the boat. i think you're best bet would be to look around for another boat, there's plenty of them out there.

 

[arks]

Re: Can someone help answer these questions please?

Tim-<br />I'm a Chesapeake boater, and 19' is fine for normal conditions. My first boat was only 15' and we explored most of the Northern bay with it. Just be aware of the weather and take it easy over the big boat wakes .<br /><br />- 125 HP should be fine for carrying 4 people, but pulling a tube with 4 adults will be a struggle to get outta the hole. My 15 footer had an 85 Johnson and we skiied and pulled a tube (1 person) all day long. The Force brand is...shall we say, "basic". <br /><br />-As Sea Wolf said, have the engine checked by a professional. It's worth the money. If the boat is at a dealer, you'll have to put down a deposit (usually 10%) in order to water test it. This is normal, and is refundable if you decide not to buy. But don't sign any agreement yet.... a boat of this vintage may very well have some soft spots; check the transom, stringers, deck and cockpit floor carefully. Minor problems can be repaired, but any significant rot will make for an expensive repair. Sniff around the gas tank to determine if there's any leaks. Look for any deep cracks in the gelcoat (crazing is normal and does not indicate any structural issues).Although a survey would be nice, I suspect the boat's value doesn't warrant the cost. Just check it out the best you can. Bring along a knowledgable friend, too.<br /><br />- Your Toyota should be OK if it's an automatic and you drive easy while trailering. A stick is less desirable due to the excessive clutch slipping needed at the launch ramp.<br /><br />Good luck with your decision!

 

[NewbieBoater]

Re: Can someone help answer these questions please?

seawolf,<br /> Thank you for your honest and upfront reply, I appreciate it very much.<br /><br />arks,<br /> Thank you as well for your reply. To give you a little more information, the guy that I'm considering buying the boat from has been very forthcoming on any issues with the boat. The isses that I already know about are:<br /><br />1) The gas gauge does not work. How hard is this to troubleshoot and get to work? <br />2) There is a small leak on the engine hydraulic lift. How hard is this to troubleshoot? Possibly a seal or something?<br /><br />By the way, it's good to hear that the 19' might be enough boat to hit the bay on ideal conditions, although I don't know if I'll honestly be in the bay that much. I would like to potentially take a ride to the inner harbor and the last thing I would like to have is issues with the boat getting beat to death and not making its voyage <br /><br />I apologize for not being a little more clear on how many people + tube. I'm talking 4 adults total and out of those 4, one of them would be riding the tube. Sorry. <br /><br />The guy that I'm potentially buying from has no problem taking me out for a ride so I might just take him up on that. Since I've never really driven a boat, I will need to learn some of the rules of the road so to speak as well. I was in the Navy for some years and remember some of them and have also heard that I could take a basic navigation type course (1 day). <br /><br />

a boat of this vintage may very well have some soft spots; check the transom, stringers, deck and cockpit floor carefully. <br />

Sorry for the basic questions, could you possibly explain to me what these items are for and where I'll find them at? Sorry but again, I'm new to this and want to ensure that I do the right thing. I'm assuming that I'll just literally walk around the boat feeling for soft spots/weak points which is the wood rot'd?<br /><br />

<br />Minor problems can be repaired, but any significant rot will make for an expensive repair. Sniff around the gas tank to determine if there's any leaks.<br />

Thank you for that advice. Where exactly would the gas tank be located?<br /><br />

<br /> Look for any deep cracks in the gelcoat (crazing is normal and does not indicate any structural issues).<br />

I'm assuming you mean to look physcially around the boat (the hull) for any signs of weakness in the fiberglass?<br /><br />

<br />Although a survey would be nice, I suspect the boat's value doesn't warrant the cost. Just check it out the best you can. Bring along a knowledgable friend, too.<br />

The value doesn't warrant doing this, however, I might just have a friend go with me to fully inspect this boat to ensure all is well. It isn't necessarily that I don't trust the guy I'm buying from, however, there might be issues that he's not aware of and I'd hate to find them out when I'm a mile away from home.<br /><br />About my truck, I'm assuming that when I recover the boat from the water, I'll probably end up having to put it in 4wd low to ensure that I get a good grip coming up the ramp? Is that a good idea? I'm assuming that the back tires will be in the water and won't be able to grab very well.<br /><br />Thanks again for all of your advice, I appreciate it very much.<br /><br />One more question before I forget. What do you think a boat like this would be worth with a trailer? Again, it's a 85 Bayliner Capri 19' with a 125 force engine.<br /><br />Tim

 

[Bondo]

Re: Can someone help answer these questions please?

Just My Opinion......<br />That boat wasn't worth what you're going to pay for it when it was NEW... 18 Years Ago ..!!!!<br />The Bilgeliner Capri Is/Was the Yugo of boats, Then,+ Now....<br />The Only people who buy them are the Unknowing, such as yourself.......<br /><br />Go rent a boat, See if you really like boating(AND, You'll get to beat, smash, dent, Someone Elses boat)....<br />Then hang-out at the docks, beaches, etc.... Ask the boaters you meet about their boats..... Then go buy Anything But a Bilgeliner.....

 

[NewbieBoater]

Re: Can someone help answer these questions please?

Bondo,<br /> Thank you for your insight. Keep in mind that I'm new to this boating thing and very much new. I'm no expert by any means, however, I do a lot of research before making any purchase and that's why I'm asking all of these questions now.<br /><br /> To date, I've read hundreds of threads here of both angry folks that own Bayliners and also some very happy one's. <br /><br /> I guess what I'm saying is that this could very well be a nice first time boat for me to learn on. <br /><br />Thanks,<br /> Tim

 

[roscoe]

Re: Can someone help answer these questions please?

Unfortunately, there is some truth to what bondo is saying. Most USMarine/Bayliner/Force rigs were bought by entry level boaters, with price as a deciding factor. Most of these new boaters did not know the first thing about boat or engine maintenance, and there are many troubled bayliners being passed on to new unsuspecting owners. <br /><br />I don't know what price you are paying, but if it isn't worth a couple hundred $ to get it checked out, then it is already junk, and will end up costing you many hours of grief and money.<br /><br />The "hydrolic leak" you mentioned could end up costing you $700+ alone, for an aftermarket unit and installation. Parts are not available for many of these units, so a reseal/rebuild may not be possible. If it was so easy to fix, don't you think the current owner would have done it already.<br /><br />If the wood in the transom, the floor, the stringers, etc., is rotted internally, then you are talking about a year long rebuild process, that will cause you thousands. <br /><br />At the very least, the engine needs to have a compression test done. If any one of the cylinders is below the 120# level, walk away. Period. <br /><br />I think the boat, motor, trailer, gear, gas, coolers, etc., would weigh more than you think. That means the trailer will need functioning brakes if over 3000#, just to be legal. You should really have them at about 2000# to be safe.<br /><br />I don't mean to **** on your dream, but want you to know what you are getting into. This is low end quality unit.

 

[iRich]

Re: Can someone help answer these questions please?

Hi Newbieboater, Where at in Pasadena? I live there too. These people are giving you good advice. Check the boat out real carefully, especially for any signs of rot. Indications would be like you said-walking around and feeling for soft spots. Also check the transom by standing on the lower unit of the motor and bouncig a bit, there should be no flex at all. <br /> As far as going out on the bay, I have seen people out there in 10 foot john boats so I think you are ok there. My father-in-law and his friend paddled a canoe across the bay when he was younger. The boating course is a great idea, I want to take one myself as I am new at this boating stuff too. I would look at some more boats also, I made the mistake of jumping on the first one I saw. About 1000.00 and a year later it is in good shape and I learned alot about boats. I did all the work myself though or it would never have had a chance. Good luck,<br /><br />Rich

 

[pburchett]

Re: Can someone help answer these questions please?

iRich is giving you the straight word on some repair cost. A simple job of replacing the shift cables and bellows on my boat cost me $600 and I performed all the work. A simple water pump seal took several afternoons and only cost me somewhere over $200. Take a very experienced boater with you to test the boat, and then do not be mad at him if you later find several expensive repairs that need to be made, as the will show up. Just letting you know what happened to me. Just make sure you get the best boat that your money will buy you.

 

[NewbieBoater]

Re: Can someone help answer these questions please?

iRich,<br /> I live near Lake Waterford (near Catherine Ave). Thank you for your advice. I guess I'm kind of hung up on the price of the boat and it does seem like a great deal but as everyone is mentioning, it seems almost too good to be true. As I mentioned, I'm very new to boats so I'm all ears here and listening to what folks are telling me. <br /><br /> Since everyone appears to be set against the Bayliner, any other brands that I should look for and what kind of price range?<br /><br />Thank you everyone for the kind advice!<br /><br />Tim

 

[andrewkafp]

Re: Can someone help answer these questions please?

Hey Newbie<br /><br />I am also a fairly newbie boater, but from Downunder. Everything the guys are saying is for your benefit in the long run. The 120psi in all cylinders is a bit critical as it can be as low as 100psi, but consistancy is the main critera.<br />As long as they're all within 5% of each other.<br />I knew very little about boats 6 mths ago, but soon learned that they can be a hole that you put into the water and throw money into. The guys know what to look for like the floor which is critcal and Power tilt hydraulics (very expensive to fix). I'm not going to critisize the Force engine as I have read some good report from owners who own them AND HAVE TREATED THEM WELL.<br />The best boat is the one that you don't have to spend all your time and money on, so you need to get something that's been looked after.

 

[NewbieBoater]

Re: Can someone help answer these questions please?

Andy,<br /> Thanks for the info. I'm not new to mechanics by any means (own a supercharged Mustang) here's a good picture of my work (although I'm not a mechanics perse). Don't worry, I'll do a compression test before I buy (if I decide to buy this one --- still looking at options).<br /><br />Anyway, here is a picture of my mechanical ability on my green mustang that I sometimes feel the urge to race:<br /><br />Engine<br />

<br /><br />The green turtle that the engine above powers<br /><br />

 

[andrewkafp]

Re: Can someone help answer these questions please?

hmmmm<br /><br />Looks Turbocharged ??

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: Can someone help answer these questions please?

Uh hum... after seeing your car I have the strange feeling that you should be looking at boats with twin V8s!<br /><br />You should consider buying two books (both available on Amazon I think)<br /><br />1) Getting started in power boating<br />2) Small-block Chevy Marine performance<br /><br />The later goes into great detail about the differences in auto and marine engines using the chevy 350 (Merc 260) as a model.

 

[NewbieBoater]

Re: Can someone help answer these questions please?

Andy,<br /> It's a Vortech "S" trim supercharger And no, I am not looking for a serious powerboat with twin anythings hehehe... this car is expensive enough and if I buy one more expensive toy (less the boat), I might end up with a sign that says "Need good home"... just ask my wife LOL.

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: Can someone help answer these questions please?

you just go live on the boat like most of us do

 

[andrewkafp]

Re: Can someone help answer these questions please?

Geez<br /><br />Things have changed since my petrolhead days in the late 70s.. A mustang was a big shark looking machine with a 390 or 428 in it . (BULLITT)<br />And a Supercharger was TALL...<br />Looks like Technology has escaped me, but with your interest in mechanical stuff, the boat will be a natural for you. The guys are just trying to save your wallet.

 

[andrewkafp]

Re: Can someone help answer these questions please?

Did you see the post from Aus where the poster is interesting in a... Guess what ??<br />BAYLINER.

 

[Spidybot]

Re: Can someone help answer these questions please?

One thing that should be mentioned is, that Bayliner & Force pacakages were made to attract the novice. It looks very good, design is so nice and it appeals to all.<br /><br />For 'some reason' the majority of boaters end up with something else and it is the net outcome of all the experince, we are trying to bring on to you.<br /><br />Without analysing you as a perosn one gets the impression that you appreciate value. A Bayliner could be good value (defined by 'what you get/what you pay') but the long-term issue has to be taken into consideration. You ask for alternative brands to look for and I'd say many will agree on a: 'Any in good shape'. Look for a motor of a well known brand with a service point near you and pay special attention to maintenance and repair history.<br /><br />Better pay 1000 for something worth 2000 than the other way around, right?<br /><br />At the end of the day it is a matter of meeting your expectations. We just want to make sure your expectations (+future increases) are well known.<br />If you decide it was a mistake, the resale value becomes important and Bayliner's more than often turns out to be unsellable.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Can someone help answer these questions please?

You ask about Brand Names......<br />Anything But Bilgeliner, Is a Good Start......<br />For the motor, Anything But a Force,(OMC outdrives also) Is a Good second Step.......<br />The odds that this Cheapo boat was Perfectly Maintained for the last 18 years is Pretty Slim....<br />It may Look inexpencive now.... But, I'll Bet it'll turn around,+ cost you Big$$$$$$$<br />When shopping for used boats, an Ice-Pick is your Best Friend.....use it to probe the stringers,+ under the floors....