Can this amount of fade be "fixed"

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Can this amount of fade be "fixed"

This stuff is the Bomb

Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: 3M 06044 Imperial Compound and Finishing Material - 32 fl. oz.

Serious .. good stuff right here.

YD.

 

[noideawhat]

Re: Can this amount of fade be "fixed"

Yeah that's what I bought. Works amazing I got a 7in.angle grinder and a mcguires black foam pad I was hoping that could work but I realized the rpms 11,000.... Prolly just screw it up more. It's really really faded so doing it by hand will be a pain but I think using this angle grinder idea will be worse lol who knows

 

[mwe-maxxowner]

Re: Can this amount of fade be "fixed"

I think there should be a sticky about bringing back an aged gelcoat of varying degrees of oxidation. From light buffings to full on wet sanding jobs. It seems to be a frequently asked topic, and I know I for one will need advice when I do it.

 

[noideawhat]

Re: Can this amount of fade be "fixed"

I agree, I'm kinda winging it based on the knowledge I'm getting off here. The 3 m compound is amazing now I just need to know if this grinder with a soft pad will work

 

[mwe-maxxowner]

Re: Can this amount of fade be "fixed"

I personally wouldn't try it. There's too much at stake for the price of a polisher. And think you can shine it once a year! And do vehicles, etc.

 

[noideawhat]

Re: Can this amount of fade be "fixed"

Dammit mwe is right lol guess I have to stop being cheap lol

 

[mwe-maxxowner]

Re: Can this amount of fade be "fixed"

Sorry! I'm cheap too, but if you burn it up and leave swirls, imagine how badly you'd kick yourself out on the lake this summer with a shiny, swirly boat knowing less than 100$ would have saved it!? I'm having to teach myself to look at things this way and quit saving every dime I can that costs me a quarter.

 

[noideawhat]

Re: Can this amount of fade be "fixed"

Ah Dammit mwe is right I'd rather not chance it, guess I have to stop being so cheap hahahs

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Can this amount of fade be "fixed"

If you have one of the small buffers that turns 11K it will most likely shred the buffing pad before you get it to the boat. The pads are rated for about 3,500.

You want to keep the RPMs down to prevent excess heat, heat is your enemy when buffing, about 2,800 RPMs or less, light pressure and keeping it moving will yield the best results.

A sticky could be rather long because there are so many variables involved.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Can this amount of fade be "fixed"

I agree about the heat. Not sure what YD was referring to when he said get the heat up. Maybe Gelcoat is different??? I know it is to some degree but I figured 2,500 rpm was plenty good for either one. The 11,000 rpm of a grinder is WAY to much. Now if you could find a cheap right angled drill you might could use it.

 

[noideawhat]

Re: Can this amount of fade be "fixed"

^ that sir is a great idea!

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Can this amount of fade be "fixed"

Typical gel coat and resins start to soften around 160F or a little more, when this happens there are a couple of things that can take place. There is always some residual cure left in the gel coat and laminate, as the laminate reaches temperatures higher than it has before, or past it’s heat distortion temperature, it will start to move and change shape. If there are forces being applied to it it make take a slightly new shape, or as it continues to cure there may be some shrinkage resulting in surface distortion.

When you buff gel coat it can generate a great deal of heat, you can get to 200F rather quickly if you are pushing hard, this can result in the surface becoming a little softer and any additional cure that takes place can cause an orange peel type finish, or other surface issues. The color can also change a little.

Sometimes reworking the surface can solve the problem, other times it just makes it worse. This can happen on recently built parts (new boats) or items that have been in service for a long time, there are just so many variables involved it’s hard to say what exactly may happen on any particular surface.

Older laminates tend to be more thoroughly cured, but this isn’t always the case, again, there are just too many variables.

One issue with the foam pads is they tend to trap more heat than wool, so the temp may get higher easier when used on gel coat. There are different pads and buffing compounds for gel coat and paint, so if possible use ones for gel coat, both will work, but if you have the option get the right ones.

Relatively light pressure, especially towards the end of the job (final buff) and not stopping in one place will typically give better results than trying to use the buffer as a grinder.

 

[noideawhat]

Re: Can this amount of fade be "fixed"

im gonna seee if i can rig something up with a drill later, if it works ill post a DIY thing,,, for cheap people like me

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Can this amount of fade be "fixed"

im gonna seee if i can rig something up with a drill later, if it works ill post a DIY thing,,, for cheap people like me

I think your over complicating things.

Get a 7" rotary buffer ( Sander polisher ) Not a Grinder.

Use a Wool pad and some compound ( not some cheesy $5.00 pad ).

Go light and steady .. then heavier if needed. Its a learning curve with every job man.

Yes Heat. You need Heat when you "Rub-Out" or Buff. Not so much when your Polishing or Glazing. Your goal is to Melt the surface and Rub/Smear it around ( Anyone that has knowledge in acrylic work this is true ).

Your NOT trying to use a buffer and compound to Sand the surface .. your MELTING it. Microscopically Rubbing out highs into the lows.

Yes it does take time to understand the nature of the gel or paint and how much pressure and how fast you should move your buffer around. Even which directions you should go.

Buffing out .. True buffing out is an Art-Form. Not just grab a buffer and such and such compound and go at it then it will look like a kazillion bucks. Oh no.. much more is involved sometimes.

The right angle drill is a good item to have when doing Detail work around cleats and other hardware that you either cant get to with a buffer .. or subject to having parts fly 40' away from your boat when hit with a high speed buffer ( like power port covers or small plastic fittings etc. ).

Breath out a bit there mate ..

The tools dont need to be high end ( unless your doing it for a living ) .. its more in the materials. Good materials will save wear and tear on your tools .. it will make the job go faster .. it will make the job come out Better. Materials are key when turning out good jobs.

Ok .. I guess im done with my schpeal ..

Peace.

YD.

 

[noideawhat]

Re: Can this amount of fade be "fixed"

Gonna sound dumb but I defiantly made it work with a drill and a 7 in pad ( McGuires, 16.00$,not 5$) I put a backing on my drill with a hook and loop pad, put the 7 in foam pad on and went to town. Worked like a charm for 13 bucks. Rather pleased with myself on this one.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Can this amount of fade be "fixed"

Gonna sound dumb but I defiantly made it work with a drill and a 7 in pad ( McGuires, 16.00$,not 5$) I put a backing on my drill with a hook and loop pad, put the 7 in foam pad on and went to town. Worked like a charm for 13 bucks. Rather pleased with myself on this one.

You buffed out your boat with a 7" pad on a Drill motor ? 3/8 or 1/2 in. ?

Got some pics of the adapters and pads .. what drill you used for this please ? .

YD.

 

[DeepBlue2010]

Re: Can this amount of fade be "fixed"

Yes Heat. You need Heat when you "Rub-Out" or Buff. Not so much when your Polishing or Glazing. Your goal is to Melt the surface and Rub/Smear it around ( Anyone that has knowledge in acrylic work this is true ).

Your NOT trying to use a buffer and compound to Sand the surface .. your MELTING it. YD.

I am puzzled by this statement YD. I have the highest regards to your experience but in all the seminars I attended and the videos I watched on the subject of buffing and polishing – especially with rotary buffer as opposed to DA - the advice was the 180 of yours.
“Let the product (the compound or the polisher) and the pad do the job not the heat or the pressure”
“Most of the damage – burn through – is caused by the Hercules type users”
And, for sure, it was about thinking of the process as a microscopic “sanding” process not “melting”
My personal experience proved the same as well. Before I buffed my 28 last season, I got my hand on a piece of boat scrap and divided into two sections. In the first section I let the “product/pad do the job” I applied a little pressure – just a tad over what the weight of the machine is capable of providing – and kept the machine as flat as I can. The second section, I was the Hercules of the buffing world (I think I saw/smelled smoke couple of times). Of course the results of the first technique were superior in every aspect and it was what I used to buff and polish my boat. I am wondering if subjectivity and the lack of quantification in your statements are the source of confusion for us. Sanding – at any grit – will generate heat. Heck, rubbing your hands against each other will generate heat. But, I am afraid, when you combine phrases like “You need heat” and “you are melting the surface” you are giving the impression that you are advocating/asking for Hercules style buffing. Would you care to share more thoughts on the subject?

 

[noideawhat]

Re: Can this amount of fade be "fixed"

Yatch Dr I thought a 7 in pad was plenty big worked great haven't done the whole thing yet just part of the bow to see if it would work right but it worked great. There's a drill adapter that you can get at canadien tire (up here, not sure where you would get it down there). That's just a 5 in black backing disk,comes with a chuck for the drill then the plastic plate screws in, then buy a hook and loop disk (velcro on steroids), one side sticks to the plastic backing disk then I got a black mcguires foam pad and stuck it on.... Voila, cheap buffer. I used 3m compound too

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Can this amount of fade be "fixed"

A drill motor will work, it may be a bit slow, and the drill may not survive the entire job, but give it a try.


This may be one of those jobs where it may be cheaper to buy the buffer and then have two tools. Becauses if you kill the drill motor you will need to buy another one, then if you want to buff the boat or something else later you still need a buffer.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Can this amount of fade be "fixed"

There is no melting of the surface when done correctly, we are dealing with a thermo set plastic, not a thermo formable one. You want the compound and the buffing pad to do the work. The idea is to allow the fine abrasive particles to cut the surface while generating very little heat. The pressure applied is rather subjective, one of the Ferecla (buffing compound company) instructors had a difficult time explaining the amount to the students, so he placed the buffer on a scale and it turned out to be around 5 pounds at the heaviest, then progressively lighter until the final buff.