Cell phones on airliners.

PatPatterson

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
May 23, 2004
Messages
640
Re: Cell phones on airliners.

God, I hope they don't allow it!!! I fly 20 - 30 times a year, for work. I carry a cell phone, and somehow, the office gets along without me for the 3 or 4 hours I am in the plane. <br /><br />It is already bad enough, watching the insufferable, self important, pompous idiots all flip open their phones as soon as the plane stops at the gate, because the calls they are making are just way too important to wait until they are inside the terminal.
 

kd6nem

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 25, 2003
Messages
576
Re: Cell phones on airliners.

Chairman Powell and his cronies are out to lunch, as they prove here once again. For them it is all about money, not serving the public as a whole or the realities of technology. Who will change the principles of physics that cause interference with navigation equipment? They do not possess that authority....<br />Can a workaround be found? Sure, with equipment entirely different than what we presently use and with much added expense. But that is already in place with the Airfones. Could be improved and made more affordable, that is certain. But why ask for public opinion when the real issue is technology and aviation safety? Mr. Powell is a lousy administrator. This is apparent by what he allowed to happen to the GMRS band and probably several other segments of the radio spectrum.
 

jimr

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Mar 21, 2004
Messages
723
Re: Cell phones on airliners.

I dont fly too often and am against it I have a phone but like others i dont want to hear other peoples calls. and besides like mentioned earlier if the plane is going down I dont care what the laws read i'll be using it.
 

TexomaAv8r

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Sep 15, 2004
Messages
329
Re: Cell phones on airliners.

My understanding is that the FAA has no objections to passengers, or pilots using cell phones, they dont interfere with anything. Nor does most of the other things you mentioned. The basics of air navigation have been arround for years, ADF is just a low frequency AM signal, VOR is a high frequency UHF signal, GPS uses satelites, INS uses gyros, Loran uses ground based radio signals and all theses are fairly safe from interference, and of course all good pilots rely on more than one way to naviagte as a redunency. Airliners are typiucaly under direct positive control, ie RADAR and radio communications and on an IFR flight plan and any good VFR pilot "ought to be" using pilotage and dead rekoning to back up whatever radio nav he is using in case of a failure to to check their accuracy. The nations VOR's are often several degrees off anyway.<br />The FCC's objection was about the towers and switching system you refered to. The TSA may have some half baked objection about terrorism or somthing, occaisionaly an airline crew will force a passenger to turn off their handheld GPS citing "national security" as the excuse.<br /><br /><br />
Originally posted by Bearcat Powered:<br /> <br />But here is my real objection, and I'm surprised that no one else has picked up on this yet: any digital & some analog devices may well cause interference to all or some of the many aircraft navigation systems. The pilot might as a result be thinking he is going where he is supposed to when he/she is actually encroaching on some other planes space- an unsafe situation to say the least. It has happened often enough to be way beyond a mere theoretical issue. Folks using a CD or MP3 player might not think twice, but there ARE documented cases of aircraft being a few miles off course because of radio frequency interference casused by these, cell phones, or laptop computers. Very dangerous in congested airspace! The most critical time is when approaching an airport, hence the admonition to turn off all appliances (including phones, gameboy devices, computers, EVERYTHING (even though it might well have no radio involved) because all these devices DO emit some mild radio energy, and that really sensitive navigation system needs to be telling the flight crew the right thing when they are taking that big 400 mph beer can full of people toward an airport.<br /><br />Maybe the question should be: Do you want your pilot to have trustworthy readings while he/she is doing an instrument approach with you or a loved one aboard? Might make a lot of folks take the warning more seriously if they understood that the warnings are actually given for a valid safety reason.
 

kd6nem

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 25, 2003
Messages
576
Re: Cell phones on airliners.

Texoma,<br />I'll have to dig some to find it, but I've seen technical articles on this as recent as this year. I'll let you know where if I can find them in a timely manner.<br /><br />Harmonics and intermediate frequencies (IF stage) of any sort of radio, including receivers, are detectable with a decent service monitor or spectrum analyzer if close enough. So is the hash from most digital appliances. There are way too many variables to say that this is of no consequence. The errors are not especially common but they do happen as the FAA has themselves have documented.<br /><br />I'm not sure what the FAA's (or FCC's for that matter) position is on this officially, but like many bureacracies there is sometime internal disagreement between the technical folks and the politcal ones. I understand that the airlines themselves have been given a certain amount of leeway to decide where to draw the line. But as a few have found out, it is less than desireable to have a problem while on an instrument approach.
 

TexomaAv8r

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Sep 15, 2004
Messages
329
Re: Cell phones on airliners.

All I know for a fact is that the 2004 FAR/AIm says nothing about cell phone use as far as the FAA is concerned. I suspect there are all kinds of "things" floating arround that influence nav aids. The most notorious is the venerable compass, everything effects that, accelerating, decerlerating turning, location on the planet, electrical equipment on board etc....the point is to be prepared for these things, double check your actual position with where you think you are and have a back up, relying solely on any one method is foley, regardless of cell phone interference or sunspots or anything else..<br /> :) <br /><br /><br />
Originally posted by Bearcat Powered:<br /> Texoma,<br />I'll have to dig some to find it, but I've seen technical articles on this as recent as this year. I'll let you know where if I can find them in a timely manner.<br /><br />Harmonics and intermediate frequencies (IF stage) of any sort of radio, including receivers, are detectable with a decent service monitor or spectrum analyzer if close enough. So is the hash from most digital appliances. There are way too many variables to say that this is of no consequence. The errors are not especially common but they do happen as the FAA has themselves have documented.<br /><br />I'm not sure what the FAA's (or FCC's for that matter) position is on this officially, but like many bureacracies there is sometime internal disagreement between the technical folks and the politcal ones. I understand that the airlines themselves have been given a certain amount of leeway to decide where to draw the line. But as a few have found out, it is less than desireable to have a problem while on an instrument approach.
 

SpinnerBait_Nut

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Aug 25, 2002
Messages
17,651
Re: Cell phones on airliners.

What about the onboard phones in the planes?<br />How do the transmit thier signal.?<br />I don't see any phone lines running from the plane back to earth.
 

kenimpzoom

Rear Admiral
Joined
Jul 13, 2002
Messages
4,807
Re: Cell phones on airliners.

Surely with all the right wing guys here, you are not suggesting the government should prohibit cell phone use strickly because they are rude?<br /><br />Should the governement also regulate that you cant use cell phones on trains or buses too?<br /><br />There is only one issue here, and that is safety.<br /><br />SBN, the way I understand it, airphones are wired, and then use an external antenna.<br /><br />The interference problem occurs when these radio waves are emmited within the aircraft.<br /><br />If you think that cell phones cant cause interference, talk on your phone and put it near your TV. You will see the interference.<br /><br />Ken
 

SpinnerBait_Nut

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Aug 25, 2002
Messages
17,651
Re: Cell phones on airliners.

Oh, ok Ken. The flying things I have been on don't seem to have a problem with them one way or the other. ;)
 

spratt

Lieutenant
Joined
Oct 13, 2004
Messages
1,461
Re: Cell phones on airliners.

Originally posted by Nate in AR:<br /> Too many Nazi's work at airports, therefore I dont fly. So I dont care either way. IMHO
Yeah, know whatcha mean...saw one of dem Nazi's the udder day!!! Talkin' on a cell phone 2!!!! In ENGLISH, mind ya!!! But you could tell by the glint in his eye he was a Nazi...the way he looked at ya...the way he watched every move...I thought at first he was an American, because of the perfect English he spoke...but DANG ME if he didn't turn out to be a Nazi!!!! I nver asked 'im, though, 'cause it was purty plain as teh nose on yer face what he wuz!!! Then DOGGONE if he didn't pilot that plane I hadda get on!!! I reckon that whole dang airline is run by Nazi's!!!! Those fools done got them an 'merican name too!!! Called themselves American Airlines....buncha furriners...
 
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