chemsets for tying steel pins to concrete

[Kiwi Phil]

I have to put 9 tables up in my Tunnel house.
Each table is 9m long, 1.8m wide, and 2.4m tall
Each table will have 10 legs (5 each size).
I want to use treated structural pine.
I need to secure each leg to the concrete floor, ONLY to stop sideways movement.

I am thinking I will drill 70mm (3") hole in the floor.
Drill a 100mm (4") hole up the bottom of the leg.
Cut a 10mm (3/8th??) solid round gal steel pin 170mm long (7")
Drop the pin in the hole in the concrete, and drop the leg down on to the pin left out of the concrete.

Checked out Chemsets to fixing the pin into the concrete.
I don't want the capsules...too expensive, but the tubes that go in the gun.

Ramset want $55 for 2 tube pack, but their gun is $75.

Questions:
Anyone done this before and got any tips or advice.
Anyone used another brand than Ramset.

I have 90 holes...pins...legs...to do.

Thanks
Cheers
Phillip

 

[beerfilter]

Re: chemsets for tying steel pins to concrete

Those are some tall tables , at 2.4 meters ( ~ 7 1/2' ) high !
What are you putting on them ?


I had to read your post twice before I realized you wanted the holes to be 10mm diameter .

The chemsets use an epoxy , not sure what the actual formulation is , though .

Honestly , as long as those tables have good bracing , and you are not using a forklift in there , you should be fine just setting the pins dry , in the concrete .

JMO

 

[Kiwi Phil]

Re: chemsets for tying steel pins to concrete

The tables will be 1.8m wide.

I am going to put a cross member at 300mm (12") above the floor, and this will be my 1st level growing bench (hydroponic pipes actually).
I will then repeat a 2nd growing bench 1m (39" ?) above that
I will then repeat a 3rd growing bench 1m above that.

So I am growing 3 storeys high.

It will be well braced.
I was going to use structural treated pine 38mm x 75mm as posts, and kiliwara h/wood 90mm x 19mm (a nice finished external decking timber) as my cross members. (nail gun).

Each table will be 1m apart.

Your suggestion of leaving the holes in the concrete dry is brilliant.
I never thought of that!!
I don't want to have to gorilla the pins into the concrete....if I flat'n or burr the top of the steel pins, then I am going to have to grind them smooth....I reckon I need the posts to slip over the pins, and not the pins burrs to split the timber if I have to hammer them down.

Definitely need the pins as the tables must be secured from side or end 'movement' or 'walk'.

If you have anymore suggestions, please feel free.

I suffer badly from tunnel vision so all comments are welcome.

This is a photo of the shed I built as a trial run early in the yr....it has worked pretty well....needs a little adjusting in spacing here and there.

I am moving away from 25mm (1") box gal steel.....it is expensive...I'm 60yrs and I have a lot of difficulty screwing the thing together....giving myself some severe muscle damage on the outside of my arms (biseps on inside....these injuries outside) and I was anti-inflamitories for a while after.
Any comments??
Thank you again.
Cheers
Phillip

 

[beerfilter]

Re: chemsets for tying steel pins to concrete

Not to shabby !

We used a float bed hydroponic system .
A 2' concrete walkway down the center , 4 30' long floatbeds on each side .

3/8" pins should drop into a 10mm hole with no problem ( 3/8" = 9.525mm ) .
Actual 10mm stock might take some persuasion , use a block of wood between the hammer and the pin so you don't damage the ends of the pins .
Use a piece of plastic tubing to blow the dust out of the hole before you set the pins , also .

If you are merely duplicating the steel frames in wood , let me suggest a few improvements .

Incorporate longitudinal members that run the length of the tables , on each "story" , and , diagonal bracing at each set of posts , at each middle story . This will greatly increase the rigidity of your tables .

Spend the time on the bracing and you will only need to anchor the middle and end posts on each table , saving you drilling and setting 36 anchors .

Galvanized nails will work fine , stainless steel screws are pricier , but better if you have the budget .

JMO

 

[Kiwi Phil]

Re: chemsets for tying steel pins to concrete

OK...what is a float bed system.....is that just a big tray that the plants float in, or is it a pipe or channel system that floats (not attached) on the table frame??

I'm going for a 1m walk way.....the one in the photo is .600mm wide and does not let enough light in to the centre.

I was going to use longitudinal bracing, down then centre of the top table.
I see now that won't be adequate.

Would 1 run down the centre of each story be sufficient, or one on each side.
What sized timber would you suggest?
Use the same for the diagonal?

I was going to use a nail gun.

Thank you
Ohillip

 

[BoatBuoy]

Re: chemsets for tying steel pins to concrete

Did something similar. For the 4"x4" verticles of my sundeck, I poured concrete pads. Drilled verticle holes about 6" deep in them and dropped a 3/8" piece of rebar in. It extends about 4" above the pad. Then drilled the 4x4 pine posts to set on top of the rebar. It can be lifted, but not shifted.

 

[triumphrick]

Re: chemsets for tying steel pins to concrete

Greetings, Phil. You said the legs would be treated lumber. Have you considered using a type of surface anchor such as these that could tapcon to the concrete and use nails or deck screws to anchor to the posts. They worked well for me for a small pole barn I built recently on an existing slab. These are for 4"x4" but other dimensions are available. Cheers.

http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/(k2flu5quogpldk3ua3oqry45)/ProductDetails.aspx?SKU=5309695

 

[Kiwi Phil]

Re: chemsets for tying steel pins to concrete

Thanks BB and Rick.

I was going to say no to both your suggestions, but after a lot of thought, I noticed a steel ceiling batten was used in my new shed, and that gave me a REALLY STUPID IDEA.

These are galvanized ceiling battens

Would it be stupid to
1. expect these battens to be used as posts, (or would the weight buckle them?)
2. then 1.8m cross-beams attached to posts (would they span that?),
3. and then 9m longitudinals, 2 on the top table (2.4m above ground) and 2 on the bottom table.
4. then use it for bracing.

I know it is probably a stupid idea, but that material screws together easily, and it would look good and tidy.
It is $1.18 lineal m.

Checked out lumber, and the local mill has
1. 75mmx38mm Rough Sawn treated pine Fence Rails in 4.8m lengths = $1.65 lineal m.
(perfect length as I am going 2.4 high)

2. The retail price for 70mmx35mm treated framing structural is $2.40 lineal m.

What do you reckon about using that rough sawn for everything??

Pricing is only a minor issue....it has to work, and if it costs me a few grand more, but lasts maintanence free for years, then I never cut corners.

I have taken short-cuts in the past, and always had to go back and re-do the job properly

Cheers
Phillip.

 

[beerfilter]

Re: chemsets for tying steel pins to concrete

OK...what is a float bed system.....is that just a big tray that the plants float in, or is it a pipe or channel system that floats (not attached) on the table frame??

I'm going for a 1m walk way.....the one in the photo is .600mm wide and does not let enough light in to the centre.

I was going to use longitudinal bracing, down then centre of the top table.
I see now that won't be adequate.

Would 1 run down the centre of each story be sufficient, or one on each side.
What sized timber would you suggest?
Use the same for the diagonal?

I was going to use a nail gun.

Thank you
Ohillip

Essentially , the floatbed system was a sand floor , with a thick plastic liner .
Unlike your house , there was only a small 6' x 12' concrete pad , offset to 1 side of 1 end of the house , for storage/work/prep. area .
A concrete walkway ran the length of each house .

The floor of the house was a layer of sand , over which was laid a thick plastic liner .
The beads were framed by treated 2" x 8" treated lumber .
The plastic was stapled to the top edge of the frame , with batten strips .

We would fill styrofoam trays with a soil medium , and , a seeder tray would then be use to drop the seed into each tray ( 288 per tray , IIRC ...) .
Trays were set into the floatbeds , now filled with 6" of water and soluble fertilizer , along with anti-fungals .

Think of your house as a lot of wading pools ....

Those steel battens are not going to work well , as posts .

You might use them for bracing , and / or horizontal members , if you have enough scrap pieces , though .

I would use 4" x 4'' treated posts , with 2" x 4" stock for all else . I might use 1" x 4" stock for diagonal bracing , if there was a budget crunch .

I do not know what kind of weight each of those hydroponic sets have , along with they biomass and soil medium , but , water is not light .

Follow your own experience , and , overbuild if there is any question .
I think you will do fine .

BTW , are you using those steel frames elsewhere , or , can you recycle them into your current project ?

 

[Kiwi Phil]

Re: chemsets for tying steel pins to concrete

Yep, you are right.
That steel ceiling batten is just too light for posts.
I get these stupid ideas....secret is to realise they are stupid before you start.
I am off to the lumber yard in 1hr so will let you know how I go.
I do like the steel ceiling battens for bracing though....

Cheers
Phillip

 

[Kiwi Phil]

Re: chemsets for tying steel pins to concrete

Been to the lumber yard.
This is what I think I will do....unless anyone has a better solution.

Use 78mmx35mm fully treated pine fence rails as posts, and use the same material as horrizontal cross-members (I need 3 as I have 3 levels/tables high).

I will not pin the posts to the concrete floor as I previous thought....rather I will run a further horrizontal cross-member at concrete floor level between the 2 posts.

I will drill 2 holes in the concrete approx 1.2m apart.....drop steel pins in, and correspondingly drill 2 holes in the cross-member, so I can just drop it on to the pins, then nail-gun the cross-member to the posts.

My reckoning is this....attaching this bottom cross-member to the floors with steel pins will have more strength and not weaken the posts....as I would have done in my previous idea.

I will do this only to the 1st and last set of posts.
If everything is braced properly, the 3 sets in the middle should be fine.

I will brace the hole thing using those steel ceiling battens.....I should be able to nail-gun them to the lumber.

I believe I need it secured to the floor....surprisingly, when the pump starts, the water pipes pulse....maybe only 1-2mm each time, (forward then back) but over years that small movement can make the frames 'walk'....not much.....but it is very time consuming straightening everything with the big hammer.

If anyone has constructive criticism, please comment.
I value your views.

Cheers
Phillip

 

[Kiwi Phil]

Re: chemsets for tying steel pins to concrete

beerfilter and others who have helped.

I went over and over and over this...it has to be right, and there for the long term.
Nothing is fixed to the steel frame of the tunnel house.

I have got the 3 level/story grow tables installed.
I used 75mmx50mm rough header pine (house frame) treated, as the posts.
In the end I went for L shaped steel feet on all 100 posts, with 10mm ramset bolts x 75mm long, but drilled thru the slab, so if they ever need removing, remove the nuts and hammer them thru.

The cross beams (horrizontal) were same timber but 75mmx38mm.

The bracing is the steel ceiling batten (top-hat profile). Seems to have done the job well.
There are 10 tables, each 3 storey, each 1.8m wide.
Tables run L to R.

The tables run L to R

I now have 5,500 Lineal metres of this channel to install.
It is actually a 65mm pressure pipe, but the profile has been changed so it has a flat bottom, just wide enough for my pots to sit on.
This means I have less of an area to cover with water, which means I need less flow...smaller pump...less power....reduce 90+% of evaporation....less loss of fertilizer.
Seems pretty in-material but will save over $5k in 1st yr.

Big issue I have now is....will it grow good product in middle of lower 2 tables (?? light levels).
All a bit of a risk, but I think I will be OK.
Turin will be scratching him head over this one!!

Cheers
Phillip