Chiropractors

one more cast

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Re: Chiropractors

lakelover, My first chiropractor told me if I had to keep coming back then he wasn't doing his job. He never set up a second appointment and the one I have now also leaves it up to me when/if I want to come back. I need to go every 4-6 weeks however or my neck becomes immobile.
 

20/20

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Re: Chiropractors

Originally posted by lakelover:<br />The many I've seen seem to want to prolong treatment as long as possible, bringing you back time after time as a source of income. For me, the hassle of always having to spend all that time on return appointments outweighed the benefits I was getting.<br /><br />Your experience may be different.
Very good point, JOB security. They can be used for simple problems but anything that is long lasting they won't be able to help.
 

TilliamWe

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Re: Chiropractors

Originally posted by Kwas:<br /> I have had very good results from chiropractors. Tilliamwe, If you have not ever been treated one or did any reading on the subject you have no idea. I can see where an insurance co may have a problem with it, they don't care to pay any claims. <br />
K, don't make statements like that. Not only is that last sentence false, it's ignorant. Unless you have worked claims, or done any reading on it, you have NO idea. :rolleyes: <br /><br />
My long term experience with chiropractors is that yes, they provide relief, but as far as long term relief, no. The many I've seen seem to want to prolong treatment as long as possible, bringing you back time after time as a source of income.
That's exactly what I was talking about. Thanks for making my point.<br /><br />
lakelover, My first chiropractor told me if I had to keep coming back then he wasn't doing his job.
And that is what my wife tells me her chiropractor has told her many times.<br />Dolluper, your situation is multiple injuries/ailments, so I guess I can see the "need" for multiple visits. And as you say, it's not the same thing every time. <br />The treatment "abuses" that I have observed are for the same exact adjustment, multiple times a week (sometimes multiple a DAY! Yes, I saw chiro records that listed three adjustments a day to someone that had "whiplash"). To me, that says it's not working. Or not being given enough time to work.
 

lakelover

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Re: Chiropractors

Originally posted by One More Cast:<br /> lakelover, My first chiropractor told me if I had to keep coming back then he wasn't doing his job. He never set up a second appointment and the one I have now also leaves it up to me when/if I want to come back. I need to go every 4-6 weeks however or my neck becomes immobile.
You're lucky to have gotten the good ones!
 

demsvmejm

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Re: Chiropractors

Prejudices abound here.<br /><br />QC, you made a good point that I think is one of the roots of public skepticism of Chiropractors, and that is that some think that Chiropractic Manipulations can cure all ills.<br /><br />However multiple visits are not unnecessary or frivolous. You can take your car to an alignment shop have the alignment set perfectly and then hit a pothole when you leave the parking lot and knock it out of whack again. The same goes for your back. Any patient education will explain the need for multiple adjustments. Not just Chiropractors will be able to tell you that as a vertebrae is pushed out of place it stretches muscles and ligaments. And over time it can actually cause the body to try and pull that joint back out when it is adjusted back in place. Probably the best option for manipulation v surgery advice is an Osteopathic doctor. DO's can do manipulations and surgeries so they have the knowledge and skill to determine which is best for you.<br /><br />OMC I'm sorry that you had a quack with the clicker. :( My Chiro uses that low pressure method, and also the manual manipulation when it is appropriate. I feel he is very skilled and the clicker is awesome. :) Last year I was working on my camper and caught my foot when I went to jump off. I twisted my ankle pretty much as far toward 90* as possible. I got back up and continued to work. When I finally quit my ankle and foot hurt so bad that I thought if I used my hand saw and cut it off it would feel better. I went in the next morning barely able to walk, more hopping on my other foot. Doc felt the ankle and CLICK CLICK. Within two hours I was walking as if nothing had happened. :cool: I still have a little soreness and stiffness in that ankle now, but after such a dramatic injury that is to be expected. OMC I am sorry, but just like the Chiro's themselves, there are good one with clickers and bads ones too. :( <br /><br />And TilliamWe, to insult Kwas for expressing what is so evident is ingorant in itself. Insurance companies are in business to make money. They don't make money by paying it out. You are maybe a little prejudiced having already worked in the insurance industry. It is a very well known fact, supported by numerous news reports, expose’s and government reports that insurance companies try to reduce claims as much as possible. But yes, they must pay some claims in order to stay in business. However to assert that insurance companies act purely altruistically in regards to the insured and claims, you must really think we are all ignorant.<br /> :confused: :mad:
 

TilliamWe

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Re: Chiropractors

As usual David, it is you who are wrong and almost completely ignorant. The statement that "insurance companies don't care to pay any claim" is absolutely false. Do you know why? Becuase as an insurance company employee, I cared to pay most, if not all the claims I was assigned. (and so did the 10 other people I worked with, and hundreds more thoughout the country). So therefore that statement is false when you try to apply it to every insurance carrier and every claim. <br />Just as "Chiropractors schedule all appointments just to make money" is not true according to others on here. See the logic? :rolleyes:
 

one more cast

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Re: Chiropractors

David, My Mom and many other people I know get much relief from the clicker thing. After I got clicked I couldn't even move my arms by the time I got back home. I called him up and was told that some soreness is normal. I hurt for about 3 days. I had a second appointment a week later and got clicked again. Half way home I couldn't move my arm again so I went back and had him undo what he did. It may have something to do with my Arthritis.
 

BRG25

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Re: Chiropractors

Best thing I ever did. I was having back pain for over a year and my chiropractor fixed me up after 3 visits with no drugs. His policy is for me to return only as needed. He also paticipates in my insurance network. $20 co-pay.
 

TilliamWe

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Re: Chiropractors

Can someone explain this "clicker thing" to me?<br /><br />BRG25, from what I am reading, it sounds as if that's the exact type of chiropractor that you want. One who works, but only sees you as necessary.
 

dolluper

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Re: Chiropractors

Clicker is a muscle stimulator ,looks like a big shringe with different pressure settings ,when it stimulates the muscle it goes click ,click ,click click hitting the muscle several times like each click ,so which makes it a clicker
 

demsvmejm

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Re: Chiropractors

Originally posted by TilliamWe:<br /> As usual David, it is you who are wrong and almost completely ignorant.
All hail the omniscient and perfect narcissist, TilliamWe. We are not worthy to reply his ever perfect post. :eek:
 

SpinnerBait_Nut

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Re: Chiropractors

If I am reading some of these post right, am I to think that insurance companies don't try to find every thing they can to keep from paying a claim?<br /><br />If that is the point some are making, must be different insurance companies than I know.<br />State Farm, and Nationwide come to my mind real easy as 2 that will look for any little item they can to keep from having to pay a claim.<br /><br />As far as the chiros go, I have never been to one, but the wife has after pinching a nerve and the Doc sent her to one and it didn't take but 2 visits and she was back to herself.
 

RetNav

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Re: Chiropractors

I have used a Chiro and will continue to use one when I deem necessary. When I go into his office barely able to walk without pain and after he does his voodoo (or adjustment) the pain is usually relieved and I am walking normal.<br /><br />I have been scheduled for multiple treatments for my problem in the past and after he explained the need it made perfectly good sense to me, so I kept the appointments. <br /><br />Frankly I don't care whether anybody else thinks it works, because for me it does.
 

Haut Medoc

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Re: Chiropractors

SBN, amen to that!<br />I think it is widely known that most insurance companies will make every effort to weasel out of making a payment.....<br />Nationwide is not, "On your side".....<br />& "Like a bad neighbor, State Farm don't care"...<br />I have had the displeasure of dealing with both..<br />They both suk! :mad: :mad: ......JK link
 

demsvmejm

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Re: Chiropractors

Originally posted by RetNav:<br /> I have been scheduled for multiple treatments for my problem in the past and after he explained the need it made perfectly good sense to me, so I kept the appointments. <br /><br />Frankly I don't care whether anybody else thinks it works, because for me it does.
That's all that matters after all is said and done. If it works for you, it is great, if it doesn't, good luck with the MD's.<br /><br />OMC, I am sorry if you took offense to my references. I really meant no disrespect. I am sorry if the low pressure "clicker" didn't work for you. With my ankle, I couldn't have tolerated any manual manipulation, it hurt too much. But with his clicker, the low pressure and thus lower pain procedure worked awesome. But if it makes your condition worse, that's all that matters, stay away. Use what works. And I am sorry if you were offended, as that was not my intention.<br /><br />And thanks SBN and HM for your testimony regardling your personal experiences with insurance companies. I referenced news articles and TV tabloid shows like "60 Minutes" but we all know how the liberal media twists the truth and outright lies to sell advertising spots.
 

txswinner

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Re: Chiropractors

Till, You said you were an appraiser, so you actually have no first hand experience handling Chiro claims. You simply have fallen into the age ole Chiro's are bad they cost us money program.<br /> <br />Open your eyes. Remember that the olympic team has several chiros with them and this QB with SF named Montana had a personal chiro that traveled with the team, and so did a fella named Aikeman. They must do some good.
 

TilliamWe

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Re: Chiropractors

tx, I fully explained my background and experience in my first post. No need to explain any more. Or to "open my eyes". I see quite clearly, thank you. That's why I have been asking questions. And actually reading the responses on here to see what others' experiences have been.<br />As far as athletes having chiros, so what? What they purposely subject their bodies to, doesn't make me want to emulate them. Between the anti-inflammatories (spelling?), pain killers, and alledged steroids & HGH, I wouldn't be surprised if they were willing to try Voodoo to cure their pains. It's the "regular" folks here that are giving Chiropractors credibility. I look forward to other responses to their personal experiences.
 

Manipulator

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Re: Chiropractors

Wow, it's been a while since I've been here. Since I'm the resident chiropractor ;) I will take a crack :D at some of your comments. First, let me start by saying all professions have their share or bad apples. For some reason when it comes to chiropractic, those bad apples seem to spoil the bunch. Let my answer the question "is it good to go to a chiropractor if you pulled your back out". Yes, we treat patients who "throw" or "pull" their back out all the time. We also treat patients with arthritis. In fact, 90% of all patients that enter the office are either one or the other. Chiropractic care works well for arthritis (degenerative arthritis or common called Osteoarthritis). When a joint becomes arthritic, it will lose function. This in turn causes nerve irritation, muscle spasms and pain. Chiropractic manipulation (or Adjustments) will restore function to the joint, reduce nerve pressure and will help relieve muscular spasms and reduce pain. It will also slow or stop the progression of the disease. It won't cure it (reverse it). Hey, it's a lot better than taking anti-inflammatory medications the rest of your life and destroying your stomach, liver and kidneys. Did you know that the number one reason for renal (kidney) failure in adults over 65 is due to Ibuprophen (Motrin)? :eek: <br /><br />As far as insurance goes (claim injury) there are plenty of professions who "Milk" the system. I will agree that there are chiropractors who do this :eek: just like there are medical doctors, physical therapists, hospitals and attorney's that also do it. It does not make it right, but come on, let's not single out chiropractors. Besides, insurance companies typically take advantage of everyone. Maybe if they played fair, everyone else would. :mad: <br /><br />Why do patients need multiple adjustments? Why does it take time? Well, it's similar to someone who gets braces. Do their teeth straighten over night? Nope. Is your spine any different? Doe's the person have to periodically go to the orthodontist to have those bands tightened? Yes they do. It takes time and pressure to straighten teeth and it takes time and adjustments (pressure) to straighten your spine. <br /><br />If a patient is acute (fresh injury) and having a lot of pain then coming into the office twice in a day is not unheard of. Three times is a bit excessive. This should only be for the first 1-3 days and that's it. So "why isn't one ot two treatments in a week (trauma situation) or a once a month followup, good enough?" If you get sick and your doctor prescribes an antibiotic do you take two in a week and then another in a month? It's the same with pain medication for an injury. This care we offer is a prescription of care just like a prescription for medication. Typically 3X weekly for 4-6 weeks and then a re-evaluation. Upon re-evaluation we typically have met some of our goals (pain reduction, increased activity without an increase in pain, increase range of motion, decreased muscle spasm, patient back to work etc). Therefore the treatment frequency is reduced. The reason this person is skeptical is because he does not understand it. <br /><br />"A good one can work wonders and a bad one can cripple you." I have never heard of a chiropractor crippling anyone. There are associated risks like there are with any medical procedure but this is almost unheard of. If this were a problem you would be seeing reports on the News all the time. This is not the case.<br /><br />"There are pro's and con's It can help some while it very easly could hurt others." Easily hurting someone is a rather bold statement. Chiropractic care is not without risk but chiropractic malpractice rates are amongst the lowest in the country compared to other doctors. There is a reason for this. If chiropractors were hurting all these patients we surely would be hearing about it more often which is not the case. <br /><br />"I have 12 disc with damage and if I went to a chiro that was half lame in the head there'd be a could chance of them screwing me up for life{more then I am}. If someone has a back problem that doesn't go away{lame legs etc..}I would strongly say don't go to a chiro, instead go to a doc and find out what the problem is. This is like anything else check into the pro's and con's before you jump in. Most of all don't forget most of these folks are out for the allmighty dollar.<br /><br />Not sure what "12 disc" means. You have 12 screwed up discs or you are talking about the 12th disc in you back? Chiropractors are trained in full body diagnosis so patient's can rest assured they will be properly diagnosed. Chiropractors complete eight academic years of education and some who sub-specialize complete more. After this they must pass four national board exams and then a state license board examination. Thats more than medical doctors have to pass. Although some chiropractors might be money motivated, like other professions, most are not. I could make the same statement with regard to boat mechanics. <br /><br />"He claimed (and I have seen it elsewhere) that they can cure ear infections . . . "<br /><br />Chiropractic care cannot cure an ear infection only an antibiotic can do that. Children typically get fluid that accumulates behind the ear drum. This fluid sits back there and becomes stagnate and becomes an excellent place for bacteria to multiply. Also, the angle of the ear canal (eustation tube) in children limits proper drainage. The angle changes as the person grows and this is typically why children grow out of ear infections. Chiropractic care or manipulation to the neck helps the fluid drain. <br /><br />"My long term experience with chiropractors is that yes, they provide relief, but as far as long term relief, no. The many I've seen seem to want to prolong treatment as long as possible, bringing you back time after time as a source of income. For me, the hassle of always having to spend all that time on return appointments outweighed the benefits I was getting."<br /><br />Typically there is no such thing as a cure for back pain. Whether its medication, surgery or chiropractic. Most people with back pain typically have it all their lives. Many of my patients do get long term relief (2-3 months). That is long term when someone has a spine riddled with osteoporosis and degenerative arthritis. Most of the patients we see have osteoarthritis, which is a disease that progresses if untreated. Remember, I mentioned earlier that we can help slow or even stop its progression. That is why patients need to return. It's like going to see your dentist periodically. <br /><br />"Can someone explain this "clicker thing" to me?"<br /><br />The clicky thing is what is called an "Activator". It is a spring loaded adjusting <br />instrument.<br /> <br /> http://www.activator.com/patent_info.asp Patients either love it or hate it. <br /><br />TilliamWe ,I 'am on a treatment plan 3 visits per week for one month ,then an examination,then twice a week for a longer period ,examination,then once a week all in total 91 adjustments they throw in 10 additional free LOL over the coarse of a year.My neck and shoulders are real bad,as my lower back,years of bending and pulling on wrenches plus car ,motorcycle accidents.Getting my legs crushed between two cars........So for me I fell it is well worth the money as I finally have RELIEF from alot of my pain that other Quaks couldn,t do accept with pain killers tempory relief<br />edit: I forgot to say it isn't all the same adjustments are different ,they do muscle stimulation,adjustments to lower back ,neck,shoulders very professinal but I guess there has to be some Quaks in the trade also<br /><br />Dolluper, stay away from chiropractors that tell you to come in for 91 visits. :eek: That is absolutely ridiculous and a total scam. :mad: How does your chiropractor know you need 91 visits? Is he psychic? I bet he tells everyone they need 91 visits. He is either really bad at what he does or he duping you. Move on! There are some chiropractors that scare patients into long term care plans, even make them prepay for a year of care. :eek: Take my advice, get a new chiropractor. My treatments typically do not go beyond 36 treatments and that is for someone who has some serious problems.
 

TilliamWe

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Re: Chiropractors

Very good insights Mani. Thanks<br /><br />
Besides, insurance companies typically take advantage of everyone. Maybe if they played fair, everyone else would. <br />
You are getting into "chicken or the egg" territory there. ;)
 
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