Complete novice wondering about what to look for in a boat (offshore California)

[OllieC]

I would look at something like what southkogs pointed out. A larger Center console type, Boston Whaler/Grady White would work too. There's plenty of room for gear and crew for day trips. 30 plus feet will probably get you dual outboards which can get you back if you have a problem with one of the motors.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Hi all,
Thank you for all your advice. I appreciate the straightforward answers—I was definitely a little wary of salespeople, as I feel like they sometimes have other agendas to advance.

Again, I'll answer questions, but then I have more of my own

1) Our shark cage is small and collapsible. It's more for extra safety than because we think we'll be around sharks... we're certainly not targeting sharks, and if we think there's one around nobody is going into the water, but since we'll be around their prey we have to be aware that one could wander by. I can check the direct measurements shortly, but it's big enough for one diver and a camera when assembled, and when it's collapsed, I think it's about... 4 feet by 1 foot by 1 foot? It fits into a bag that was originally designed for one of those large, family camping tents. It's also open at the top, and we just lower it into the water by hand, so no pulling gear necessary. Now, of course, I'm realizing that I should have said all these things, because how would y'all know that I didn't mean one of those giant commercial cages? Our is small, and just designed to let one person slip underwater. However, it's set up so that we have a "track" that it slides down on, and we would need to bolt that track to the side of the boat, so it would be hard to "rent" a boat and do things like that (we'd also want to bolt a lot of other things and otherwise modify the vessel). So, I think this got three questions in one! Cage is small and will not take up very much space at all. It's really just to get footage right next to the boat, and while it won't stop an attacking shark, it's designed to both give the diver a sense of security, and slow down any shark that happens to want to attack our diver, so that we have time to pull them back onto the boat, because they'll be right there.

2) I don't know exactly how many people. Our team is ~10, but only half of us max will be out at one time. Most of the time, it will be three people max: a pilot, and two researchers. However, there will be times when it would be nice to get 5-6 of us out at once, so I would say, any boat definitely needs to be comfortable for 3 people, and we could deal with being cramped a few times every few months if we need to squeeze 5 or 6 of us on? The core team is small, but we're collaborating, so if our colleagues ever want to fly in and spend a day or two collecting their own data... probably better to plan for 3 the overwhelming majority of the time (two of us and a pilot), but then 5-6 maybe 5/6/7 times a year or so.

3) We probably won't need a generator. If we did, it would be small, but for the most part, I think solar and battery will be the way to go.

4) We won't need more than 2 sets of dive gear on the boat 99% of the time. Mine all fits in a backpack (minus my tank), so that times two.... and then, rarely, one more set.

5) Bathrooms! I don't think bathrooms will be necessary. This is the kind of thing that maybe perfectly explains what I'm trying to describe, and doing a terrible job of expressing myself. We are a team of field workers—we're the data collectors who go out and observe the animals, as opposed to the (equally important) scientists who do much more academic lab work. All of us have spent months at a time living in the woods, or the snow, and things like bathrooms just aren't worth paying for. When I was talking about the aluminum/fiberglass distinction, I noticed that a lot of aluminum boats just don't have the infrastructure that fiberglass seems to have. Fiberglass boats seem to have "cabins" and "heads" and "decks" and stuff, whereas aluminum boats just seem to be simpler boats. Seats, and storage. I've worked with many of these team members before, and our bathroom system is a 5 gallon home depot bucket. You line it with a trash bag, and put some kitty litter in it, and you're good to go Which is my long-winded way of saying that we don't need a bathroom. We honestly need a platform that will get us there and back. And that's it. That being said, your point about shelter is well taken. I think if the shelter is for things like getting out of the sun or the wind, we'll be fine, but if it's more because, "if a big waves comes, you'll be swept out to sea unless you're inside a shelter", that's a whole different story.


So, I guess what I'm trying to say is, we need about enough space as your average 4-5 person boat might offer—we don't have much in the way of "gear" beyond what might be normal, but we WILL need to modify the craft, and will need to freedom to bolt, break, ruin, etc. this boat. We don't even need seats (although they would be nice!), we just need to get out there and back safely.

If you all don't mind, I have a few more questions:

First, thanks for the link to the boat. Unfortunately, that is something that is SO far above a reasonable ask for a grant as to have me worried. A quarter of a million dollars... I guess this is why I asked for ballpark numbers, because if I'm looking at a cost anywhere near there, this is just not feasible.
I'm wondering about something that was said earlier.... the idea that almost any craft could get out on a "perfect day". I'm now rethinking this project... since I haven't spent much time out west, I don't know how often these "perfect days" happen. Are we talking a few times a year? A few times a month? A few times a week? For example, there is no way we can afford a 250k commercial vessel. But we may be able to rewrite the grant for more of a.... like 4 year project, but collecting data less often. If we could get out 1-2 times a week fairly regularly, but extend the time, maybe that wouldn't totally screw with the results. That remains to be seen, but at the moment, I'm kind of grasping for anything possible, as there is honestly no way this grant will get approved if we will need a 250k boat.

Thanks again for all your input! Again, really appreciate the blunt feedback. If it can't happen, it can't happen... such is the life of us grant-writing science monkeys

1.) if you have a shark cage, your going to need a dive boat with a small boom. at this point vs buying a boat, your best bet is to search around and lease a boat and its crew
2.) 5-6 people plus boat crew and gear puts you into a boat over 30'
3.) solar power and a battery bank wont cut it. the boat is going to need a genny if your using any amount of power. solar panels need to be aimed directly at the sun. an array of 300 watt solar panels (about 2' x 5') are only 100% efficient when aimed directly at the sun on a crystal clear sunny day. clouds happen, and so does a boat bobbing in the water.
4.) weights, tanks, BC's, fins, etc. take room. you cant store them in the bilge, so your storing on deck.
5.) regarding the head, you may want to check into that. no discharging period if your within 12 miles of shore. your going to need a head or your going to need a lot of money for the fines. The good news is that a porta-potty is almost standard on most boats over 22' with any sort of cabin.

to get out 1-2 times a week your going to need a good boat and crew. since your not going to get a 250k grant, I strongly suggest looking into talking to the charter captains and getting a discounted long-term contract. then you have fixed costs which you can easily get a grant for and you dont have to have an experienced boater among the data collection staff

 

[GA_Boater]

I do think an enclosed head is needed if the crew is mixed. Out in the woods, you have trees and bushes - On the ocean, not so many. Sure you can use the plastic bag lined bucket, everybody turn their heads and don't look.

The novice crew is a good question. Don't ever stand downwind in a stiff breeze when they show what they had for breakfast.

The boat needs some power. 5MPH when a fast moving storm pops up and shore is 8 miles away - That's an hour and a half to get ashore if you can get to top speed.


We are trying to be practical with all the ideas.

 

[southkogs]

... somewhere along the read, and I can't find it now ... I thought the OP said they had a "not-so-novice" boater that was helping with the project. That's the person I'm suggesting review some walk-around cuddys with them. For clarity

 

[GA_Boater]

We would budget for an experienced boater to do the actual piloting/driving, but since we don't know if we will get the grant, and don't know which university/institution we would be operating through, we haven't started looking for one yet.

What I'm gathering from this is that you are suggesting that experience in that particular stretch of water is absolutely necessary for safety... our plan is to find someone who might be an experienced boater, but would be willing to pilot our research-specifc boat for those years.

SK - I think the experienced boater/pilot is still in the future. This is very much in the early planning stage.

 

[SoCalBoatGuy]

Is working with Scripps Institution of Oceanography an option? I see they have grants for their ship time: https://scripps.ucsd.edu/ships/uc-ship-funds-program

Also, check out their fleet (just for comparison) https://scripps.ucsd.edu/ships/scripps-fleet

 

[acarleson]

Southcogs: Thank you for the boat suggestion. I will use that as a general guide for the future! And thanks for the note about the extra costs?always good to remember to factor those things in!

ImperialVC200: Thanks for your response. Two main questions: One, again, this is my ignorance, but... when you say 30' "class", are you referring strictly to length? Or is there actually a "class" of boat called "30 foot"? And, if that's just length, is length the only factor? For example, I am seeing a number (well... some) of older 30'-ish boats, but since they're older, they don't seem to have a "deep V" all the way back. Many of them have a "deep V" up front, but it tapers off so that by the stern, it's almost entirely flat. Would this be considered a "30-foot class" simply by virtue of length, or is the "30 foot class" referring to a general style of boat?ones that happen to be 30-ish feet, but that also have "open water" features like a deep V all the way back to the stern, or a lot of freeboard, etc.?
And second, just so I have a frame of reference of what we would be dealing with, what is typically considered to be a "normal" day? I assume perfect is flat and sunny... but is a normal day more like, some waves and wind? Or is normal out in the pacific ocean more like gigantic waves the size of houses and lightning and storms and such?

JoLin: I guess it depends on what you mean by "novice". I think we've all spent time on boats?I lived on a boat for a year for my last research project (although not in the open pacific), and others have spent time on boats in other capacity. My partner owns a boat and does a lot of boating in the SF Bay Area, although he says that his boat just isn't well equipped to handle the open ocean (he stays in the bays, apparently) and so doesn't trust himself to take on the responsibilities of a Captain, as he's never spent much time out in the open ocean. I guess what I'm trying to say is that, insofar as knowing our physical abilities (i.e. knowing what we do and don't need to be comfortable, knowing that we either won't get seasick or can handle it), we are not "boating novices". We are all knowledgable about how to live on a boat and boating safety and all that, but I hear that the open pacific is a different animal altogether. None of us have experience piloting a boat in the open pacific, and I'm trying to figure out if this lack of pacific-specific experience is a death sentence for the project.
Regarding the gear and space: for reference, during my last project, I lived on a boat for a year, but we mostly anchored the large one and would take a small metal boat out to do the actual data collection. Same kind of deal?3/4/5 days a week, usually for 8+ hours at a time, and we fit basically the same crew (different people, but usually 4 of us) and all of our gear (and our bucket toilet! Fun!) into this little boat, which I would guess was about 10 or 12 feet long. We weren't around sharks, so we didn't have the cage track bolted on, but other than that the gear list (dive gear, laptops, batteries... we had everything) was very, very similar. I think space-and-gear limitations should not be the deciding factor for scientists who are VERY used to being cramped. That being said, obviously, even I know that 12 feet is too small for the pacific. I think I'm wondering what the minimum size limit ought to be in terms of safety, without worrying so much about the space needed for the gear. If it was safe, we could easily make this work in a 12 foot rowboat we certainly don't need upholstered seats or a fridge or toilet or anything!

But your comment about a heavy boat swinging around is well taken.... not something to wave off, that's for sure. As a side note: I don't know what I was expecting as far as weight, but six tons is way more than I would have expected. Yikes. Which brings up another question: if we're talking 30-foot-class, are we in the realm of "leave your boat at a dock somewhere", or "pull it behind a truck"?


Scott Danforth: Thanks for all the info! Some replies and thoughts and more questions on your replies to 1 and 2:
1) I feel like I'm not doing a good job of describing the shark cage, which is my fault, and not on any of you. It's certainly not an industrial shark cage, it more like a collapsible frame that sits right next to the boat. When folded, it takes up about the same amount of room as a school backpack... I only mentioned it in my earlier posts because part of using the cage entails bolting a track to the side of a boat. This was a consideration when trying to decide whether it would be more prudent to rent vs. buy... can we really bolt all kinds of tracks and holders onto a leased boat? But we certainly won't need a boom or a dive boat. Our requirements are minimal... as I say, we really just need some platform to get us there and back. Our ideal situation would be a safe "shell" of a hull, with seats and a motor, but nothing else?no unnecessary furniture, no fridge, no sink or toilet... simple. If it's not for safety, we don't want it!

2) Thanks! That seems to be the consensus. I wonder if... I get that 30' is appropriate for 5-6 people. I think maybe I'm asking two separate questions, and perhaps I could officially split them into two distinct questions. Question one: given that one will be 6/7/8 miles off the coast of San Francisco, what is the minimum safe craft required to get out there... most days. So, in this scenario, I'm assuming an experienced pilot, and one passenger, with no need for "practicality". Don't worry?I'm not going to take this "minimum" and run with it! I just like to understand things on a fundamental level. I want to understand, if I'm a good boater who knows the area, what am I looking for in a boat? This will tell me a lot. Why is this question important? I think you guys have all been great about recommending a boat for my specific purposes (which, by the way, is question two!), but I also want to understand more than just one circumstance. So, if I know that, for my purposes, a 30' boat with X amount of freeboard and X amount of deadrise is optimal, that's great, and you guys are being fantastic about sharing that info. But if all I know is that a 30' boat is needed for 5-6 people, that doesn't tell me what's needed for 3-4, or 1-2, or 7-8. But if I know what's needed for 1-2 people, and I know what's needed for 5-6 people... I can figure the rest out. Like, if a 30' with 20 degrees of deep V deadrise is good for 5-6 people, it makes a big difference whether 1-2 people needs more like... a 10' with a flat bottom, or a 29' with 19 degrees of deep V deadrise, you know? So then, the second question would be what's appropriate for my situation, and I think that's becoming clear. And, thanks again for your detailed reply!

GA_boater: Thanks, that's good reference! Curious.... how quickly should I be anticipating these boats moving? I feel like I see boat zipping along sometimes, but I guess I don't know about 30-foot-class fishing vessels!

Everyone else: Sorry for the confusion. I kind of alluded to it above, but we've all spent time in and around boats, but are all what I would consider "novice" in all of the important senses of the word. We know very little about boat design, and know ZERO about this stretch of the pacific. So the plan is to a) get solid advice on things like whether to rent or buy, solid advice on what kind of boat and what to look for if we decide to buy, etc (which is where y'all come in!); but then, also, the plan at the moment is to nab a pilot/captain from whatever our host institution is. Since we haven't gotten the grant yet, that's far in the future, but the general idea is that we WOULD definitely work with someone who knows what they're doing! Which actually brings up another question: Is it enough to be an experienced open water boater, or would one need experience with this particular stretch of ocean? Typically, we would use a captain that someone on the team is familiar with and had worked with before, but that would probably be someone who hasn't spent time boating in the pacific. Are open-water boating skills generally transferrable, or should we be thinking about finding someone with actual experience off this stretch of coastline?


One more question, and it's a dumb one. As I've been looking around, I'm noticing that a lot of longer boats are sailboats. I'm guessing sailboats aren't the right craft for the open ocean, right? Some of them have mounts for an outboard, and they seem long enough, but nobody is recommending them. I take it they're just the wrong style?

Thanks again, everyone! Your honest feedback is really, really appreciated

 

[southkogs]

One more question, and it's a dumb one. As I've been looking around, I'm noticing that a lot of longer boats are sailboats. I'm guessing sailboats aren't the right craft for the open ocean, right? Some of them have mounts for an outboard, and they seem long enough, but nobody is recommending them. I take it they're just the wrong style?

Impractical more than anything else ... you can't control your travel rate very well (outboard is really only for maneuvering into your slip and getting you back in when something goes horribly wrong), and for all of the size of the boat your cockpit space is pretty limited. Lots of rigging in your way.

If you could find the right catamaran sailboat, it might work but not as functionally as a power boat.

 

[alldodge]

I'm going to suggest another method to find the answers your looking for and it should be much easier for both sides to understand. Go down to the local Pacific coast fish market. Ask the local folks which Captain would they recommend as having the most experience, in most cases they will mention 2 or 3 names.

Now find the Captains and ask if you can buy them a beer or such to ask some questions. My guess is they will accept and you can get some direct one-on-one answers. The guy or gal may fill you in on some stuff you haven't even thought about and reasons why.

 

[acarleson]

Southkogs: Thanks for the info! For some reason, when I look at sailboats, they just seem much tippier, but I'm gathering that's not the case. That being said, that question was more for personal knowledge, as I suspected they were impractical, as you say. Glad to know, though!

AllDodge: Thank you for the tip! I hope to be able to do that at some point, but I guess I didn't mention, I am currently not in San Francisco. I would just be working there for the duration of the project! If things look likely to happen, that seems like a great idea and well worth a trip out there, but that would be far in the future. But your advice is well taken?I will definitely file it away as something I really, really should do at a later date!

 

[alldodge]

Are you near any of the ocean coast?

 

[77GlastronMT]

This may be a bit small but maybe it'll work? http://gsaauctions.gov/gsaauctions/aucitsrh/?sl=91QSCI17066320. You will definitely want an experienced captain/pilot, that could save your life. You are asking good questions, keep asking. My thoughts, and I am not an experienced Captain, but I do have experience piloting a Navy vessel, is that you need to be thinking worst case scenario, what if a storm comes through while you are out? Like you said, there are people who ride jet ski's that far off shore but I definitely wouldn't recommend it. So you need to plan for the worst and hope for the best. You'll end up paying more upfront but that cost could be easily overcome by an injury or, heaven forbid, a death due to bad weather in a small boat that worked fine in good weather. I wish you the best of luck, you seem willing to learn and listen and that is important. AllDodge had a great idea, talking to local Captains. I know you aren't on the west coast but maybe a short vacation/fact finding trip will be in order.

 

[brian4321]

http://forums.iboats.com/forum/gene...ine-topics/27384-boat-sizes-for-ocean-fishing

 

[brian4321]

I know the activities of these people aren't same as yours, it's still a good read

 

[Old Ironmaker]

A most interesting thread, we can all learn from your questions Amy. As a scientist you know there are no dumb questions just dumb answers. You are getting some great info here for not so dumb questions.

The first thing that comes to mind reading your questions is the mention of budget. You say 250K is out of the question but I haven't read what your budget is. That is the most important thing when shopping for a vessel.

I wouldn't get hung up on glass vs. aluminum. Both have wood stringers and transoms that are susceptible to rotting. From what you say I don't know if you know that. Aluminum may be even more susceptible to rotting as rivets and even welds fail and water enters the bilge. For 'Big Water" and you don't get any bigger than the Pacific glass has it's advantages and most of which is stability in rough seas. The beam and draught of a boat hasn't been mentioned, they iare as important as length. The drawback to glass is operating costs. They are much heavier than Aluminum thus weight to power ratio is higher which results in greater fuel costs than Aluminum, much higher. Aluminum has less stability in rough seas resulting in greater flex that then may cause hull leakage. Going out 3 to 5 days per week is not your typical weekend boater. Operating costs are going to be much higher than for most weekend pleasure boaters. This schedule will result in much higher maintenance as well plus I would say you should be dealing with twin marine engines regardless of outboard or inboard/outboard (I/O). It would be prudent to have someone on your team be able to do the day to day maintenance or you will be looking at $100.00 per hour rates, most likely higher in SF. I feel much more comfortable 15 miles offshore here when I bring my friend fishing and he just happens to be a marine mechanic. And he has had to help twice so far, once for a broken steering cable 9 miles out. As well if your vessel is sitting waiting for maintenance at a Marina or Marine you are loosing valuable time doing what you do on the water. Going out 3 or more days per week would require a slip for a 30 foot or larger vessel. I haven't been to San Francisco for a few years but I couldn't believe the cost of living there. I would venture a guess that a slip at a Marina is a large dip into the operating budget. You aren't trailering a boat every day to and from the launch. If you are add 50K for a truck than can plus trailer. I wouldn't rule out a large inflatable such as a Zodiac. They are the boat of choice in many of our rescue vessels here on Erie for both Coast Guard and our local Sea Rescue teams. I have seen some with twin 300 horsepower outboards used here. They can easily carry a dozen Navy Seals so it should handle 5 scientists and gear. I'm not suggesting one just not ruling one out if the price is right.

As far as size of the vessel suitable for the Pacific I may help a bit since we live and boat the Canadian side of Lake Erie 90% of the time and Lake Ontario the other 10%. I thought I had boating experience until I started boating here on the inland seas called the Great Lakes. I don't care if you are 50 miles offshore or 5 miles, breakdowns and bad weather happens. Unless one can swim the 8 miles off shore you speak of the distance is a mute point. Being retired and living on Erie I can "pick my days" to go out. Lake Erie is notorious for bad weather and rough seas due to the shallow depths here. This year there have been times we haven't been able to go out for 2 week stretches because of rough water and this is on a 24 foot Cuddy Cabin vessel. Don't forget a 5 foot wave doesn't include the belly so if the Marine forecast is for 5 footers you add another 5 feet to the belly and you really have a 10 footer to deal with. Someone with more knowledge may rebut this but that is what I have learned. If you are like any of the Scientists I have had the pleasure to work with patience getting into the field isn't one of them so picking the right days will be tough for you, safety first, second and last.

Your ideal vessel would be what the research Scientists use here. They convert 35 to 40 foot steel fishing tugs that have been retrofitted with all the gear specific to there marine field. Most all have twin diesel power and onboard generators. Most of the Canadian Coast Guard units have one or more of this type of vessel. Some new. I have seen a few for sale after their mission has been completed and at a fairly good price. I wonder what the shipping cost to the west coast would be? You are the Scientist, think outside the box. Size, condition, and power for boats rules. For whatever vessel you are serious about buying get a reputable Marine surveyor to look at it, it can be the best money spent.

Keep those "dumb" questions coming because you haven't asked one yet. Oh and get a boat with seats, you will thank yourself afterwards, believe me.

 

[acarleson]

Hi everyone, thank you for all the replies so far. I was away for the weekend, but it looks like I have a lot of new material to read through and consider. I'll have more questions very, very soon! Just wanted to say thanks again and let you know that I'm still around and still reading, despite being gone for a few days

 

[Old Ironmaker]

Amy Carleson said,

Regarding the gear and space: for reference, during my last project, I lived on a boat for a year, but we mostly anchored the large one and would take a small metal boat out to do the actual data collection. Same kind of deal?3/4/5 days a week, usually for 8+ hours at a time, and we fit basically the same crew (different people, but usually 4 of us) and all of our gear (and our bucket toilet! Fun!) into this little boat, which I would guess was about 10 or 12 feet long. We weren't around sharks, so we didn't have the cage track bolted on, but other than that the gear list (dive gear, laptops, batteries... we had everything) was very, very similar. I think space-and-gear limitations should not be the deciding factor for scientists who are VERY used to being cramped. That being said, obviously, even I know that 12 feet is too small for the pacific. I think I'm wondering what the minimum size limit ought to be in terms of safety, without worrying so much about the space needed for the gear. If it was safe, we could easily make this work in a 12 foot rowboat we certainly don't need upholstered seats or a fridge or toilet or anything!

I have to question whether you mistyped that you 3 or 4 guys worked in a 10 or 12 foot long boat. With 4 adults on a 12 foot "tinny" (the word boaters use for a small aluminum boat) you are close or have exceeded capacity, in other words you are close to sinking it. Even a 14 foot boat with 4 adults plus dive gear, laptops, batteries, and your Home Depot 5 gallon toilet the boat has sunk. And you talk about bolting a Shark Cage track on if there were Sharks in the area but you say you weren't around Sharks otherwise you would have added a Shark Cage to your 10 or 12 foot metal boat? If it was indeed a small metal boat you would have sunk it as soon as you loaded it and the 3 or 4 of you got into it.

I'm sorry but there are things here that do not make a lick of sence to me. For someone that worked on a boat for a year something smells fishy. If you worked 3 to 5 days on the water for a year on both a small and larger boat you should be answering our questions. That's around 1600 hours if you took 2 weeks off for vacation. I apologize for my doubt here but after spending a year in a 12 foot boat 3 to 5 days a week you would refer to the boat as aluminum not metal and know that an overloaded boat that small would sink. My years of investigative work and a few years of investigations working for The Ontario Ministry of Labour my investigative skills have kicked in. After spending 1500 or so hours on any vessel you should have some idea as to what you need after living a year on the water. Nope something is amiss here. You are asking questions as if you have never been on a boat a day in your life.

I hope I am wrong because it's not funny. But then again I have heard some strange things from Research Scientists. I really hope I'm wrong.

 

[acarleson]

Hi everyone:

Got a chance to read through all the great comments. Definitely very appreciated. Here we go:

AllDodge: I am on the east coast at the moment, and near enough to a coast. However, I have to ask?is that info relevant to the west coast? I assume that it'll translate somewhat, but I also think the pacific has a reputation for being bigger and rougher. So i guess my question is: whatever they say, how much of a grain of salt should I take it with?

brian4321: that page you referenced was really helpful. It actually gave me a lot to think about... I have some questions about things that got brought up in those posts!

In that post, they mentioned distance a lot. 30-40 miles... "just a few miles..." etc. I was under the impression that once you were out past maybe a mile or so, wherever it would be too far to swim to shore, you were in "open ocean" and it didn't really matter if you were 2 miles out or 200 miles out. I guess in terms of a rescue or something, 2 miles is really different from 200 miles, but what about in terms of waves? Are the waves and wind much more powerful further out? Is this power fairly gradual, or more exponential? I'm asking because I am guessing we'd be ~8 miles out. Realistically, we could do more like 3 or 4, if that would make a significant difference (probably). I guess I'm just not familiar with what it means to be 3 miles offshore vs 8 miles offshore vs 30-40 miles off shore. Are these the same boats, or different altogether?

I also have some questions about some things said in those posts. There were some things said like, "when a craft advisory is up, a 16footer is about as small as I would go" and "i'd feel okay in the ocean in anything from a 14' aluminum on up" and "I use a 21' closed-bow runabout in 10 foot seas". Are these people just being insane, or am I missing something? Will the seas in the pacific be bigger than 10 feet?

Lsat question about those posts: Something in there (can't find it now) implied that the tides make a difference. Is this true?


Old Ironmaker: You have two posts. To answer your first few questions (and ask some of my own): The budget is, essentially, whatever I think gives me the best chance of getting this grant, while being reasonable. If I ask for $1 for a boat, that won't factor into whether or not we get the grant?but then we don't have a boat. On the other hand, asking for $250k would provide us with a boat, but is so over the top that I can functionally guarantee that the grant will be denied. I would think that somewhere in the 10-50k range would be reasonable? The lower the better, as it just means less money we're asking for, but safety first!

I also have a question about operating costs. You mention things like repairs, but what about day-to-day maintenance? Is one lower maintenance than the other (fiberglass vs. aluminum)? Metal just seems.... so much more hardy to me, but I guess I don't know why I think that.

You also mentioned a large inflatable (which has been suggested to me before). Two questions: One, how large are you considering to be large? And two, what about the possibility of something more like 3-4 of these inflatables? One for a pilot and gear, and then everyone else in their own (or with a buddy if need be). Stupid?

In regards to your other post, no need to apologize for doubt! We did, in fact, have 3-4 people in a smallish metal boat (12 feet or so). I don't know how big it was exactly but there were 3 bench seats and it was wide enough so that 2 of us could fit side by side on a bench. I'm going to guess that it was over capacity, especially since you're so sure it would be! But this was a very different situation, and I guess I should have clarified some things. I wasn't anticipating anyone's investigative skills

First thing I should have noted was that we weren't living one a boat in the pacific, or even in america. This was a year research trip in the galapagos (ecuador), so the seas were much calmer. And there is no real shark threat, so I only mentioned the shark cage to say something closer to, "the gear and people load will be similar, but one significant difference will be the cage and track (mostly the track)". We had no intention of bolting the track to that tiny boat! And, I didn't mean to imply that I "worked" on a boat, as in, doing manual labor or something. I just meant that i "did my job" while on a boat

We rented a larger boat with cabins and stuff that we would use to get out to an anchor point near the island, and we would stay there for 3-4-5 days at a time. We slept on the larger boat, but during the day, we would take the smaller boat out and get around the island and/or further out (so the larger boat didn't have to move, I guess). Fairly gentle water, no real drowning risk, etc. I'm sure there are a number of things that contribute to my not knowing much about boats: Our pilot didn't speak english, so I didn't get to ask a ton of questions, and also, we treated the boat more like a taxi. We'd wake up, eat, hop in the little boat and point to where we wanted to go, and we'd go there. It was a vehicle, and I know about as much about it as I do about, say, what my car is made out of.... Metal

I only mention this experience because y'all, very understandably, have no real way of knowing how much gear I'm picturing. That was my way of contextualizing?it's a small enough amount that it could fit in a smallish boat, although that would probably not be safe in the pacific (and, realistically, probably wouldn't happen with a pilot who cares if the boat is over capacity!)

I'm here to learn, because I'm guessing I'm going to have to spend more time on boats in the future. I promise there's nothing "fishy" going on (what would that even be? )... I'm just a bozo who knows what I don't know, and wants to learn.

And, as always, thank you all for the great info. Really, really appreciated!

 

[JoLin]

I also have some questions about some things said in those posts. There were some things said like, "when a craft advisory is up, a 16footer is about as small as I would go" and "i'd feel okay in the ocean in anything from a 14' aluminum on up" and "I use a 21' closed-bow runabout in 10 foot seas". Are these people just being insane, or am I missing something? Will the seas in the pacific be bigger than 10 feet?

Insane? Maybe. I'd definitely use the words 'ill advised'. Think a minute about how much work you'd actually be able to do in 6 or 8 foot seas. Not from the standpoint of the boat being in any danger, but from the danger to a crew trying to operate on a pitching, rolling deck. Everything on a boat is hard and/or sharp. Every crew member becomes a candidate for cuts, bruises, sprains, broken bones and falling overboard. The only way I'd even consider taking a boat out with a small craft advisory in effect, is if it's waning, i.e., seas have begun to moderate and will 'lay down' further during the course of the day. If it's a small craft warning, then no way, no how, would I ever leave the dock.

There's virtually no excuse anymore to be surprised by a turn of the weather- weather advisories on the VHF, weather advisories and weather radar on your smartphone... if you get 'caught' it's because you simply weren't paying attention.

My .02

 

[Old Ironmaker]

I do apologize for my pessimism, I just would have thought someone working from both a large and small boat for a year would know much more about boats then you appear to. Regardless of a language barrier.

Budget

I believe you would be safe and be able to work in a vessel of 30 feet, closer to 35 if it were I going out 3 to 5 days a week for 8 hours. You need to use muscles you never had to stay upright and balanced in a smaller boat even with a bit of a chop. The larger the more stable, and fibreglass is more stable than aluminum. Start to use the word aluminum rather than metal, you will start to sound like a mariner. After 8 hours on the water in my small 19 foot 115 Horsepower aluminum I need a day to recover from tired muscles in good seas, the joints get locked up from not moving about, in a good chop I need a few days but then again I'm 62 not 32. It's like a long airplane ride, all you did was sit but it can tire you out sitting in 1 position for long periods. Wear and tear on the body hasn't been discussed I believe. It is a factor to take into consideration. Your budget should be $30,000.00. For that money your boat will just perfect for your needs. Don't forget you will sell this when over and recoup at least 75% of the initial cost. Those with experience with selling 30 footers may be able to really quantify that number. The point of recovering money once sold should be made very clear to the investors of the project. So really on a $30,000.00 vessel it will only cost those funding the research $7500.00, you might be able to get more more money for the cost of the vessel if you present that proposal well.

I need to cut this off as I look at the clock, I will continue latter.