Cracked Block and Improper Winterization?

CaptSully

Cadet
Joined
Nov 13, 2007
Messages
12
Re: Cracked Block and Improper Winterization?

Why do you automatically feel that you're getting screwed?

I will admit that I am always skeptical with regards to getting what I paid for with mechanics. And the reason is....I never have. And I mean NEVER. I am a hands-on kind of guy...very capable/technical, but value my time. I am now at a point in my life, where my time is worth more than the price of a mechanic. So...I SHOULD be able to pay to have it done....and actually get it done. Unfortunately, I end up spending more time after the fact trying to fix what they didnt do....and get my money back.

So....do I give up on mechanics all together and do it myself....or keep trying??

*sigh*

Anyways....I appreciate everyone's advice. I will keep you posted on my progress (or lack thereof).

Sully
 

dmcb

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
Messages
93
Re: Cracked Block and Improper Winterization?

You bought a boat for a little R&R, correct.
A slight change of attitude to include some work on your boat as part of your overall boating experience.
A lot of us enjoy that almost as much as burning gas.
Doug
 

Maclin

Admiral
Joined
May 27, 2007
Messages
6,761
Re: Cracked Block and Improper Winterization?

If I was the mechanic after looking at those corroded petcocks I would have just taken the fitting off at the block, you get a lot more sediment out of it that way anyway. If you put a wrench on the fittings at the block do they move easily? If so I bet that is what he did. Time for new petcocks in any event, and he may have just taken the entire assembly off to save having to ask you to buy new petcocks.

I would switch that thing back to drain plugs if it was mine.
 

CaptSully

Cadet
Joined
Nov 13, 2007
Messages
12
Re: Cracked Block and Improper Winterization?

You bought a boat for a little R&R, correct.
A slight change of attitude to include some work on your boat as part of your overall boating experience.
A lot of us enjoy that almost as much as burning gas.
Doug

I agree. I do love buying used stuff (this is my 1st boat) and bringing them back to new quality. However...engine work is not exactly my expertise. With the proper manual, I can fix anything though. I have already put about 15 hours into cleaning the vinyl and started removing the oxidation and pinstriping. My intent is to have the boat looking like BRAND NEW come the spring. The ENGINE I had hoped was in GREAT shape...sounded good, ran great, and based on the first mechanic I took it to, he thought it was in awesome shape.

BTW....I only paid $2200 for the boat and trailer. So even if I had to drop in a new engine, I wouldnt really be behind. I had preferred to spend my time/money on the appearance.

Thanks all!
Sully
 

CaptSully

Cadet
Joined
Nov 13, 2007
Messages
12
Re: Cracked Block and Improper Winterization?

If I was the mechanic after looking at those corroded petcocks I would have just taken the fitting off at the block, you get a lot more sediment out of it that way anyway. If you put a wrench on the fittings at the block do they move easily? If so I bet that is what he did. Time for new petcocks in any event, and he may have just taken the entire assembly off to save having to ask you to buy new petcocks.

I would switch that thing back to drain plugs if it was mine.

I initially thought the same. But if you blow up my picture, you can see that they did not remove the whole petcock.

I had not thought about replacing with drain plugs. I will look into that. I guess its time for me to hit GOOGLE and find a good part store (need to get new exhaust bellows as well---see my other pics).

Thanks!
Sully
 

Lou C

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Nov 10, 2002
Messages
13,069
Re: Cracked Block and Improper Winterization?

I have the same petcocks/drains in my 88 OMC, the brass plugs usually will come out pretty easily, no need to remove the whole petcock unless the brass plug will not come out. I put OMC/Bombardier Triple Guard Grease on the threads every year when I winterize, and they come out by hand, easily even after a season in the salt water. If they are cracks, that's really a shame, the engine does not have much corrosion for its age, and the starter even looks original (spray painted the same OMC charcoal grey engine color). Now if you want a boat, but are not into lots of work, hate to say it but a close to 20 year old boat with an IO is by definition, a LOT of work unless you personally knew the owner for the whole time it was owned, and it was a freshwater boat well kept up. On mine, I did OK with the mechanical end (bought 14 years old, so far have had to replace manifolds, starter, bellows, gimble, and a couple of seals on the drive). BUT, I had a rotted deck and stringers which was a huge job, now is done but never again. If you want a low maintenance boat, with an IO esp, easiest way to go is a nice late model 3-4 year old boat, before age and lack of maintenance catches up with it. Any boat as old as yours, and mine, is a crap shoot at best, I/O or outboard....wood rot being the worst of things to fix IMHO>
 

BAYLINER185

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 30, 2007
Messages
474
Re: Cracked Block and Improper Winterization?

When you buy an old used boat you REALLY need to expect the worst especially when you dont spend a lot to begin with.

If the boat needed a lot cleaning on the out side it should tell you a lot of whats on the inside that you cant see. One time to a machinac isnt going to make it all better over night. It just aint gonna happen.

My old Webbcraft was a money pit. It was never right even after pumping in a ton of money. It ran great but it always had a problem every time I took it out. I learned not to buy boats that actually looked like they were neglected because they are in deed units that were kicked to the curb!

I have just bought a 14 year old BAYLINER 2755 cruser that looks like its cryogenically frozen!

The boat runs excelent looks geeat and the hotties at the dock even can see its been well kept. An old boat doenst have to act like an old boat. The previous owner babied this boat and gave me a crash course on it as if I knew nothing about boats. It was good to know he KNEW the boat inside and out and did all the maintnance him self and knew exactlty how to do it. That told me alot in just a little over an hour meeting with him.
 

CaptSully

Cadet
Joined
Nov 13, 2007
Messages
12
Re: Cracked Block and Improper Winterization?

I just called the mechanic about my questions below. He seemed very nice and receptive....so I tend to believe him. I hope I can.

Here's his answers:
1. Yes..Grind and JB weld.
2. "Had to loosen mounts and move up almost 1 inch to bring into alignment. Everything looked good. Just was out of alignment...most likely loose bolts/mounts that someone noticed later and simply tightened back up (leaving it misaligned)."
3. "The bellows looked great! So I didnt change them."
4. "We did not touch the petcocks because we do not drain the block. We pumped antifreeze through the engine for 30 minutes. That will get all the water out."
5. "The first thing we did was pump the oil out after we saw the cracks. We wanted to see how bad it was. The marine 25/40 oil is darker than what I am used to."
6. "Missed it." He then proceeded to give a quote on the parts so I could do it myself.

Here's my question....is running it through antifreeze for 30 minutes good enough? Is the water simply flowing right back into the antifreeze barrel and then being circulated back into the engine? The answer is Yes. Is that okay? AND....why does his Winterization Checklist say, "drain block and manifolds of water, fill cooling system with a system with antifreeze"

What do you think?

Sully

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: sully
To: mechanic
Subject: RE: Winterization
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 19:39:43 -0500

Ken,
Few questions...I would have liked to speak with you about these items in person, but you had left when I picked up the boat. See the pictures here for all these issues: http://rides.webshots.com/album/561422189SJvbVJ?vhost=rides You can click on the little magnifying glass under each picture to see a large high-res picture.

1. What is your advice about the cracked block? Tim said you found no indication of water in the oil...and I dont see water leaking outside either. So...it would appear the crack is not all the way through. Should I just grind it down a bit and JB WELD it?
2. What did you find out about the severely misaligned engine? How did the stringers look? Were the engine mounts still in good shape?
3. Were the outdrive bellows still in that good of shape, to not replace them? I had hoped you would replace them, being that it had been so long since the outdrive had been serviced. Especially being that it would not really increase my labor cost (just parts).
4. The drain petcocks are very corroded and dont look like they were used to drain the block. How was the block/manifold drained? Or did you just use a flush kit?
5. The oil level is high and is also very dark for being new oil. Is it possible that you forgot to drain/replace it?
6. The port side exhaust bellow is in very bad shape. Did you not notice? I assume I can order it and replace it myself?

Thanks!
Sully

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mechanic
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2007 14:47:34 -0500
Subject: Re: Winterization
To: sully

Sully
Our complete winterization chck list includes: add gas stabilizer to fuel tank, drain block and manifolds of water, fill cooling system with a system with antifreeze, change engine oil and filter,change fuel filter, run and fog engine, grease all external grease fittings, spray engine with rust inhibitor, lube shift, throttle and steering cables, check all accessible belts, hoses and bellows, drain and refill lower unit oil, remove and grease propeller shaft and bag outdrive.
let us know....thanks
 

CharlieB

Vice Admiral
Joined
Apr 10, 2007
Messages
5,617
Re: Cracked Block and Improper Winterization?

When I winterize a I/O, I submerge the O/D in a tank of -100 A/F and run the engine till I am POSITIVE that the stat has opened to flush the block completely, AND heated my tank to steaming @ 180.

This evaps some of the water that I gain, regular 'tests' with the hydrometer and adding some fresh A/F ensures my protection level.

Point is, if done conscientiously, plugs and petcocks do NOT always have to be removed.

Note, late model mercs w/ blue drain plugs I DO drain first so as to both reduce diluting my tank and reduce time required to ensure the block is filled/protected.
 

getinmerry

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jul 17, 2007
Messages
211
Re: Cracked Block and Improper Winterization?

With the cracks around the threads of the petcock plumbing I wouldn't remove it now that the JB has been applied. Remove only the actual petcock at the end of the plumbing. Use a vise grips to keep the pipe from turning into the block any further while changing the petcock out. Otherwise you risk opening the crack up badly.

Chuck
 
Top