Distributor help!***Mission Accomplished***

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: Distributor help!

Re: Distributor help!



1. When installing the dist did you do it under no.1"s "compression" stroke only
2. Is there any of the old ford's loom remaining...wiring harness

3. If so when setting the timing did you disconnect the spout wire..

4.Is your vacum capped off

5. If all of the above do not enter the picture.....set up to 10 btdc and throw away the timing light....rotate her by hand and set the timing by ear....she may be a bit sloppy.....no joke old freind....advance her til she spins freely then retard her till she tightens up....then advance her agian until she smoothes out....shut it down swing her back to number and check to see if she is in alignment.

Are you using something from petronix as setting up the wiring????
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My concern was that even after I reset the base timing, the motor ran crappy. But this was before I corrected the rotor height issue and may have been responsible for the dropped and intermittant firing of three of the rear cylinders. I am now setting out to re-run the engine with both issues corrected. Initially I had not verified the dropping of the cylinders so I thought something was wrong with my set-up.


:redface: Wize one just out of curosity have you ever tried taking a insulated screw driver and placing it between the coil node and the indvidual plug node's and see if spark jumps corecctly...you may have a bad cap..pourous cracked or shorting..

 

[xtraham]

Re: Distributor help!

Re: Distributor help!

the firing order on some 302/5.0 fords are different from year to year, and even the same year with a performance engine. you say that you had points, if you have a shift interrupter thats will make you drop cylinders and will not work with the electronic unit

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: Distributor help!

Re: Distributor help!

the firing order on some 302/5.0 fords are different from year to year, and even the same year with a performance engine. you say that you had points, if you have a shift interrupter thats will make you drop cylinders and will not work with the electronic unit

I doubt he has the ford's ecu in the system ...if he does that's part of the problem...Wize one that is a 98 HO 5.0 roller cam 220 hp is it not?

 

[xtraham]

Re: Distributor help!

Re: Distributor help!

I doubt he has the ford's ecu in the system ...if he does that's part of the problem...Wize one that is a 98 HO 5.0 roller cam 220 hp is it not?

I wasn't referring to an ecu, the pertronix electronic point replacement unit will not work if the boat uses a shift interrupter, I tried to do it to a I/O with a chevy, but I called pertronix first, they said no go..
I'd look at the firing order, a ford will run with the wrong firing order but you can't set the timing correctly,

 

[xtraham]

Re: Distributor help!

Re: Distributor help!

BTW. here's the firing orders

302/5.0 15426378

302/HO and 351/5.8 13726548

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: Distributor help!

Re: Distributor help!

Ok now gettn a headache here... Went down and talked to the guys...


1. check the part no ON the dist call petro and see if that is the right dist..mis marked boxes happen quite often..

2. Was a After Market cam advance kit put on that unit without you knowing...:redface:

3. Uh Ohh...there is a bit of a discussion going that a 98 5.0 explorer did not use a conventional dist...it was all electronic....were there spark plug wires on the orignal motor...all sensors and a convential dist wornt work..

4. Has that old barge....err Ford perhaps had the cam chain jump... By the way they admire your courage and imagination..lots of hard work going on there..

 

[WizeOne]

Re: Distributor help!

Re: Distributor help!

This motor is a 5.0 roller cam motor out of a 2002 Ford Explorer. It had the best breathing heads (GT40P) that Ford ever put on a 302/5.0. It has a 9.0:1 compression ratio. It also has the following firing order; 13726548, same as all 351's, which incidently was the same as the original OMC 190 hp motor and the Merc 188. The block and heads have never been tampered with. It is all original.

The original electronic distributor did not come with the motor. I striped off all of the fuel injection and intake and installed an Edelbrock 2121 Performer intake with 600 cfm Holley 4160 marine 4bbl. I used all of the other parts that came off the OMC motor including the front timing cover, oil pan, marine fuel pump, marine alternator, brackets, etc.

The timing chain is a new double roller (installed by a profesional) and I had to get a new conversion damper to be able to use all of my original pulleys. The 302 was a 28 oz externally balanced motor and the 5.0 is a 50 oz externally balanced motor. So the front damper had to be a 50 oz with the 28 oz configuration. Likewise, all 5.0's used the larger flywheel (w/50 oz balance) so I had to get a conversion flywheel, in the smaller diameter but in the 50 oz balance.

The plugs are new, the wires are new and the coil is new. The distributor is the original Centrifugal Advance Prestolite. The only change that was necessary was the installation of a steel drive gear to match the steel roller cam, otherwize the distrib fit the 5.0 as it fit the 302. Also the cam was replaced. It was the original fuel injected cam that I had reground by Delta Cams in Seattle WA. It happens to be a bit of a pre-smog, free breathing, '69 351w grind that pushes the limits but still fits within marine parameters. There is no cam advance apparatus.

I had added the Pertronix Hall Effect, magnetically triggered ignitor on the old 302 just before I changed motors. Looking back, even then I had some mystifying running issues.

I did call Pertonix this morning and they verified that their unit should fire when the rotor tip is directly in front of the cap cylinder stud, not after it has passed it by. Otherwize they had no explanation for why I have this 'phasing' issue. They stated, you mess with it, it's your baby. I did not even get into the rotor height issue with them because that could not possibly be their doing.

I am now in the process of re-installing the steel cam gear to the proper height. Once done, I will reinstall it and give it a test run AND give a report s to the success or lack thereof.

 

[MikDee]

Re: Distributor help!

Re: Distributor help!

I had a 302/188hp Mercruiser in my 18'- 74' Wellcraft Airslot. I'm familiar with the 'W" and "C" engines, & their different firing orders. I had wanted to swap a 351 in there. So, I guess you have a Pertronics ignitor with the stock centrifugal (mechanical) advance, but you changed the Dizzy gear, and the Damper, how do you know that they are right, or on right, especially with the roller cam motor?

One more thing, as a wild eyed guess to check, make sure you use resistor wires, or resistor plugs, or you'll get a misfire.

 

[WizeOne]

Re: Distributor help!

Re: Distributor help!

... So, I guess you have a Pertronics ignitor with the stock centrifugal (mechanical) advance, but you changed the Dizzy gear, and the Damper, how do you know that they are right, or on right, especially with the roller cam motor?

One more thing, as a wild eyed guess to check, make sure you use resistor wires, or resistor plugs, or you'll get a misfire.

MD, you got it correct. As far as 'they' all being correct, my running issues are in not regular in nature. This is classic evidence of an ignition pulse that sometimes ends up in the right place and sometimes it doesn't. If things like the damper, the cam or the cam gear placement were wrong, the problem would be consistant.

As per the ballast resistor or ballast wire, the Pertronix igniter and coil run best on a full 12v's.

Thanks for your thoughts on a very perplexing issue. If it was not for the access hole cut into the cap, I do not know how anyone could have diagnosed this. I do not think there are very many profesionals who would go to that extreme.

 

[MikDee]

Re: Distributor help!

Re: Distributor help!

One more thing, as a wild eyed guess to check, make sure you use resistor wires, or resistor plugs, or you'll get a misfire.

Who said anything about a ballast resistor?
I meant resistor spark plug wires (the premium suppression metallic coil core wires) are the best. Or, resistor spark plugs. Non-resistor metallic core wires, and non resistor plugs will create a blue "halo effect" of leaking spark, misfiring everywhere, most noticable all over the wires when running in the dark. It might even cook the coil.

Well either way it sounds like you did the right thing by moving the breaker plate (indexing it to match everything) as long as your centrifugal advance mechanism was totally retracted at the time. If I remember correctly the SBFord has a counterclockwise firing order, and Dizzy rotation, completely opposite of the standard clockwise rotation Dizzy of the SBChevy.

 

[WizeOne]

Re: Distributor help!

Re: Distributor help!

Who said anything about a ballast resistor?
I meant resistor spark plug wires (the premium suppression metallic coil core wires) are the best. Or, resistor spark plugs. Non-resistor metallic core wires, and non resistor plugs will create a blue "halo effect" of leaking spark, misfiring everywhere, most noticable all over the wires when running in the dark. It might even cook the coil.

Well either way it sounds like you did the right thing by moving the breaker plate (indexing it to match everything) as long as your centrifugal advance mechanism was totally retracted at the time. If I remember correctly the SBFord has a counterclockwise firing order, and Dizzy rotation, completely opposite of the standard clockwise rotation Dizzy of the SBChevy.

Yeah, MD, I mis-interperated the resistor thing. I'll check into that. And yes, the Ford dizzy runs counter clockwise.

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: Distributor help!

Re: Distributor help!

......

 

[WizeOne]

Re: Distributor help!

Re: Distributor help!

......

Hmmm? Extremely articulate!

 

[xtraham]

Re: Distributor help!

Re: Distributor help!

I think I'd get an old point type distributor (automotive) and drop it in and try it, I just cannot picture how the hall effects and rotor can be out of phase, the cam nor the cam gear would cause that, the only thing that could cause this is the exciter that passes through the hall effects sensor. post some pics with the cap off

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: Distributor help!

Re: Distributor help!

Hmmm? Extremely articulate!

2002 had a 4.6 litre not a 5.0

im doing some research and trying not to watch the elections...it a trying day..:redface:

2001 you mean...the last year for the 5.0?

 

[WizeOne]

Re: Distributor help!

Re: Distributor help!

2002 had a 4.6 litre not a 5.0

im doing some research and trying not to watch the elections...it a trying day..:redface:

2001 you mean...the last year for the 5.0?

I hope you get thru the evening. We are just now turning on the news.

But I beg to differ TG. The Ford Explorer was the last Ford vehicle to have the pushrod 302. All other models had already converted to the OHC Modular motor. I got a 200Duece 5.0!

 

[WizeOne]

Re: Distributor help!

Re: Distributor help!

I think I'd get an old point type distributor (automotive) and drop it in and try it, I just cannot picture how the hall effects and rotor can be out of phase, the cam nor the cam gear would cause that, the only thing that could cause this is the exciter that passes through the hall effects sensor. post some pics with the cap off

I'll do that. It will probably take a day or so to post them.

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: Distributor help!

Re: Distributor help!

I hope you get thru the evening. We are just now turning on the news.

But I beg to differ TG. The Ford Explorer was the last Ford vehicle to have the pushrod 302. All other models had already converted to the OHC Modular motor. I got a 200Duece 5.0!

No argument on the 5.0 just the year...You see most 98 and above 5.0 HO had NO DIST...trying to keep it simple.

Ok one thought.....raise your no.1 cyl to tdc mechanically.....open the dist and "see" if the rotor is now directly on the no.1 node...hopefully they will align....now look at your harmonic balancer are you at tdc...if not things are good..just advance accordingly.. and if that doesnt work..

Buckaroo Banzai :No matter where you go, there you are...

 

[dolluper]

Re: Distributor help!

Re: Distributor help!

Pertronix are real fussy when it comes to coil useage....wrong coil you have all sorts of troubles just the nature of the beast

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: Distributor help!

Re: Distributor help!

Pertronix are real fussy when it comes to coil useage....wrong coil you have all sorts of troubles just the nature of the beast

I believe that could be the case, old wize one is very methodical...But if i am reading this right there's a mechanical goof somewhere..aka the rotor is passing the contact node then firing..Id almost bet that if he takes that motor to tdc by measuring piston height... the rotor will not be in alingment with the no. 1 node.