Does this seem odd--mechanic changed estimate & diagnosis mid-repair? Please help us!

[kin402]

Does this seem odd--mechanic changed estimate & diagnosis mid-repair? Please help us!

Thank you very much for reading this post. Please share your expertise
as a boat owner. We bought our first boat and we're really struggling (please
see previous post).

We took the boat into one mechanic who showed us a hole (stuck his hand into it in fact) in the bellows on the back end of the boat. I'm learning that these are the exhaust bellows? Is that right? In any event, he said it absolutely had
to be addressed before the boat could be water ready. He also said he'd have to order a kit and since he was in a rural area, it could take at least a week to get the kit and another to get to our boat. That almost forces us out of this season altogether. Since it was breaking our hearts to think we bought it just in time to winterize it, we went to another mechanic.

The second wrote up an estimate for the bellows and a water pump and said he'd get on it immediately -- only it turned out he didn't have the bellows kit. It was supposed to come in today, but it didn't -- we learned as we checked in with him.

But he now says -- good thing no kit, because the boat doesn't need it. Huh? He offered nothing really in the way of an explanation for the change and only said that our issue is a carborator. Mechanic 2 maintains that the boat must not have been run for some time and the gas "varnished" the carborator, which now will have to be rebuilt and he will have to order parts for this as well.

I don't understand. Does it confuse any of you that a hole in a bellows could now be unnecessary to fix and have hidden an underlying carborator issue? The first mechanic seemed adamant that it couldn't go in the water b/c of the bellows hole -- and the initial estimate from mechanic 2 included bellows replacement. But now it's a nonissue?

Is all of this somehow connected to the water pump? I really like this 2nd mechanic but what he's saying doesn't seem to make sense to me. Why the change? I can understand that maybe the carborator always needed fixed and the 1st guy just missed it (perhaps b/c he was scared of overheating due to the water pump)... but the bellows thing is a mystery.

Also, could this carborator problem have harmed the engine as a whole? It doesn't surprise me that the boat may have sat for a year (maybe even two). I'm also concerned about a possible crack in the engine block (please see earlier post), but the oil does come out clean. Do you think we're in the clear on that issue?

I know boating is an expensive hobby, particularly with such an old boat -- but we are now hemorraging $$$ and I'm beginning to get really scared that we are throwing good money after bad.

What should we do?

God bless you for taking the time to read and respond!

 

[QC]

Re: Does this seem odd--mechanic changed estimate & diagnosis mid-repair? Please help

Re: Does this seem odd--mechanic changed estimate & diagnosis mid-repair? Please help

OK . . . first thing is welcome aboard!!

Second thing, we can help for sure.

Third thing, I moved this to the I/O repqair section. We don't do engine drive stuff over in the boat section

Fourth . . . Does seem odd. An exhasut bellows, in relative importance, is almost not even needed. You could run without it. But I suspect they were telling you there was a hole in the U-joint bellows, which can sink a boat and almost always leads to more damage including the U-joints themselves and the gimbal bearing.

Very strange to see a hole there and then say it wasn't necessary. Must confirm!!

A gummed up carb (varnish) is totally believable and probably shouldn't have an impact on the rest of the engine with the exception that the bad fuel is probably still in there . . . The biggest concern is the switch of the stories as they don't relate at all. That tells me theire is some missing info. Share anything more you can and ask some more questions.

 

[Fireman431]

Re: Does this seem odd--mechanic changed estimate & diagnosis mid-repair? Please help

Re: Does this seem odd--mechanic changed estimate & diagnosis mid-repair? Please help

If the bellows does indeed have a hole in it, it needs to be replaced. Put the boat in the water and you'll see why. All of the water that's supposed to be on the outside of the boat will be on it's way inside. Why mechanic 2 says it's a non-issue, unless it is the bellows that protects the driveshaft in some applications. Ask mechanic 2 why it's not an issue. Perhaps he thinks he fixed it some other way or he had one on site and was able to complete the repair. Let him explain it.

As far as the carburetor, gasoline may have well turned to a "varnish" state while sitting for a year. It's a common expression used when gasoline is allowed to sit in a carburetor and eventually evaporate. It leaves a hard film over the small holes and jets where gas is eventually atomized through. This can usually be cleaned out through a soaking and rebuild by a competent mechanic, but the only way to tell is to pull the carb apart in the first place and see the blockages. The carb problem would harm the engine as a whole unless you really ran the snot out of it with it being extremely lean. Generally, the engine would just run really crappy, if it ran at all.

Which water pump are you speaking about? the engine mounted water pump or the lower unit water impeller? The latter should be changed out if the boat has been sitting 1-2 years. The engine water pump only needs to be changed if it's leaking or if the pump/bearings are bad.

Talk to your mechanic and get the lowdown on everything. If he tells you something that you don't understand, tell him that, too. If he refuses to explain it further, take your toys and leave. There are too many good mechanics out there that will help you out and you shouldn't have to be taken for a ride..

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Does this seem odd--mechanic changed estimate & diagnosis mid-repair? Please help

Re: Does this seem odd--mechanic changed estimate & diagnosis mid-repair? Please help

If the bellows does indeed have a hole in it, it needs to be replaced...

ONLY if it's the drive shaft bellows as pointed out by QC above. Exhaust bellows can have holes in them, and it's not a big deal, really.

Can't answer the rest of your questions, except to say that water pump and varnished carburetor are not related and manifest themselves as TOTALLY different problems.

 

[kin402]

Re: Does this seem odd--mechanic changed estimate & diagnosis mid-repair? Please help

Re: Does this seem odd--mechanic changed estimate & diagnosis mid-repair? Please help

Today the mechanic spoke with my husband (it is hard to reach him during working hours) -- but I still don't feel like all of the missing pieces are coming together for me. Here's what he shared:

1) Mechanic 2 says that he doesn't see a hole in the u-joint bellows (are these hard to detect?). The first mechanic showed us by putting his hand in the hole from the outside/back of the boat near the engine. Does that mean that the bellows he was referring to were likely the exhaust bellows?


2) He also says that the carburater kit will address the varnish issue and that he will put "stabil"?? in the remaining gas to make it fresh? Does this seem right?

3) The water pump he changed out was the lower unit -- the engine mounted water pump has nothing wrong with it according to mechanic 2.

4) He also says he changed out the caps on the gearcase when changing out the water pump and he adds that the gaskets are good. Can we assume then that the concern of a possible crack in the gearcase seal noted by mechanic 1 is a nonissue?

5) Further, he sees no evidence of a cracked block. We are certainly hoping that this is the case.

The long and the short is we find ourselves reeling a bit from two diagnostic assessments that seem to vary and no explanation really for why mechanic 2 (whom we do like) wanted to first replace the bellows (ordering the kit even) and now finds it unnecessary.

Does any of this sound alarming to you? Would you question the competence of either mechanic? Are there questions that you think we should be pressing mechanic 2 on?

Again, I can only say thank you most sincerely for all your help. This forum has been our saving grace. Thus far, it's been far from "smooth sailing" in our first boat ownership experience. Thanks for helping us "navigate through" all the confusion. & sorry for the pathetic and obvious puns...

Bless you,
kin402

 

[a70eliminator]

Re: Does this seem odd--mechanic changed estimate & diagnosis mid-repair? Please help

Re: Does this seem odd--mechanic changed estimate & diagnosis mid-repair? Please help

The mechanic that told you sta-bil to freshen up the in tank fuel is incompetent, the old fuel needs to be pumped out. My sympothy goes out to you and your hubby, there are some honest mechanics are out there, keep looking, ask around the local docks too. Have you guys tried backing the boat down into the water just deep enough that the outdrive is submerged, if no water comes the bellows are good, try and start the engine ?

 

[insanity]

Re: Does this seem odd--mechanic changed estimate & diagnosis mid-repair? Please help

Re: Does this seem odd--mechanic changed estimate & diagnosis mid-repair? Please help

The exhaust bellows I have on my boat is like the one in the lower right of this pic.

http://www.iboats.com/Mallory-Seal-...9262132--**********.695367005--view_id.364101

 

[a70eliminator]

Re: Does this seem odd--mechanic changed estimate & diagnosis mid-repair? Please help

Re: Does this seem odd--mechanic changed estimate & diagnosis mid-repair? Please help

Where are you from? maybe somebody local can visit you, I would be happy to look over your rig if you were in my area.

 

[kin402]

Re: Does this seem odd--mechanic changed estimate & diagnosis mid-repair? Please help

Re: Does this seem odd--mechanic changed estimate & diagnosis mid-repair? Please help

We would love for anyone to take a look at her. We are in Omaha, Nebraska. (not exactly a hotbed of nautical activity!)

Anyone either know of a trusted, reliable (& affordable) mechanic in my area or happen to live in the vicinity themselves?

We'd love to grill you some of the famous Omaha Steaks!

 

[Ruddell]

Re: Does this seem odd--mechanic changed estimate & diagnosis mid-repair? Please help

Re: Does this seem odd--mechanic changed estimate & diagnosis mid-repair? Please help

One thing that you should take from this is the importance of scheduling a 100 hour(or yearly seasonal) service at the beginning of the season. Keeping up on the maintenance of an inboard isn't cheap, but the pricetag from letting it go is far worse.

Most manufacturers and halfway decent dealerships consider the bellows to be part of the 100 hour service, along with fluids, filters, grease points lubricated, and some other minor details.

I'm not saying you should throw your money away, but if you keep up with it you protect your investment in the long run.

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Does this seem odd--mechanic changed estimate & diagnosis mid-repair? Please help

Re: Does this seem odd--mechanic changed estimate & diagnosis mid-repair? Please help

The mechanic that told you sta-bil to freshen up the in tank fuel is incompetent, the old fuel needs to be pumped out.

That's a bit harsh... many otherwise good mechanics are a bit fuzzy on stuff like this. The second guy you took the boat to seems to know what he's doing in general.

I'd go see the boat with him there and show him where the first mechanic showed you the hole... if it's in the exhaust bellows, it doesn't matter much, but if it's in the Ujoint bellows it'll need fixing.

As far as the gas, if the boat starts on it after the carb is rebuilt, I'd just go ahead and use it up quickly. It's not as good as "fresh" gas, and putting sta-bil in it won't make it so, but if you can start on it you can run on it. I routinely pull old gas out of boats for use in my lawnmower and snowblower, you could do that too.

You might also consider putting some fresh high octane gas in to mix with the old stuff.. the chemicals that are "missing" from the old gas will be present in good amounts in eg 91 octane, so mixing it up will help.

Make sure whatever you do that you have a good fuel filter installed, and a water separator (sometimes these are combined).

If you can find someone from the board here to go over the boat with you, great. I'd recommend even more that you find someone local who boats who could help you out... the first trip out with an old boat can be frustrating.

Do maintenance on the boat before you take it out.. plugs, oil, spark test, check the drive lube, run the boat on muffs before you put it in the water, and don't go far from shore until you've run the boat an hour.

If you only have a few weeks left to boat, don't count on using the boat for all of them. Figure a couple trips to get used to the boat and to make sure it doesn't have any immediate problems, then the last couple trips can be for fun.

Erik

 

[MBAKER]

Re: Does this seem odd--mechanic changed estimate & diagnosis mid-repair? Please help

Re: Does this seem odd--mechanic changed estimate & diagnosis mid-repair? Please help

The exhaust bellows I have on my boat is like the one in the lower right of this pic.

http://www.iboats.com/Mallory-Seal-...9262132--**********.695367005--view_id.364101

That is an exhaust tube not a bellows, and is normally open on one end especially with the drive up. With the drive down it slips into the open end and semi-seals the exhaust to the drive. If that?s what the first mech was sticking his hand in then no you wouldn?t need to replace it

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Does this seem odd--mechanic changed estimate & diagnosis mid-repair? Please help

Re: Does this seem odd--mechanic changed estimate & diagnosis mid-repair? Please help

DO NOT run bad fuel
incomplete combustion can and will stick valve stems,rings and piston skirts.
no way to make old gas good again. simply wont happen.
if you wish I can try to post pics of what lean burn does to piston crowns.

 

[airdvr1227]

Re: Does this seem odd--mechanic changed estimate & diagnosis mid-repair? Please help

Re: Does this seem odd--mechanic changed estimate & diagnosis mid-repair? Please help

I think you need to get an OE manual and start understanding these systems and how they work so you can be knowledgable about what is being said to you. I'm not knocking your lack of knowledge I'm just sayin'

 

[searay3]

Re: Does this seem odd--mechanic changed estimate & diagnosis mid-repair? Please help

Re: Does this seem odd--mechanic changed estimate & diagnosis mid-repair? Please help

I live in 'South O'....check your pm's

 

[insanity]

Re: Does this seem odd--mechanic changed estimate & diagnosis mid-repair? Please help

Re: Does this seem odd--mechanic changed estimate & diagnosis mid-repair? Please help

That is an exhaust tube not a bellows, and is normally open on one end especially with the drive up. With the drive down it slips into the open end and semi-seals the exhaust to the drive. If that?s what the first mech was sticking his hand in then no you wouldn?t need to replace it

Thank you for explaning what I missed.