Drive will not go up or down - Trim issues Aq271c/dp 290

[Brian WV]

I'll try the short version as best as possible...

Couple of weeks ago i launched the boat. put the drive down (worked fine) then noticed when i released the switch the motor was still running as if it was still putting the drive down even though it was completely down. I put the boat in reverse and it stopped. Worked fine the rest of the night

Few days later i launch and the drive will not go down at all. All i hear is a click. Once i left the ramp and kept trying the switch over and over it finally went down, then functioned normally the rest of the night.

Now its parked in my driveway and the drive will not go down. I certainly dont want to risk launching again and hoping it eventually goes down.

When i move the switch forward (in order to put the drive down) i hear a click. I chased the sound down to the one relay. I replaced said relay and still only getting a click.

I guess im a little lost here.

Can it be the switch? i didnt think so since it was engaging the relay. I dug around around the pump and engine compartment to find any type of fuse with no luck. Would the fuse be in the engine area or near my controls/instrument area?

When the pump ran it seemed to run strong.. Also i read alot about the trim sending unit, does that unit serve a purpose in the actual funtioning of the outdrive going up or down or is it just for my gauge to tell me the angle of my outdrive?

Thank you in advance for the help

ps. its a sunrunner 235 weekender if that helps any

 

[Brian WV]

Re: Drive will not go up or down - Trim issues Aq271c/dp 290

Anyone? Please?

 

[DCinVA]

Re: Drive will not go up or down - Trim issues Aq271c/dp 290

I may be able to provide a little help.

The correct answer is to look in the service manual, and follow the appropriate testing procedure.
The manuals can be found here.
Boatinfo - The library, containing manuals, brochures and other technical documents from the last hundred years!

From what you describe it sounds like the switch and the relay(s) work fine.
I believe there are two relays, on for up and one for down.
The relays close the circuit and send power to the pump.
There should be two heavy gauge positive leads going from the relays to the pump, one for up and one for down.
There should also be two additional heavy leads going to the relays that provide power.

Having said all that, check the condition of the wires and the connectors to/from the relay. Clean up any corrosion. Next get a test light, and check that when you push the up and down switch that the heavy leads to the pump receive power. If no power to those heavy leads leading to the pump, check to assure the other heavy leads leading to the relay have power. I am sure there is a fuse somewhere, so follow the wires to find the fuses. So...if the up/down circuits to the pump are receiving power (12 volts), you probably have an issue with the pump. If there is no power to the pump, you probably have an issue somewhere in the wiring.

These circuits are subject to corrosion, so look carefully at all the wires and all the connections.

Hope this was helpful.

 

[Brian WV]

Re: Drive will not go up or down - Trim issues Aq271c/dp 290

Thanks for the response..

I have referenced a few manuals as well as my online seloc subscription and they all seem to not really offer troubleshooting for the issue.

It literally took me a week to find the 55 amp fuse running from the pump. Looked intially like some type of mounting bracket to the starter. Had no clue it was the actual fuse. Anyhow ordered one and installed it this morning...no luck.

I have cleaned all of the bolts and exposed fittings.. Still just a click.

Does the trim sending unit have anything to do with the outdrive physically up and down? I think now im down to the pump right?

I guess im a little confused with regards to testing the pump. My apologies for being an electrical dummy. Do i take a an extra battery and try to jump the motor like i would test a starter motor?

Thanks in advance for all the help

 

[DCinVA]

Re: Drive will not go up or down - Trim issues Aq271c/dp 290

Diagnosing electrical issues can be confusing, but if you find and follow the wiring schematic from the appropriate service manual, and have a little patience you can figure it out.

There should be two relays that control down circuit, one near the dash, and one near the pump. You need to assure both are working correctly.
Are both of them clicking when you push the down button?

I would start by checking the circuits from the switch to the pump. This will test the switch, and the relays behind the dash.

In the engine compartment, pull the relays located near the pump. Using your test light, check that you have 12 volts at terminal 87 on both relays. You might need to have the ignition turned on. Terminal 87 is the circuit that you replaced the fuse on. If there is no power to terminal 87 you have a open circuit somewhere.

Next attach your test light to terminal 86 of both relays (one at a time), Push the up button or down button. If the light goes on that circuit is good. If not you have an open circuit.

Next check that you have good grounds at terminal 85 and 87a.

Let us know what you find.

 

[Brian WV]

Re: Drive will not go up or down - Trim issues Aq271c/dp 290

Yesterday i went out with my test set and tried your suggestions.

All relays are clicking (2 near the pump and the relay under the dash)

I turned the ignition on and tried circuit 87 and got no light.

On terminal 86 i got power when each switch was pushed.

When you mentioned 12 volts to terminal 87 do i need a test set that will give me voltage readings? As of now i only have the test set that lights up if i have power at the source..

Thanks for all the help so far

Brian

 

[DCinVA]

Re: Drive will not go up or down - Trim issues Aq271c/dp 290

You are making good progress.
You have determined that the switch is working, and the switch is sending power to the relays.
You replaced the relays, so we know they are good.
You have no power to terminal 87 which is the high current power supplied to the pump. This is clearly an issue.
Follow the wires from terminal 87, back to the fuse and using your test light see if you have power at the fuse. You said you replaced the fuse so that should be good, but see if you have power there. If you have power there you have an open circuit between the fuse and terminal 87. If no power at the fuse, keep tracing the wire back and testing until you find the open circuit. You will probably find some sort of electrical plug in connector upstream of the fuse, so look closely at that connector as these type of electrical connections are prone to corrosion and hence failure. As a side note, it is always a good idea to spray a little wd40 on all these electrical connections on a regular basis. This helps to keep the corrosion in check.

You should probably also test the pump to assure there is no issue there. Make up a test lead using heavy wire and attach a male spade connector on one end and an alligator clip on the other. The lead needs to long enough to go from the positive lead on the battery to the relays near the pump. Attach the alligator clip to the plus side of the battery. Be careful not to touch the ends of this test lead to any ground. Remove the relays near the pump, and touch the male spade connector to terminal 30 on each of the relays. This will provide power directly to the up/down circuits of the pump. If the pump works, you know you only have an issue with getting power to terminal 87.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes.

Here is a link to a wiring diagram that should be close to what you have.

http://boatinfo.no/lib/volvo/manuals/dp-d_lk_drive.html#/60

 

[Brian WV]

Re: Drive will not go up or down - Trim issues Aq271c/dp 290

so this morning i had time to do the above mentioned test of the pump. Made up the test lead of 10 gauge wire, alligator clip and spade. went to the boat and connected it into terminal 30.. the moment i connected it i heard a slight noise from the pump (so quiet that i wouldnt hear it outside the engine compartment). That noise lasted maybe 2-3 seconds then nothing. I went to the other terminal and connected it as said and got nothing...

I have yet to do any backtracking or testing of the fuse of the 87 terminal yet.

Im assuming this means new motor for the pump? if so i tried to reference the volvo part number on the motor. It states "volvo penta 3860880" . i tried to reference said part number and am having no luck...was this p/n for the motor or the entire pump?

Again thank you for the help up to this point

 

[DCinVA]

Re: Drive will not go up or down - Trim issues Aq271c/dp 290

Nice work!

I sounds like you need a new pump, and you need to determine where the fault is in the wire feeding power to terminal 87. This fault may be the cause of the pump failure.

I cant help with parts. For my boat I went to the Volvo Penta website and purchased the parts catalog, I think it was about $30. My marina is also an ex Albemarle dealer and they know both the boats and the parts.

Again...good job, I am glad you figured it out.

Dave

 

[Scott Danforth]

Re: Drive will not go up or down - Trim issues Aq271c/dp 290

The oildyne pumps can be rebuilt fairly cheaply at your local hydraulic shop.

 

[Brian WV]

Re: Drive will not go up or down - Trim issues Aq271c/dp 290

Dave, thanks again for all of the help. I would have never been able to properly troubleshoot without your help.

I pulled the pump off this morning and i'm taking it to a shop in the pittsburgh area that rebuilds them. I opted for the rebuild due to me having a really hard time finding a replacement trim motor.

I took the top of the trim motor off an quickly noticed that there was a fair amount of brown stained water in the motor housing itself. (im guessing thats not good )

Anyhow pump goes for a rebuild tomorrow. I need to still check for the wiring issue with regards to the no power at terminal 87..

 

[DCinVA]

Re: Drive will not go up or down - Trim issues Aq271c/dp 290

Happy to help.

Let us know how it turns out.

Dave

 

[Brian WV]

Re: Drive will not go up or down - Trim issues Aq271c/dp 290

Well i took the pump to get rebuilt. So much water in it that they just ordered a replacement motor.

Picked up the pump yesterday and was excited to install it this morning before work. Installed the pump, connected everything, filled with fluid and hit the power to try it out. click click...

I tested the pump just in case and it works. I guess im chasing this terminal 87 power issue? I will try to get my test set and start poking around near the fuse to see if i have power. Any other place to look?

So disappointed..:facepalm:

 

[DCinVA]

Re: Drive will not go up or down - Trim issues Aq271c/dp 290

Yup, you fixed one of your two issues, you still need to have power to terminal 87.

New motor still will not work without power. Check to see that you have power at the fuse, and work your way to the front of the boat.

Keep it up, you are almost there.

 

[Pesimist]

Re: Drive will not go up or down - Trim issues Aq271c/dp 290

Don't want to confuse you but, when you've tracked down your electrical problem at terminal 87, I suggest you remount your fuse block - possibly to the transom. I was blowing those regularly when it was attached to the starter, haven't blown one since relocating it to the transom (22 years ago).