Electrical Problem?

[jimmy1587]

I have a 88 Johnson 200. Started having problems with it shutting down. Thought it was carb problem, had them cleaned. Still a problem, thought maybe a brooke reed, found nothing. Moter in neutral runs great, takes throttle, but when I engage in gear and load it up its like you turn the key off.

 

[R.Johnson]

Re: Electrical Problem?

Have you done a compression, and spark test?

 

[jimmy1587]

Re: Electrical Problem?

compression was good. Not sure about spark.???

 

[jimmy1587]

Re: Electrical Problem?

Come on guys, help me out. Doesn,t make any sense. You can red line the moter in neutral but when it loads up on take off sometimes it dies and is very hard to start. I can let it set for 30 min or so and we go through the process again.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: Electrical Problem?

Jimmy... We'll help you out but we need answers to the questions. A reply such as "compression is good, not sure about spark" tells us nothing.<br /><br />Compression should be approximately 100+ psi and even on all cylinders. What do you have?<br /><br />With the spark plugs removed, rig up a spark tester of some kind whereas you can set a 7/16" gap. The spark should jump that gap on all cylinders (All Cylinders!) with a strong blue lightning like flame..... a real SNAP! Does it?<br /><br />Let us know what you find.

 

[John McFarlane]

Re: Electrical Problem?

Some people are so rude and presumptuous.

 

[Richard Petersen]

Re: Electrical Problem?

Is it stopping as soon as you shift to foward? Does it do the instant stop in reverse also?--------------------- Ignition is fine if you can red line it. Back to carbs giving the right amount of fuel past 1/8 to 1/4 of the throttle plate opening. I go for blocked air passages, loose jets, jet gasket seal bad. How many turns out is your idle screws. To many or too few turns just adds proof of a carb problem. Engine always ran great before? Or is this a problem getting worse all the time?

 

[jimmy1587]

Re: Electrical Problem?

Okay. I've owned the boat about 4 years. It has ran like a top until now. Before I purchased the boat ,the previous owner was a speed freak apparantly , ran it to rich and blew the engine. When I purchased the boat it was still under double oil. I checked the compression and all the cylinders are all within 1 to 2 psi difference. It is a cross flow engine so I dont believe from what I been told, that it will have a 100 t psi. I haven't tried it in reverse. Whats got me baffled is why is it not a problem when it is in neutral. I,ve had the carbs apart and cleaned them and found no jets that could be set on this particular model. There's a tube that comes from the float bowl to the center of the trottle body. The only other thing is on the side of the trottle body are (2)orfices, high and low are what the manuel called them. I completley striped them down and made sure they were not pluged. I have a separate electric fuel pump on my boat. Its been there since i've owned it. Installed a new one last july. A OMC mechanic told me you couldn,t run a electric pump on this particular model. But another mechanic told me that it was possible if I kept the fuel psi below 5 1/2 psi with it is.

 

[R.Johnson]

Re: Electrical Problem?

Most any 2 cycle engine will run to red-line in neutral. That is no true test, as it needs to draw in very little fuel to do this. Try running the engine on a 6 gal. tank. I'm betting you have a fuel restriction somewhere. Take the hose off that electric fuel pump where it feeds into the carb. Hold the hose into a container, and have someone turn the key on, this will show how much fuel it's putting out. If the boat has a built in tank, you could well have an anti-siphon valve going bad.

 

[jimmy1587]

Re: Electrical Problem?

Joe with OMC: to answer your question first. Pulled another compression today every cylinder the same. Did the spark test you mentioned without the moter running, seemed to hit and miss on some of the coils. Took the top cover off of the power pack, didn't find anything unsual until I was putting the cover back on. A black ground wire that comes from under the cover was attached to a grounding bolt in the top of power head. Another ground wire that run ton the shift linkage , a small device asuming something to do with neutral starting? was also attached to same bolt. Did the spark test again without running engine still hit and miss on some of the coils. Cranked the motor and pulled plug wire each cylinder got a stong blue spark. I don't believe it is starving for fuel, plugs are new and the no 1 plug looked like it was trying to file. Joe the model no is j200stlccm and the serial no is G7755318.

 

[jimmy1587]

Re: Electrical Problem?

I failed to mention that those two grounds were attached to a bolt that was stripped. Reatached the wires to a new bolt. Maybe i was losing momentary ground on power pack.

 

[jimmy1587]

Re: Electrical Problem?

Several months back when this problem started I had used a different oil. Started acting up so I changed the plugs because they looked like they had filed out. Before I took it out again I discharged the fuel from my boat to my truck. There was a steady stream, 3/8, coming from the fuel line. The way the motor just shuts off, with no hesitation, I personally believe its not a fuel problem.

 

[jimmy1587]

Re: Electrical Problem?

Where you at Joe with Omc . I give you some more to work with. Your supposed to know this motor.

 

[DHPMARINE]

Re: Electrical Problem?

jimmy1587,<br /><br />I'm afraid you lost me on the post stating spark was hit and miss on some of the coils,then strong blue spark on all coils.What you need is strong blue spark (7/16) each at cranking speed all six cylinders.Without this,you have an ignition problem.How are you doing this test?<br /><br />DHP

 

[jimmy1587]

Re: Electrical Problem?

I wasn't sure how to go about a spark test. I pulled my plugs while leaving them attached to coil wire and then held the plug to the block to ground it while some one turned the key. One time I would get that blue spark and the next time I tried it I wouldn't get nothing. So I dicided to really get brave I hooked the hose to it and fired it up and it ran fine as usual when idling. I then pulled each wire, one at a time , and placed at the end of the plug but allowing enough to see if spark was there. Each plug had a strong blue flame that traveled the lenght of the boot, 1/2 inch or so. I wanted to take to the lake today to see if that loose ground was causing the problem but its rainning.

 

[fireman57]

Re: Electrical Problem?

Your coils could be breaking down under a load. They will work fine at idle. Try the hair dryer test. Put the muffs on and let it idle until warm. Put a hair dryer blowing on the coils until they are hot hot hot. If it stutters or misses then I might be tempted to change that coil. The reason I say I might be tempted is that there may be a broken/loose/frayed wire that makes a connection to something it shouldn't before it gets there. Go easy on Mr. Reeves, he does know his stuff.

 

[jimmy1587]

Re: Electrical Problem?

Sorry Joe I wasn't trying to sound sarcastic. I have all the convidence in the the world in ya.

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: Electrical Problem?

Jim.... Not intending to be sarcastic on this end either.<br /><br />From my previous post: "Compression should be approximately 100+ psi and even on all cylinders. What do you have?<br /><br />With the spark plugs removed, rig up a spark tester of some kind whereas you can set a 7/16" gap. The spark should jump that gap on all cylinders (All Cylinders!) with a strong blue lightning like flame..... a real SNAP! Does it?"<br /><br />Your reply was: "Pulled another compression today every cylinder the same. Did the spark test you mentioned without the moter running, seemed to hit and miss on some of the coils."<br /><br />That gives me nothing to work with. What is the actual compression of the cylinders?<br /><br />You can make a spark tester as follows:<br /><br />Spark Tester - Home Made<br />(J. Reeves)<br /> <br />A spark tester can be made with a piece of 1x4 or 1x6, drive a couple nails through it, then bend the pointed ends at a right angle. You can then adjust the gap by simply twisting the nail(s). Solder a spark plug wire to one which you can connect to the spark plug boots, and a ground wire of some kind to the other to connect to the powerhead somewhere.<br /><br />Using the above, one could easily build a spark tester whereas they could connect 2, 4, 6, or 8 cylinders all at one time. The ground nail being straight up, the others being bent, aimed at the ground nail. A typical 4 cylinder tester follows:<br /><br /><br />..........X1..........X2<br /><br />.................X..(grd)<br /><br />..........X3..........X4<br /><br />Now, with the spark plugs "removed" the engine must crank over at least 300 rpms in order to engage the ignition. If it's cranking slow, the ignition will be erratic or non-existent.<br /><br />Do you have proper cranking speed? If not, find out why and correct that problem first.<br /><br />Again, from my previous post "The spark should jump that gap on all cylinders (All Cylinders!) with a strong blue lightning like flame..... a real SNAP! Does it?"<br /><br />Describe what you're seeing in as good a detail as you can..... strong wide blue spark, weak thin blue, weak orange yellowish spark etc.... what?<br /><br />Bear in mind that explanations using generalities cannot define what you're experiencing unless we were standing alongside you, and if you don't want to follow the instructions we give, then we are of no help to you. Let us know what you find.

 

[jimmy1587]

Re: Electrical Problem?

Thanks Joe. It'll take a day or so to complete test. I wasn't sure about how to go about a proper spark test, but clear now. About the compession the cylinders were all 62 on my gauge. I realize thats low, but would a weak battery and the fact its a automotive tester effect it?

 

[Joe Reeves]

Re: Electrical Problem?

Yes, a weak battery would result in low compression and erratic or non-existent ignition.<br /><br />The compression of 62 psi is way too low. This leads me to believe that the engine is not cranking at the proper rpms.<br /><br />The engine must absolutely crank over with at least 300 rpms in order to have the stator (under the flywheel) to produce the needed AC voltage to the powerpack. Any cranking rpm under that 300 rpm figure results in erratic of no ignition even if everything else is perfect.<br /><br />Right after cranking, check all of the cables by hand to see if any are overly warm or hot. If overly warm or hot, that indicates a loose connection, tight but dirty connection, a internally corroded cable, something of that nature. All cables need to be clean and tight, and tight by a wrench or pliers, not fingers pertaining to wing nuts.<br /><br />If you haven't already, spray a slight bit of fuel/oil mixture through the spark plug holes to lubricate the cylinder walls..... or fogging oil, anything to have the cylinder walls lubricated.<br /><br />The minium compression on that model should be no lower than 90 psi.