Engine Temp.

[reeldutch]

Re: Engine Temp.

hey i live on long island also,<br /><br />is the repair shop in Southold???<br />let me know il go with you.<br /><br />there is a marine mechanic class at western suffolk boces.<br />the class takes 2 years and you will have to go 2 evenings a week.<br />its about 5 grand including tools and books.<br />at the end of the class tou will have to do internship for 80 hrs.<br />im going to do this class.<br />are you interested???<br /><br />it sounds like a lot of fun<br />heres the link<br /> http://www.wilsontech.org/marine.cfm <br /><br />good luck reeldutch

 

[Cricket Too]

Re: Engine Temp.

Thanks for the link reeldutch, sounds like an interesting class, but it's a pretty tough business to get into on LI. There is a ton of competition and it's pretty seasonal. Worked in boat yards when I was a kid for years, learned a lot, but always got cut loose in the end of the fall, when it slowed down, had to work basically 7 days a week during the on months. Not saying not to do it, but check out the business first to see if you really want to get into it.

 

[Cricket Too]

Re: Engine Temp.

Bump. Just need to know where I stand. Thanks.

 

[DHPMARINE]

Re: Engine Temp.

Cricket Too,<br /><br />Thermostats can stick open and can stick closed.They can also open too early or too late.<br />It's possible your motor could be running at the correct temp with wide open thermostats,and corroded passages slowing down the water flow.To the best of my knowledge there are no water deflectors in the water passages.<br /><br />Many use the hand/seconds method and I'm glad it works for them.Many times (in the fall usually) I've put my hand on a cylinder head and went running for a wax stick,only to find it was fine.Remember temperature is relative.<br /><br />I don't think you stand too well as to what temp your motor should run at,to negotiate a 'refund'<br />but what counts is how well the motor runs.<br /><br />As for wanting the thermostats changed,and if they were,it should be visible.And not someone saying they are working.Look for gasket cement,wrench marks on bolts,etc.<br /><br />Also,do you really have a "bubble back" motor ?<br /><br />doesn't come up that way in my parts book.Just looks flat.Just curious.<br /><br />DHP

 

[Cricket Too]

Re: Engine Temp.

Hey DHP, thanks for the response. Yeah it's definitely a bubbleback, I've had a couple of them, as well as the regular flat backs. There's really no mistaking a bubbleback I guess. <br /><br />But anyway, the engine runs great, starts right up, idles in Neutral perfect right after it starts(no fast idle needed), runs in gear at about 700-750 RPM, although it has stalled on me a couple of times when I'm docking and switch between Forward and Reverse, and runs about 5500 WOT, but I'm gonna work on getting that a little higher this season(would like it at 5800). The only issue I had with it was that I didn't think it was getting up to NOT, and there was a problem with one of the carbs that has since been fixed. I have a Temp gauge on this engine and it never moves, except slightly after I run for a while and stop and shutdown for a couple of minutes, when I go to start up again the temp gauge reads slightly higher and then as soon as it runs for a minute the temp gauge bottoms back down. Whenever I flush it at home on the hose, it is never hot to the touch, just barely luke warm. All of my other motors are hot at idle and stand up to the hands/seconds method. <br /><br />I just really didn't want to run into a cold seize situation with this motor, so I brought it back to the shop I bought it from. Wasn't asking for a refund just for the work to be done the way it should have been before I bought it. I know right now I'm gonna end up pulling those t-stats myself, just figured I'd try and avoid it. The old saying holds true, If you want it done right.....We all know the rest. Anyway thanks for the help, picking it up on Saturday and dropping it in for a ride, gotta get rid of this cabin fever.

 

[ledgefinder]

Re: Engine Temp.

As DHP says, the 85/90/115 is flatback through 1985; the bubbleback is 135/140. From the 1986 horsepower rerate on up, the 110/112/115 is bubbleback. Sounds like they fit a late-model 115 on a mid-1970s adapter? <br />If it is 1976, there's only one thermostat and it's relatively easy to change. Very different setup than the twin thermostat 1978+ V4s. If the thermostat box has three 7/16 bolt heads, all facing stern, it's a 1978+ powerhead. Does it have two powerpacks, or one?<br /><br />I am a wimp, and can't hold my fingers on even three seconds on a warmed-up motor with a thermostat(s). If memory serves, the 1970s V4s do run a slightly cooler themostat than those on the later motors, but it's not THAT different.

 

[Cricket Too]

Re: Engine Temp.

Thanks for the info ledgefinder, pretty informative. The powerhead itself is a 1997 PMC V4 with a bubbleback, the rest of it is a 1976. So basically your correct, this is a late model PMC 115 fitted to a 1976. This engine has one powerpack only, in the back directly above the bubbleback, behind the flywheel. To be honest I never checked to see how many bolts there were on the t-stat box. Just knew it was a bubbleback and since I have done t-stats on a bubbleback before, I knew it wasn't fun. I brought it back to the shop I bought it from so I didn't have to tackle it, and it should have been done before I bought it. But it looks like I'll have to do end up doing it myself now, because it's just gonna bother me until I know it's right.

 

[Cricket Too]

Re: Engine Temp.

So ledgefinder, basically it sounds like my engine is running too cool, if I can keep my fingers there without having to take them off at all. If you say the 1970's V4's run a little cooler but not that much different, than the fact that this thing is barely warm to the touch after sitting and idling for 20 minutes, is probably not a good sign.

 

[ledgefinder]

Re: Engine Temp.

If it's got a thermostat in it, it's stuck open. Way too cold. <br /><br />BTW it as you say, it's when the thermostat's open that more water is dumped down the exhaust. When the thermostat is closed, the water circulates back to the pump, down the 2nd copper tube. When the thermostat opens, the water flowing through it is dumped down into the exhaust tube. <br /><br />If you specifically asked for the thermostat to be seen to, and they didn't, they owe you the job done right. Another shop would give you written professional verification on that point. Not sure I'd want the first guys messing with my motor though - lying to customers comes later, AFTER being a sh*tty mechanic.<br /><br />The ignition you described is that of a 1973-77 V4. The reason that is relevant is that it may be easier to get at your thermostat box. Depends on whether you've got a 1973-77 or newer "adapter". Anyway, you might take a look. I do know it's easy on flatbacks before 1978. If it's got the earlier style themostat box, there will be screws on the top of the box, rather than 7/16" bolts on the stern of the box.

 

[Cricket Too]

Re: Engine Temp.

Thanks for the help ledgefinder, I will take a look at it and see what type of t-stat box I have on there. I never knew there were two different types, just knew the bubblebacks were a lot harder than the flatbacks, so I just figured this one would be a pain since it's a bubbleback engine. I will check it out, but I'll probably end up pulling it no matter which style it is. <br /><br />So what your saying is that there may be an earlier style t-stat box on there with screws on top, that are easier to get to than the 7/16 bolts on the stern of the box, that are usually the harder ones on a bubbleback, or are they both a pain with the bubblebacks?

 

[DHPMARINE]

Re: Engine Temp.

Cricket Too,<br /><br />Take a good look at your motor,and let us know what you have.<br /><br />1997 V-4's have thermostats mounted in each cylinder head,at the top.Very easy to service.<br /><br />But we can't advise well this way.Can you post a picture ?<br /><br />DHP

 

[Cricket Too]

Re: Engine Temp.

DHP......I should have made myself a little clearer, I'm sorry about that. The powerhead was replaced in 1997 by this particular shop, it is not a 1997 year engine. I guess it's a rebuild or replica of a 1976 or similar year V4 115, it is a PMC powerhead. It is a bubbleback and I have since looked and it has two 7/16" bolts on the back (stern) of the t-stat cover, same as my old '76 140hp bubbleback. I will take some pics and post them if necessary.<br /><br />Picked the boat up and talked to the guy a bit and he tells me, that once you come off of idle(in gear under load) and are running any higher RPM, the thermostat is basically wide open anyway, and it's not doing much. Starting to get confused and frustrated, just want a definite answer either way on the t-stat operation and normal operating temperature, just really don't want to damage the engine. Thanks.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Engine Temp.

some where here (on iboats forum) is a picture where they drilled holes in the lower cowling, to make access to the bolts. then put a rubber grommet in the holes.

 

[reeldutch]

Re: Engine Temp.

cricket,<br /><br />how much i hate the tstats on my bubble backs,<br />i rather lift the ph than running without them.<br />it realy suc.. i know but trust me you will be happy when there in and run on the right temp.<br />3 options here<br /><br />run without ( rough idle, dirty engine)<br /><br />drill holes (stupid holes and cursing at springs)<br /><br />lift powerhead ( day's work for a novise like me and hophely you dont break any bolts)<br /><br /><br />i choose the drilling holes bud im thinking as i get more comferateble at it to lift ph.<br /><br /><br />running without them, may be it will or will not damage the ph, im 100% shure it idles a lot better and is less dirty running with the tstats installed and working propper.<br /><br />mechanics who tell you you dont need the tstats just dont want to do the job.<br /><br />thats what i think

 

[Cricket Too]

Re: Engine Temp.

Thanks for the responses guys. I've done bubbleback t-stats before, so I know the hassles invloved, and will deal with them. <br /><br />Just really looking for an answer on the correct t-stat operation and normal operating temperature of this engine. Getting confused by what I'm hearing from the "mechanic" and the info I get here. I always trust what I read here over anything. Does anybody know if this thing is supposed to be running at 140 or cooler than that? Or if the older V4's ran cooler than newer engine? Thanks, I appreciate the help.