Epoxy question??

magnumdeke

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Can us composites 635 thin resin be sprayed through a HVLP gun?? Paint respirator mask and full flow paint booth for safety!!! Can it be done? or bad dream:eek:
 

magnumdeke

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Re: Epoxy question??

Hanging wood deck from paint rack and spray away??? Lazy I guess, seemed like a speed the application up theory.
 

Shife

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Re: Epoxy question??

Spraying laminating epoxy is possible but EXTEMELY HAZARDOUS. You must have the proper PPE including positive pressure respiration equipment or you WILL be in serious trouble. Typical auto body paint PPE will not do the job.

The only time this is usually done is when applying epoxy bottom coats to race yachts. What is your application that you would want to try this?
 

magnumdeke

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Re: Epoxy question??

Typical auto body paint PPE will not do the job.


That answers it, don't need a set of plastic lungs!!!
 

andgott

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Re: Epoxy question??

Yeah, that stuff will kill you pretty quick. You'd need a supplied air system, and you'd have to cover and tape up like you were going after the ebola virus... You'd also need a seriously big tip, that's some thick stuff to spray.

Besides that, I seriously doubt you'd save any time compared to rolling it on, especially if you factor in the time to clean the equipment!
 

Yacht Dr.

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Re: Epoxy question??

Can us composites 635 thin resin be sprayed through a HVLP gun?? Paint respirator mask and full flow paint booth for safety!!! Can it be done? or bad dream:eek:

Sure you can.

You might need a bigger tip..

You will be wasting some of your product ..

But in your paint booth.. oh yea im sure you could do it.

As far as safety .. epoxy cant hold a candle to some of the marine paints out there like Awl Grip LP or Imron.. or even some of the auto paints are not too healthy for you.

But your in a Full flow paint booth ( downdraft ? ) and full face resporator I hope.

You should treat it like gel though..spray spray..clean gun..spray spray clean gun etc ;)

Your finish would be nicer with spray for sure.

You might want to seal up the wood with a brush or roller first to work it into the grain..then prep and spray.

YD.
 

jigngrub

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Re: Epoxy question??

The 635 thin is a horizontal application epoxy and doesn't do very well in a vertical application, it is some very runny stuff.

I've done a couple of door frames with this stuff and spend as much time back brushing the runs out of it as I do applying it.
 

Shife

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Re: Epoxy question??

Sure you can.

You might need a bigger tip..

You will be wasting some of your product ..

But in your paint booth.. oh yea im sure you could do it.

As far as safety .. epoxy cant hold a candle to some of the marine paints out there like Awl Grip LP or Imron.. or even some of the auto paints are not too healthy for you.

But your in a Full flow paint booth ( downdraft ? ) and full face resporator I hope.

You should treat it like gel though..spray spray..clean gun..spray spray clean gun etc ;)

Your finish would be nicer with spray for sure.

You might want to seal up the wood with a brush or roller first to work it into the grain..then prep and spray.

YD.

Laminating resins and Awlgrip are both deadly when atomized for the same reason. One is not less dangerous than the other. A full face respirator without positive pressure is a deadly choice.

If you're going to give advice about this stuff, you better research what you're talking about. Self proclaimed "pro" or not, you're liable for the advice you give here.
 

andgott

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Re: Epoxy question??

This is from West Systems, but applies equally to all-

We do not recommend spraying epoxy products because the health and safety risks are enormous. As epoxy leaves a spray gun nozzle, it is reduced to tiny droplets (spray mist). You can easily inhale epoxy that is suspended in the air. It can cause extensive lung damage and other health problems.

The spray mist can settle on your skin, causing sensitization and allergic reactions. It can settle on your eyes, injuring them.Compared to other application methods, spraying increases the amount of hazardous volatile components released from the epoxy. Using solvents to thin the epoxy for spraying adds to the health and safety risks. These hazards are similar to those of any spray painting operation, involving both health and flammability concerns.

If you are determined to spray epoxy, control hazardous vapor and spray mist by using isolation and enclosure, such as a properly designed, ventilated and filtered spray booth. In any case, if you spray epoxy, you must use an air-supplied respirator and full-body protective clothing!
 

Yacht Dr.

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Re: Epoxy question??

Laminating resins and Awlgrip are both deadly when atomized for the same reason. One is not less dangerous than the other. A full face respirator without positive pressure is a deadly choice.

If you're going to give advice about this stuff, you better research what you're talking about. Self proclaimed "pro" or not, you're liable for the advice you give here.

Take it easy Shife ..

Think for a few seconds on the OP.

1. He has a Full Flow SPRAY Booth! Have you ever sprayed in a FF Booth ? I have.
2. He has a Full Face Respo. Properly worn/fitted there is no way he will suck up much of anything.
3. He is in a spray suit. What do you want .. a biohazard suit ?

Seems about the safest environment any Iboat member has suggested to be in when spraying.

4. He is only spraying a few chunks of wood hangin up on a rack. Its not like he is gonna spray his whole boat or use a spray gun to wet out his glass. He is probably gonna be in the Full flow booth for a few minutes pullin the trigger.
5. He is using a HVLP gun .. not a conventional 50 psi at the tip gun.. HVLP ( High Volume LOW Pressure ). Its not like he is gonna be in a cloud of atomized Epoxy.

So.. at this point I still think he is safe to do this job.

Shife .. are you suggesting that anyone doing any spraying with Awlgrip/Imron ( or any other polythane ), Gelcoat, Auto paint or basically anything that is not water based wear a PPS ? Even in a Full blown spray booth ? .. for Any application ? ..

......

Andgott .. Your quote off of the west system site is a broad statement written by their lawyers legally covering there Butts from liability suits. It does not take into account of application. Lets say someone wants to spray there kids school chair desk ( about 2 sq foot ) in there back yard...with a full face respo and full suit-up .. would you suggest that he go out and buy a PPS ? Yea.. I wouldnt either.

Basically what your saying is This is what 'they' say on 'their website' so you must do this. Does this mean that anyone suggesting rolling or brushing any Awlgrip on a hatch be turned away from help on the Forum ? I mean.. pick up any Awlgrip can and right there on the label it says " For professional use only ". So..do we ask if the member is a pro..and if not then we cant help him because the lawyers for Awlgrip said so ?

Im not trying to backlash on you guys .. In fact I do appreciate your dedication and fervor to safety ( as any member or Mod here will tell you I am BIG on safety ... I think I was the first to suggest Full face respo's .. I have turned away from threads that I felt was unsafe ).

Im just saying .. look at the application as well as the product or method.

....

Magnum .. IMO your fine with what you want to do as you described it. Its up to you in the long run to determine your own safety.

Lets just forget about the safety issue at the moment .. Im just a bit skeptical about your Theory.
" Hanging wood deck from paint rack and spray away??? Lazy I guess, seemed like a speed the application up theory. "

If your trying to trying to seal your teak/wood with epoxy .. you might want to consider what I suggested in my last post
" You might want to seal up the wood with a brush or roller first to work it into the grain..then prep and spray. "

That means brush/roll your first Epoxy coat on horizontally .. cure and prep for your next coatings.

You will have to sand/prep your epoxy before you start to apply your finish coatings on. After the First epoxy sealer goes on and after prepping that for the next coats of epoxy and/or varnish use your booth if you wish.

I am assuming your going to finish with varnish or a polythane ..

Spraying your last few coats of epoxy sealer and your topcoat Varnish ( whatever UV topcoat ) is Sweet if you can do it. It does save time in the sanding part of the project.

YD.
 

jasoutside

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Re: Epoxy question??

Oh boy.........

Hey mag, I know what you are up to. Just brush, cheap chip style works great. Have a good one!
 

magnumdeke

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Re: Epoxy question??

Ya wow poop storm, I think i could do it safely, I have sprayed some nasty epoxy primers and Imron 5 and 6 but i think it is going to work out best to brush and roll, Thanks guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

jigngrub

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Re: Epoxy question??

Ya wow poop storm,

Yeah, two subjects get them going like this... epoxy and foam.

Like I said before, the 635 is thin and runny for maximum penetration into the wood. Lay your first coat on thick and heavy with your plywood horizontal for the best absorbtion.
 

Yacht Dr.

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Re: Epoxy question??

Yeah, two subjects get them going like this... epoxy and foam.

Yea.. but you forgot Vaseline ;) ..

Anyways..why do you want to epoxy coat your wood in the first place ?

Prep it and put a few 5-7 coats of Minwax spar varnish on them puppies and your good to go :) ..

YD.
 

magnumdeke

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Re: Epoxy question??

Yea.. but you forgot Vaseline ;) ..:eek:

Anyways..why do you want to epoxy coat your wood in the first place ?

Prep it and put a few 5-7 coats of Minwax spar varnish on them puppies and your good to go :) ..

YD.

Staying out of the Vaseline fight:eek:
Seems like epoxy is the most permanent sealing solution, thought about the spar route and decided against, everything exposed will get paint or vinyl for UV protection.

"I do not want to worry about my wood again!!" Was that to close to the Vaseline fight???:D:facepalm:
My bad!! LOL
 

Yacht Dr.

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Re: Epoxy question??

And all this time I thought you were doing teak deck strips.

YD.
 

Shife

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Re: Epoxy question??

So.. at this point I still think he is safe to do this job.

Shife .. are you suggesting that anyone doing any spraying with Awlgrip/Imron ( or any other polythane ), Gelcoat, Auto paint or basically anything that is not water based wear a PPS ? Even in a Full blown spray booth ? .. for Any application ? ..

......

Andgott .. Your quote off of the west system site is a broad statement written by their lawyers legally covering there Butts from liability suits. It does not take into account of application. Lets say someone wants to spray there kids school chair desk ( about 2 sq foot ) in there back yard...with a full face respo and full suit-up .. would you suggest that he go out and buy a PPS ? Yea.. I wouldnt either.

Basically what your saying is This is what 'they' say on 'their website' so you must do this. Does this mean that anyone suggesting rolling or brushing any Awlgrip on a hatch be turned away from help on the Forum ? I mean.. pick up any Awlgrip can and right there on the label it says " For professional use only ". So..do we ask if the member is a pro..and if not then we cant help him because the lawyers for Awlgrip said so ?

.

From Awlgrip's website:

The spray-hand and any assistants should wear respiratory protection against solvents which also protects the entire face.
A full-face mask with tear-off vision strips is recommended. These may be air-fed or equipped with solvent and particulate
filters. The rest of the application team should wear half-face respirators with solvent and particulate filters. However, a
full-face mask with an air-fed hood must be worn by the spray-hand and any assistants spraying polyurethanes such as
Awlgrip? or Awlcraft? 2000 topcoats.


These companies aren't writing this because they have to. They are writing it because they don't want their clients to DIE applying their product. You've been shown by both West and Awlgrip that your advice is not only wrong, but dangerous. A true professional would never advocate taking shortcuts when it comes to something as serious as this.

You might want to stick to gel coat repairs and save the advanced stuff for people who actually take this seriously.

I don't work on boats for a living. I don't claim to be a "pro", and I shure as heck don't give advice that could possibly injure or kill a DIY'er. I am very involved in several sailboat racing programs and advanced composites repairs are nature of the beast. Vacuum bagging parts and documenting laminate schedules is fun for us. I know when I'm in over my head and spraying epoxy is beyond my equipment capabilities.

This biggest shame of this whole thread is that this site is unable to clamp down on the legion of self proclaimed experts who routinely dispense terrible advice which is readily gobbled up because somehow post count equals knowledge level here. It erodes what could otherwise be a truly excellent resource for recreational boaters.

/soapbox
 

Yacht Dr.

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Re: Epoxy question??

Again.. thank you for your Fervor on this issue.

But could you please possibly give your opinion on your quote of me on the above post .. please..

This biggest shame of this whole thread is that this site is unable to clamp down on the legion of self proclaimed experts who routinely dispense terrible advice ..

I hope your not talking about me here Shife..

Frankly I have not see Too many post that suggest Terrible or Unsafe advice. Yea a few here and there .. but from a high Volume forum ... .. kinda expected.

.. advice which is readily gobbled up because somehow post count equals knowledge level here.

Again..if your talking about me .. look at my posts for yourself. There are Very Few post of Mine that have something like " Good Job " or some other one liner just to boost my post count up. Most of my post are Directive and Follow ups.

It erodes what could otherwise be a truly excellent resource for recreational boaters

I have to disagree here.. Iboats Resto Forum IS a truly excellent resource for DIY'ers .. Not could be .. IS IMO.

..

I will try to remind myself to call up US paints and G brothers to see what applications there MSDS sheets are referencing to and see if in fact this can be done in this situation.

YD.
 
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