Evinrude 140 needs lots of TLC

[proaudioguy]

Re: Evinrude 140 needs lots of TLC

I replaced the engine wiring harness today. Unfortunately not all the wires that are in the engine are in the harness. It's also strange that a 1990 engine harness came with a 3 wire VRO plug instead of a 4 wire. Not sure what that's about. I moved the pins over to the OLD harness rubber and reused the old purple wire. Bugs me the new harness didn't come with the correct 4 pin plug and the purple wire. The cover for the ignition system shows 2 purple wires, but this one makes 3, so that has me wondering if this VRO and old engine harness were pulled from a newer engine, or if the ignition box was pulled from an older engine. The wires coming from the ignition lid going to the coils DO NOT match the color code either. They are all orange with various colored stripes.

I am desperately trying to figure out how to hook up an old school diagnostic TACH to the engine. This tack is supposed to be connected to a traditional automotive coil on the side, not the output. Every single time the coil fires it registers that. I tried the experiment of connecting it one of the ignition wires going TO a coil and it didn't do anything. Since this thing doesn't have a typical charge and firing mechanism, I'm not sure where to go with it.

 

[proaudioguy]

Re: Evinrude 140 needs lots of TLC

We took the boat out to disappearing island yesterday. Earlier this week I changed the engine harness, and wire brushed the contacts between the spark plug wires and the coil, and between the coils and the orange wires. Immediately upon starting the boat the engine idled better than ever. We seemed to have no troubles running at low speed and no wake speeds, whcih is a first for us. When we got to the point where the speed limit went up to 30 we took off. The boat ran fantastic. We stayed for several hours anchored on the sandbar. When we left, the boat ran like crap. A storm was coming and we didn't know how bad it would get so we idled back toward the ramp area. The lines were long so we anchored just outside the channel and chilled. After a while the rain quit and rather than take the boat out, we decided to go for a cruise for a while. We got past the min wake zone and throttled it hard and it wanted to go. Seems like it managed to blew some crud through the carbs, then ran fine. Seemed to be good, then we got to the next section of slow speed and the boat again ran like crap. Clearly there is stuff getting past the fuel filter clogging up the carb jets. I can't think of any other reason. I'm open to suggestions on how to do with this.

What can I dump in the gas to fully dissolve any remaining varnish?
What can I do to prevent this from happening again? I'm already using non-ethanol gas....I am worried about having the tank full to prevent water in the gas because it's VERY expensive and the gas will get old before it's used. It's got an 85 gallon tank.
Should I buy a second water separating fuel filter and run them in series to attempt to get more crud out of the gas and prevent the rough running?
How do I prepare the boat to sit for a month at a time without being run? I go through stretches of being away on business and such and won't be able to even start it weekly during that time. When I'm home for more than a week, I'll probably put it in the water just to get out but the times I'm working it will just be sitting. I don't want to rebuild the carbs every 3 or 4 months.

How do I hook up an old school tach that just has 2 alligator clips? I need to set the timing, have an inductive timing light, but no way to read the RPM. I don't want to buy a new gauge just yet as I am going to buy a matched set of gauges and redo the entire dash.

 

[wilde1j]

Re: Evinrude 140 needs lots of TLC

Automotive tach won't work. Find or borrow a 2s one.

Primer bulb does not STAY hard, but should not collapse.

Port and starboard make a lot of sense. What if your facing the rear of the boat? Left and right have no meaning on a boat.

To clean carbs, they must be removed, soaked in carb cleaner, all ports and passages cleaned, blown dry and re-assembled.

 

[proaudioguy]

Re: Evinrude 140 needs lots of TLC

I ordered new plug wires complete with spring connectors and rubber boots (and grease), new Amp connectors for the power unit to COIL connections, with rubber boots, and a new #54 mid range jet (someone had a #46 in it's place which I opened up a bit, obviously scoring the bore in the process until such time that I got a replacement). I installed these pieces just now, and cranked up the engine. BEST warm up idle EVER so far. I can't wait to get it on the water to see what it does.

On a side note when I opened the carb cover breather thing, there was oily water in the bottom. I have no idea how water got in there UNLESS the rain is leaking in through the hood, which is a possibility I'll need to explore. Just to be safe I checked the OIL RESERVOIR and found not water inside. I did find the hose from the tank to the primer bulb to be quite brittle so that will need some attention. Looks as though it's part of the pickup.
I also checked the gas filter water separator to see if there was water in there. Didn't find much, but lots of little black oily balls came out with the gas. Could these little oily balls be what is causing my engine to go jeckel and hide on me? I learned the gas tank was used for premix with the original engine so a lot of the crud and varnish I cleaned out (not 100% though) might have been oil as well as gas varnish. One thing is for sure. I'm getting closer, and I suspect if I keep running fresh gas through it and changing the $30. filter every other week, I will eventually get all that $%^&* out of the gas tank.

 

[proaudioguy]

Re: Evinrude 140 needs lots of TLC

Took the boat out on the lake for a test run today. It ran great right up until the point that it died. The fuel filter clogged up and it sucked the primer bulb flat twice. I just bought it 2 weeks ago and the boat has been in the water 3 times. The gunk in the gas is so bad it's costing me $30 every two weeks in filters. Any suggestions? The good news is it ran great, so the next hurdle is the Tach, then to set the timing, and figure out how far off my prop is. YaY! Making headway!

I did managed to get it up on plane long enough to get across the lake and back to the marina.

 

[proaudioguy]

Re: Evinrude 140 needs lots of TLC

I was going to post this last night but fell asleep reading the forum. Man, driving a boat for 7 hours really is a lot more work than you realize at the time. I am sore today, but if I wasn't packing, I'd be right back out.

Took the boat from new Smyrna, North Causeway down to the Indian river by way of the ICW and Mosquito Lagoon. About 5 or 6 times in total, the (brand new Ethanol safe) primer bulb was sucked flat. I know it wasn't the brand new fuel filter, but rather suspect something that came loose in the gas tank is being pulled into the pick up tube screen. Just glad I have a screen there. The bottom of the water separator bowl has a valve to let the water drain. Opening that valve allowed the bulb to inflate and some of the gas in the line to syphon back into the tank pushing the debris out of the way. The boat would then go just fine until it happened again which was at times 20 or 30 minutes and at other times 2 hours. Just random. It was most likely to become clogged during lower throttle settings, but I didn't notice as much until pushing the throttle down hard at which point it would stumble. If I cleared it, then just went WOT, it wouldn't usually get clogged back up as long as I stayed WOT. Perhaps there is enough turbulence in the tank at that point. I'm going to try filtering the fuel using the external electric fuel pump I purchased Friday, by recirculating it through the system and back into the tank, but I'm afraid the 5-7PSI this pump puts out isn't enough to draw in whatever is causing this issue. The only useful access into this tank it through the mounting hole for the gauge sender. not much room to really do anything useful. I'm open to suggestions.

 

[ezeke]

Re: Evinrude 140 needs lots of TLC

If you can get a fix on the location of the tank outlet, it's fairly easy and relatively inexpensive to cut in one of these: http://www.iboats.com/Seadog-Watert...54687278--**********.591426512--view_id.39787

It's a reasonable probability that your built-in tank's anti-siphon valve is at least part of the problem.

If the tank is not fiberglass, the particles are probably from not having alcohol resistant fuel line.

 

[proaudioguy]

Re: Evinrude 140 needs lots of TLC

If you can get a fix on the location of the tank outlet, it's fairly easy and relatively inexpensive to cut in one of these: http://www.iboats.com/Seadog-Watert...54687278--**********.591426512--view_id.39787

It's a reasonable probability that your built-in tank's anti-siphon valve is at least part of the problem.

If the tank is not fiberglass, the particles are probably from not having alcohol resistant fuel line.

The tank is plastic. And yes I agree it is entirely possible the fuel that was used before I got the boat contained ethanol. I can't imagine how to mount that plate without a leak. Open to suggestions on that. Perhaps if it was an aluminum tank, I could drill and tap threads, then just screw it down with gasket material, but it's not. The tank is plastic not unlike a water tank. it is opaque sort of a natural color, off white, not quite tan. It has a fill hole and vent hole that are both parallel to the top surface of the tank (so you can't see inside that way) much like the Moeller brand. I attempted to purchase a replacement, but could not find anything shaped to fit in that space without going substantially smaller. There is no anti siphon valve in the fuel line or tank pick up other than what is in the primer bulb. I checked this thoroughly when I cleaned the tank out with acid and acetone mixed with nuts and bolts. Ever clean an 85 gallon tank? It's HEAVY when half full of diluted acid. If it were metal, I would have taken it to a shop for a hot dip. I can't help thinking if I had enough suction (CFM?) and a screen inline, I could filter out the debris by simply letting it circulate for a day. The little electric fuel pump I paid $45. for probably isn't large enough. Perhaps another option is to use a garden hose and simple syphon the tank dry (the flow rate would be high), then filter the siphoned gas. Just throwing ideas out there. There are so many bright and experienced minds on this forum. The only other holes are 2 fuel line holes (metal inserts), I suspect the one with the plug in it is for use with one of those closed loop systems or perhaps to feed a second engine. i wonder if placing another pickup tube in that hole would help solve the problem. Chances are both pick ups would not be plugged at the same time. I could feed a T to a single line once out of the tank. Thoughts? I'll admit, that seems like a band-aid, not a solution. The fuel gauge sender hole has metal threaded inserts molded into the plastic for the mounting screws. Anyway back to the anti siphon,....is this a requirement? I read somewhere is wasn't necessary for outboards, and causes more trouble than it's worth so when I had it all apart I didn't bother to install one.

Edit: Hey it just occurred to me, if the inspection hole had a backing plate, that would make it very rigid, that would likely solve the potential leak issue. Any experience with these? If that is the case, I wish I had known about this much sooner. I just don't want gas fumes leaking into my bilge area. The tank is very flexible.

 

[ezeke]

Re: Evinrude 140 needs lots of TLC

The tank is plastic. And yes I agree it is entirely possible the fuel that was used before I got the boat contained ethanol. I can't imagine how to mount that plate without a leak. Open to suggestions on that. Perhaps if it was an aluminum tank, I could drill and tap threads, then just screw it down with gasket material, but it's not. The tank is plastic not unlike a water tank. it is opaque sort of a natural color, off white, not quite tan. It has a fill hole and vent hole that are both parallel to the top surface of the tank (so you can't see inside that way) much like the Moeller brand. I attempted to purchase a replacement, but could not find anything shaped to fit in that space without going substantially smaller. There is no anti siphon valve in the fuel line or tank pick up other than what is in the primer bulb. I checked this thoroughly when I cleaned the tank out with acid and acetone mixed with nuts and bolts. Ever clean an 85 gallon tank? It's HEAVY when half full of diluted acid. If it were metal, I would have taken it to a shop for a hot dip. I can't help thinking if I had enough suction (CFM?) and a screen inline, I could filter out the debris by simply letting it circulate for a day. The little electric fuel pump I paid $45. for probably isn't large enough. Perhaps another option is to use a garden hose and simple syphon the tank dry (the flow rate would be high), then filter the siphoned gas. Just throwing ideas out there. There are so many bright and experienced minds on this forum. The only other holes are 2 fuel line holes (metal inserts), I suspect the one with the plug in it is for use with one of those closed loop systems or perhaps to feed a second engine. i wonder if placing another pickup tube in that hole would help solve the problem. Chances are both pick ups would not be plugged at the same time. I could feed a T to a single line once out of the tank. Thoughts? I'll admit, that seems like a band-aid, not a solution. The fuel gauge sender hole has metal threaded inserts molded into the plastic for the mounting screws. Anyway back to the anti siphon,....is this a requirement? I read somewhere is wasn't necessary for outboards, and causes more trouble than it's worth so when I had it all apart I didn't bother to install one.

Edit: Hey it just occurred to me, if the inspection hole had a backing plate, that would make it very rigid, that would likely solve the potential leak issue. Any experience with these? If that is the case, I wish I had known about this much sooner. I just don't want gas fumes leaking into my bilge area. The tank is very flexible.

The access panel would be used for your deck, not the tank. The outlet fitting on the tank is where the fitting is and what you need to be able to reach to service the pickup and fuel line.

 

[SeaKaye12]

Re: Evinrude 140 needs lots of TLC

Wow PAG...I really feel for you....that's a lot of on-going frustration with what seems to be issues with a nasty fuel tank.

Have you considered using a temporary portable tank for a while to see if these fuel contamination issues go away?

If it were me I'd be climbing the walls knowing that the carbs that I just removed and cleaned were going to get mucked up again right off the bat.

Chuck

 

[wilde1j]

Re: Evinrude 140 needs lots of TLC

I would consider having a new aluminum tank made, but it's an expensive choice.

 

[proaudioguy]

Re: Evinrude 140 needs lots of TLC

Hey guys,...here's an update,...

There is an access plate near the pickup. There is no antisyphon as I have stated before. The access hole gives good access to the fuel gauge sender. The main issue is there isn't access inside of the tank to clean it up. I'd really like to be able to stick my arms in there with a scraper.

So I had been having this issue of the engine suddenly starving for fuel when on plane. It was sucking the fuel bulb flat too. This was happening randomly. I would open the water sep valve which would release the vacuum and it would then run again. During this, when I would take it to neutral it would rev up quite a bit until I shut it off which I did rather quickly. I can only assume it was burning the oil because the fuel was mostly cut off.

What I decided was happening was the screen on the pick up tube was clogging up with something that would release back into the tank when the vacuum was removed. I bought an electric fuel pump and some inline filters and started essentially straining the gas. I found several small flakes in addition to very dirty filters. We took the boat out a few weeks ago and the issue was reduced. It was still happening but just not as frequently. Last week I strained the gas again and found more flakes. I purchased a pair of inline filters and 2 brass T fittings. I split the fuel line using a T, fed both filters in parallel, then T'd them back to one line, then into the big water separating filter. I then removed the pick up screen, and zip tied a socket to weigh the pick up tube down temporarily. If I were going to make this permanent I'd just use another brass fitting without a screen. We took the boat out all day Sunday and had it on plane as much as all the other outings put together without one single loss of power. We got in after dark and I had to hop on a plane, but I'm pretty sure I'll find the inline filters full of those little flakes. I have spares of all filters on board, so I'm pretty sure I'll be alright when they get clogged. I also have spare fuel hose.

Long run, I may just have an aluminum tank built for it. I'm not ruling it out, just seems like a big waste. If I could just get all the gunk out of this one. It's really not THAT dirty, just enough to cause these headaches. I must say it was very enjoyable having the boat run great all day. We used almost 25 gallons of gas. Now I just need to figure out how to get 10 more MPH out of it.

 

[Jayrock]

Re: Evinrude 140 needs lots of TLC

Be careful adding more filtration. It causes excessive restriction in the fuel system. If you dont have a Vacuum switch on that engine, pay close attention to how it runs. If the motor starts surging, or sneezing excessively, shut it down and clean those added filters...

 

[proaudioguy]

Re: Evinrude 140 needs lots of TLC

Be careful adding more filtration. It causes excessive restriction in the fuel system. If you dont have a Vacuum switch on that engine, pay close attention to how it runs. If the motor starts surging, or sneezing excessively, shut it down and clean those added filters...

Right this is why I wanted to have 2 of them in parallel. I figured twice as much flow. I'm not planing to leave it this way. I just want to run through a few tanks and see if I can get all the crud out.

 

[nymack66]

Re: Evinrude 140 needs lots of TLC

Two filters in line is very dangerous, this fuel system is vacuumed or siphoned out the tank not electrical pressured.
It may cause the engine to run lean be careful please.
Check your plugs frequently until you get this fuel issue resolved, make sure they are nice and oily and not completely dried
Avoid the WOT shutdown its will damage the cylinders or pistons. Remember these beast can and will self destruct if starved for fuel during operation.
As for mastering the PORT/STARBOARD thing is simple PORT=LEFT just memorize this, and Starboard will fall into place
I will recommend you replace the Tank, check this site out local shop plenty of tanks http://www.fpmarine.com/
BTW.. I love Loopers I own both 140 models from 87 ...I purchased a 90 Etec for my brother two years ago. Its has a blown powerhead not to mentioned the shipment back to the shop costs him 2k round trip from SA to US and back...
Good Luck and keep us posted..

 

[Overkill82k5]

Re: Evinrude 140 needs lots of TLC

I've got a stainless 19 pitch I can swap you if you want to see how it will run. I got 2 with my 140 counter rotating and recently jumped to a 23 pitch (really light boat). Since I have 2 19's I wouldnt mind a 17 for pulling the kids on the kneeboard (they like to go sloooooowww). I am in Apopka and it would be easy to get together to swap. Just lemme know.

Jamie

Hey guys,...here's an update,...

There is an access plate near the pickup. There is no antisyphon as I have stated before. The access hole gives good access to the fuel gauge sender. The main issue is there isn't access inside of the tank to clean it up. I'd really like to be able to stick my arms in there with a scraper.

So I had been having this issue of the engine suddenly starving for fuel when on plane. It was sucking the fuel bulb flat too. This was happening randomly. I would open the water sep valve which would release the vacuum and it would then run again. During this, when I would take it to neutral it would rev up quite a bit until I shut it off which I did rather quickly. I can only assume it was burning the oil because the fuel was mostly cut off.

What I decided was happening was the screen on the pick up tube was clogging up with something that would release back into the tank when the vacuum was removed. I bought an electric fuel pump and some inline filters and started essentially straining the gas. I found several small flakes in addition to very dirty filters. We took the boat out a few weeks ago and the issue was reduced. It was still happening but just not as frequently. Last week I strained the gas again and found more flakes. I purchased a pair of inline filters and 2 brass T fittings. I split the fuel line using a T, fed both filters in parallel, then T'd them back to one line, then into the big water separating filter. I then removed the pick up screen, and zip tied a socket to weigh the pick up tube down temporarily. If I were going to make this permanent I'd just use another brass fitting without a screen. We took the boat out all day Sunday and had it on plane as much as all the other outings put together without one single loss of power. We got in after dark and I had to hop on a plane, but I'm pretty sure I'll find the inline filters full of those little flakes. I have spares of all filters on board, so I'm pretty sure I'll be alright when they get clogged. I also have spare fuel hose.

Long run, I may just have an aluminum tank built for it. I'm not ruling it out, just seems like a big waste. If I could just get all the gunk out of this one. It's really not THAT dirty, just enough to cause these headaches. I must say it was very enjoyable having the boat run great all day. We used almost 25 gallons of gas. Now I just need to figure out how to get 10 more MPH out of it.

 

[nymack66]

Re: Evinrude 140 needs lots of TLC

Please note on most OEM tanks there is a strainer inside the tank connected to the pickup tube this is where the curd in your tank is been caught. You technically cannot run fuel through the tank to clean it because of this.
Your other option can be to remove the pickup tube and toss the strainer and hopefully catch the curd with the filtration system...

 

[proaudioguy]

Re: Evinrude 140 needs lots of TLC

Please note on most OEM tanks there is a strainer inside the tank connected to the pickup tube this is where the curd in your tank is been caught. You technically cannot run fuel through the tank to clean it because of this.
Your other option can be to remove the pickup tube and toss the strainer and hopefully catch the curd with the filtration system...

Correct. I removed the screen.

 

[proaudioguy]

Re: Evinrude 140 needs lots of TLC

I've got a stainless 19 pitch I can swap you if you want to see how it will run. I got 2 with my 140 counter rotating and recently jumped to a 23 pitch (really light boat). Since I have 2 19's I wouldnt mind a 17 for pulling the kids on the kneeboard (they like to go sloooooowww). I am in Apopka and it would be easy to get together to swap. Just lemme know.

Jamie

Thanks!
As soon as I get my wiring in order and get my tach working, I'll know if the 19 will work. What is the diameter?

 

[Overkill82k5]

Re: Evinrude 140 needs lots of TLC

Thanks!
As soon as I get my wiring in order and get my tach working, I'll know if the 19 will work. What is the diameter?

I believe it's a 13.75". It came off my '89 140 so it should slide right on yours. If we could coordinate on a nice weekend we could hook up on the St. Johns and do some prop testing. They are very easy to change out. You could try out my 23 pitch too if the 19 still seems too low. When you get your wiring sorted and ready to run, give me a shout and we can set something up. My email is overkill82k5 at yahoo dot com. I get it directly to my phone so it's almost instant.

Jamie