Florida express cruiser selection help

[mjfink]

First off, thanks for any help/suggestions folks can offer, I'll try to describe my situation and questions, be feel free to add other things I should be considering or "dumb" things that I'm thinking!

I live on the water in S. FL (Stuart area, for those who are familiar with the water) and have a dock with a 20K lbs boat lift that can handle about a 29-30' LOA boat. I currently have a 2005 Bayliner 225, which is JUST long enough to be able to board (it's actually somewhat terrifying, but besides the point) that I'm enjoying, but slowly realizing that it's the wrong boat for my area. I've always owned bowriders in the past, but never boated on water like we have here (in the ICW) and the distances are just so vast (especially with all the no-wake zones). Not having a head or a protected compartment is a real problem, and it's limiting my enjoyment of being able to use and take the boat out.

Anyway, I'm looking to upgrade to a larger boat, and would like to get some opinions on what others think. Here are some of the criteria that I really want in my next boat (in rough order of importance):

Cabin w/head
Generator
Fuel injection (I'm done with carbs, they are a PITA)
Windlass (I spend a lot of time at anchor, there's a lot of fun places around here to anchor up)
Dual Engines

I'm somewhat conflicted on the last point (dual engines); I'd "like" to have them for the redundancy, but, more importantly, for the steering; this is a tight area with a lot of boats; I'm a bit scared of a 26+ foot boat with a single engine in tight quarters. However, at the same time, I'm also not to keen on the idea of 2X the repair/maint bills. I'm leaning towards duals, but would like to get others opinions on it as well.

In general, this is the style of boat that I'm looking at:

http://www.boattrader.com/listing/2004-Sea-Ray-280-Sundancer-99523010
http://www.boattrader.com/listing/2005-Four-Winns-288-Vista-98680534
http://www.marineconnection.com/web...m Beach-FL?args=preowned--?condition_id=10426

So, some specific questions:

Is there some other style of boat I should consider for my use?
Could I run these boats through the Stuart inlet (on a good day) safely?
What do you think about the single vs. dual engine decision?
Anything else that I'm missing for my use?
Out of the boats above, what do you guys think?
Are there any outboards that I should consider (it's shallow here, the ability to tilt all the way out would be nice for beaching the boat in some areas)?

Feel free to answer some, all, or none of the questions.

Thanks for the help!

 

[sasto]

Re: Florida express cruiser selection help

Hi mjfink,

I live in your area and have been here for several years. I'm probably not the one to help you with what type boat to take out the inlet....heck, we took a 10' tinny out once! Went to West End, Bahamas in an 18' center console.:facepalm:

Those are mighty fine boats your looking at. The choice would be yours.

I've ran these waters sometimes daily. If you have any specific questions, I would gladly help.

Good luck on your choice and hope to see you out there.

 

[Philster]

Re: Florida express cruiser selection help

I think the members here suggest that you get twin engines once you get to boats of that size. Ergo, scratch the Montery from the list.

Now you have the Four Winns looking like a winner winner chicken dinner, but the Sea Ray has a gen. Still, I am liking that Four Winns.
.

 

[mjfink]

Re: Florida express cruiser selection help

The Four Winns actually does have a genny too (5KW Kohler). It also has a shocking low amount of hours (which is actually so low I worry about it, 95 hours on a 6 year old boat?)..

Why do most people recommend the dualies? Is it primarily for maneuvering? Or more for the redundancy factor? Maneuvering is a pretty big deal in this area; it's tight and there are lots of places to dock that require a good hand on the helm. I'd prefer the dualies for that factor, for sure. I'm less worried about redundancy, I'm "toying" with the idea of going into the ocean, but, being honest with myself, most of my use is really in the intercoastal, a dead engine wouldn't be a "danger", just a PITA. My problem with dualies is the "2X maintenance cost", other than that, I don't really see a downside.

How bad is it to try and maneuver a boat of this size with a single (dual prop seems to be on all of them) powerplant?

I think the members here suggest that you get twin engines once you get to boats of that size. Ergo, scratch the Montery from the list.

Now you have the Four Winns looking like a winner winner chicken dinner, but the Sea Ray has a gen. Still, I am liking that Four Winns.
.

 

[sasto]

Re: Florida express cruiser selection help

.

How bad is it to try and maneuver a boat of this size with a single (dual prop seems to be on all of them) powerplant?

Once you get the hand of it, I feel no problem at all. Twins can make a novice look like a pro although. Are you taking her to the Manatee Pocket for some grub? This being a large boating community and we all understand the docking a single screw can be difficult at times. You should have plenty of help from the dock if needed.

 

[Philster]

Re: Florida express cruiser selection help

Twins gets you maneuverability and sometimes power -- but definitely the former.

 

[mjfink]

Re: Florida express cruiser selection help

Well, my boat currently is a single screw Alpha 1, and I feel "decent" docking it. But it's quite a bit smaller and lighter. I've never driven a boat in the 26+ range with a single screw, but it sounds like it might not be "that bad"?

Yup, Manatee Pocket and the city of Stuart (what a great dock they have there, huh!). I've also been down to Waterway once, but I really hate docking there; that gives me some serious heartburn (ton of people watching, small docks, and a pretty good current).

I guess if I have a single at least I can blame the boat (darn single engine, I'd be able to do this without a problem if I had duals). Who do you blame if you've got duals and a bow thruster?

Once you get the hand of it, I feel no problem at all. Twins can make a novice look like a pro although. Are you taking her to the Manatee Pocket for some grub? This being a large boating community and we all understand the docking a single screw can be difficult at times. You should have plenty of help from the dock if needed.

 

[sasto]

Re: Florida express cruiser selection help

My expierence has taught me the bigger the boat the more manuverability I have. The wind and current has more effect on a lighter/smaller boat.

I've been teaching my Lady on a 23' single screw inboard. She shows no fear, doesn't care one bit what people think........and that scares me!

The Pocket has little or no current or wind. Downtown Stuart you can dock on either the windward or leeward side. I recommend to her the windward side. Put her beam to the dock and let Mother Nature finish the docking for her. The leeward side can be difficult in any boat, regardless of twins and a bow thruster.

Maybe see you at Fins, Shrimpers, The Deck, Pirates Cove, Sailers Return, or downtown during their monthly Jazz Fest.

 

[mjfink]

Re: Florida express cruiser selection help

I don't have the nerve to teach my wife how to dock (mostly because I still hardly have the nerve to do it myself). It's so funny how some people are so unfazed by it and others totally lock up. I'm in the middle; I hate doing it with an audience, but, in most cases, it's not the docking, it's all the people watching and waiting for me to crash into the 50' Hatteras that's parked next to me.

I hope so; my boat is named "Sand Kat", so, if you ever see it, come by and say Hi!

I love the Stuart area for boating, it just couldn't get much better. Lots of stuff to do, plenty of places to dock, if not for the 10 miles of darn no-wake zones between me at the pocket, it would be a paradise for boating!

 

[JoLin]

Re: Florida express cruiser selection help

As an owner of a boat in that approximate size range, I'd advise you to go the Four Winns and Searay manufacturers' websites and look up the archived specs for those 2 models.

My boat is 27' 4" LOA with a 9' 4" beam and weighs 7400 lbs 'dry'. My twin FI sixes are adequate to the usual task, but if my boat were any wider and/or heavier I would opt for V-8's. The couple of times I've carried 7-8 passengers the engines struggled and it was a bit difficult to keep the boat on plane at normal cruising speed- she'd start to bog. A single engine in that size boat won't work, and both those boats are equipped with the stock twin-engine powerplants.

It's great that you can afford to look at such new boats. I envy you. Good luck!

My .02

(Edit: I just looked up the 2005 288 Vista- it weighs 10,000 lbs. My 1997 4.3's put out 210 hp each, the 2005 puts out 225, but it's not enough. Find one with the 5.0's at 270 hp)

 

[wa_ssv197]

Re: Florida express cruiser selection help

Either the SeaRay or the FourWinns gets my vote. I would lean to the SeaRay just because the black will get very hot to the touch.

 

[mjfink]

Re: Florida express cruiser selection help

Either the SeaRay or the FourWinns gets my vote. I would lean to the SeaRay just because the black will get very hot to the touch.

Would you be worried about the higher hours on the SR (470 on the engines, 120 on the genny)? Doesn't seem like too much to me; that Four Winns with <100 at the same age actually scares me a little more, but I was wondering what everyone else thought.

Also, sounds like everyone kind of thinks the Monterey might be underpowered (with the single engine setup)? Honestly (as the poster who lives in the area can attest), it's not all that often that I go "fast" in the boat; there's so much No/Low wake zones in this area that getting my current boat up to speed is a pretty rare occurrence (which really stinks, because it's very fast; a 2005 Bayliner 225 bowrider with a 5.7 engine; it can hit 50MPH; but there's almost nowhere to do it).

Yeah, black looks great (my car is black), but it's a real devil in the S. FL sun.

Why the SR and FW over the Montrey? The dual engines/layout or something else?

 

[wa_ssv197]

Re: Florida express cruiser selection help

the 470 hours means its been used, but maintained, the gen hours means they anchor for the night or nights probably. I dont know why the FW has less than 100 hours, maybe been replaced. If you won't be getting up to speed often, the Monterey wouldn't be bad, but for $2k more you would have the Sea Ray with the seond engine.

 

[Thalasso]

Re: Florida express cruiser selection help

The teak will get hot on the feet.You will have to keep it wet to walk on. I have a 07-288 with
twin 5.0 Volvo Pent duo props. Had a SeaRay. The (in my mind) FourWinns gives you more for the money. Check around and see if you have anyone around that works on Volvo Penta. They are much nicer then Mercs, but parts are more expensive. The beam on mine is 9' 8". Total over all length with platform is 30'. I really like mine. The only thing i don't like about mine is the location of the genset. It is on the stbd side and all the way back and i need a midget with anorexia to change the impeller. The price looks a little low for the boat. The osi drives had a bellows problem that was caused from the u joint rubbing a hole through them. Volvo replaced them for the people who had problems.People tended to run the drives trimmed a little to high that caused the problem. From what i was told they fixed the problem. They don't make the osi drives anymore. On another note, i keep mine in the water 6 months up north and i have absolutly no corrision. Thats what i like most of all over Merc. I bought a 2004 SeaRay new and after the first season i had to paint the drive.

 

[mjfink]

Re: Florida express cruiser selection help

Finding someone to work on the Volvo shouldn't be a problem, there's a ton of marinas and mechanics in this area (it's one of the boating HQs of S. FL). However, the cost of the work might be an issue, can you quantify how much "more" Volvos cost to maintain/service?

Does that Four Winns have the OSI drives?

Prices for all FL boats seem lower than the rest of the country, I wonder if that's because we have more of them down here (total speculation)? But if you go and search a model on Boattrader, in many cases, the least expensive in every year is going to be FL.

I went to see the SR today, unfortunately, it's already sold to someone in S. America, but I got to get on it and take a look. Man, these things are dramatically bigger than my current boat! I'm just shocked at what a difference the extra 4-6 feet make! The SR was nice though, I'm very glad that I looked it over.

 

[lakegeorge]

Re: Florida express cruiser selection help

I likt the Searay & the 4 Winns. I would go with the 4 Winns on account of the hours. Have the boat checked out and if the hrs seem right go for it. The less hours the less salt water in the engine & risers.
Twin screws is the way to go, trying to push a large boat with only one enging will burn a lot of gas and strains the engine. The safety factor with twin screws is also another factor to consider.

 

[sasto]

Re: Florida express cruiser selection help

I'm puzzled about the no wake zones you speak of. I can fly from Club Med to Hells Gate...Oh about 10 miles. Then 25mph to the crossroads. From there to Ft. Pierce 20 miles away at any speed I wish. No wake thru bridges.

 

[mjfink]

Re: Florida express cruiser selection help

I'm in Hobe Sound (south of Peck Lake). That's no-wake he** for me until you get up to near the pocket. South and North of my house is all no wake for miles.

 

[kahuna123]

Re: Florida express cruiser selection help

Another opinion. Born and raised here. Stay away from an I/O down here. Straight inboard or outboards. They don't hold up in this kind of water. You will have much more control with the twins and much more control with inboard versus outboards. Sasto said it. The larger the boat the easier it is to control. Just takes some practice. In the mean time hit something cheap

Your in S. Florida. Don't bother with a cabin boat unless it has air and a gen. Wifey aint gonna put up with 90F on the hook with no breeze.

I cannot count the people I have run across that have made the $50,000-$60,000 mistake not knowing what to buy and from your post you could be headed that direction. Just go online and look at all the eggshell I/O's for sale here and why they are so cheap. Don't misunderstand up north 3-4 months a year in great fresh water they serve their purpose for a very reasonable price.
Please get anything you buy surveyed first. Please go to this website and read read read. Especially the boat reviews and "buying a boat" The reviews will give yo some insight and what to look out for.

http://www.yachtsurvey.com/

 

[Thalasso]

Re: Florida express cruiser selection help

Another opinion. Born and raised here. Stay away from an I/O down here. Straight inboard or outboards. They don't hold up in this kind of water. You will have much more control with the twins and much more control with inboard versus outboards. Sasto said it. The larger the boat the easier it is to control. Just takes some practice. In the mean time hit something cheap

Your in S. Florida. Don't bother with a cabin boat unless it has air and a gen. Wifey aint gonna put up with 90F on the hook with no breeze.

I cannot count the people I have run across that have made the $50,000-$60,000 mistake not knowing what to buy and from your post you could be headed that direction. Just go online and look at all the eggshell I/O's for sale here and why they are so cheap. Don't misunderstand up north 3-4 months a year in great fresh water they serve their purpose for a very reasonable price.
Please get anything you buy surveyed first. Please go to this website and read read read. Especially the boat reviews and "buying a boat" The reviews will give yo some insight and what to look out for.

http://www.yachtsurvey.com/

You are right on with this post. I to would buy v drives in the FourWinns. Stay away from that FourWinns you are looking at even if you want I/O's. They have the Os drives that are no longer produced because of design problems that tore up the bellows.