Florida express cruiser selection help

[mjfink]

Re: Florida express cruiser selection help

Does this statement hold true even when the boat is lifted? My boat's only in the water for maybe 100 hours a year, the rest of the time it's flushed (Salt-Away, if that matters) and 10 feet above the water on my lift. I'm not asking to be "smart", I really want to know if your opinion changes with a lifted boat.

I love outboards. But can't find a boat in the layout I want with OB engines. And inboards scare me.. It's so shallow in the areas I run, I'm afraid I'd hit that and bend the crap out of the shaft more times than my checkbook would tolerate.

Please don't take this as "I'm set in my ways and buying what I want", I really value everyone's opinion and appreciate the suggestions and comments!

Another opinion. Born and raised here. Stay away from an I/O down here. Straight inboard or outboards. They don't hold up in this kind of water. You will have much more control with the twins and much more control with inboard versus outboards. Sasto said it. The larger the boat the easier it is to control. Just takes some practice. In the mean time hit something cheap

Your in S. Florida. Don't bother with a cabin boat unless it has air and a gen. Wifey aint gonna put up with 90F on the hook with no breeze.

I cannot count the people I have run across that have made the $50,000-$60,000 mistake not knowing what to buy and from your post you could be headed that direction. Just go online and look at all the eggshell I/O's for sale here and why they are so cheap. Don't misunderstand up north 3-4 months a year in great fresh water they serve their purpose for a very reasonable price.
Please get anything you buy surveyed first. Please go to this website and read read read. Especially the boat reviews and "buying a boat" The reviews will give yo some insight and what to look out for.

http://www.yachtsurvey.com/

 

[sasto]

Re: Florida express cruiser selection help

Gee mj...I don't know what advice to give you. There are a couple streaches of water north and south of you where you can run. I don't know, but I've been in these waters around your place for years with a 5' draft and never ran aground.

Are you talking to your neighbors about your choice? Every kind of boat imagineable in these parts.

I vote for a pontoon. Beach her at the Sandbar and enjoy yourself! Take her snorkeling in the crystal clear waters near Jupiter Inlet. Stick her nose offshore on a good day for some lobster. You can be Downtown Stuart in an hour. Alot of maintenance on those boats your looking at.......something like 5G's a year plus all your time. 100 hours a year on a boat=300 hours of love she needs. Don't ask me how I know.

Good Luck! Always.

 

[mjfink]

Re: Florida express cruiser selection help

Does this statement hold true even when the boat is lifted? My boat's only in the water for maybe 100 hours a year, the rest of the time it's flushed (Salt-Away, if that matters) and 10 feet above the water on my lift. I'm not asking to be "smart", I really want to know if your opinion changes with a lifted boat.

I love outboards. But can't find a boat in the layout I want with OB engines. And inboards scare me.. It's so shallow in the areas I run, I'm afraid I'd hit that and bend the crap out of the shaft more times than my checkbook would tolerate. Any recommendations for outboards with a similar layout to the boats that I showed above?

Please don't take this as "I'm set in my ways and buying what I want", I really value everyone's opinion and appreciate the suggestions and comments!

Another opinion. Born and raised here. Stay away from an I/O down here. Straight inboard or outboards. They don't hold up in this kind of water. You will have much more control with the twins and much more control with inboard versus outboards. Sasto said it. The larger the boat the easier it is to control. Just takes some practice. In the mean time hit something cheap

Your in S. Florida. Don't bother with a cabin boat unless it has air and a gen. Wifey aint gonna put up with 90F on the hook with no breeze.

I cannot count the people I have run across that have made the $50,000-$60,000 mistake not knowing what to buy and from your post you could be headed that direction. Just go online and look at all the eggshell I/O's for sale here and why they are so cheap. Don't misunderstand up north 3-4 months a year in great fresh water they serve their purpose for a very reasonable price.
Please get anything you buy surveyed first. Please go to this website and read read read. Especially the boat reviews and "buying a boat" The reviews will give yo some insight and what to look out for.

http://www.yachtsurvey.com/

 

[mjfink]

Re: Florida express cruiser selection help

"I don't know, but I've been in these waters around your place for years with a 5' draft and never ran aground. "

Holy crap. That's a lotta draft for the ICW!

I've run aground a few times in this area. Once at the Stuart Inlet Park (the docks on the ICW just south of Stuart Inlet. That s**t is shallow as sin coming up to the docks.

Once coming out of Tiki 52 (my own fault, I went north off the fuel docks; you've got to hug the boat slips to have any water there).

And plenty of times I get "right to the edge" at Peck Lake. I've never run aground there but you certainly easily could, it's deep north of the marker, but, south of it, it gets pretty shallow in spots.

I'd love an outboard so that I could pull right up on the Jupiter sandbar, or, alternatively, so that I could pull in right off the ICW where all those with OBs do in Jupiter. Just not happening with at IO though, the water is so skinny there; I'm sure it's "doable" if you know the area really well, but it's tight, you'd need to be careful.

 

[Thalasso]

Re: Florida express cruiser selection help

"I don't know, but I've been in these waters around your place for years with a 5' draft and never ran aground. "

Holy crap. That's a lotta draft for the ICW!

I've run aground a few times in this area. Once at the Stuart Inlet Park (the docks on the ICW just south of Stuart Inlet. That s**t is shallow as sin coming up to the docks.

Once coming out of Tiki 52 (my own fault, I went north off the fuel docks; you've got to hug the boat slips to have any water there).

And plenty of times I get "right to the edge" at Peck Lake. I've never run aground there but you certainly easily could, it's deep north of the marker, but, south of it, it gets pretty shallow in spots.

I'd love an outboard so that I could pull right up on the Jupiter sandbar, or, alternatively, so that I could pull in right off the ICW where all those with OBs do in Jupiter. Just not happening with at IO though, the water is so skinny there; I'm sure it's "doable" if you know the area really well, but it's tight, you'd need to be careful.

I have to disagree that an I/O can't get in shallow water like your O/B. When you trim the outdrives up they will be above the keel.The only thing that changes is the draft of the boat is the size.30 drafts more then a 24 and so on. The 288 drives up drafts around 28 in. Drives down around 36 and that changes when you go bigger in boats.The v drives is what you have to watch.

 

[mjfink]

Re: Florida express cruiser selection help

I have to disagree that an I/O can't get in shallow water like your O/B. When you trim the outdrives up they will be above the keel.The only thing that changes is the draft of the boat is the size.30 drafts more then a 24 and so on. The 288 drives up drafts around 28 in. Drives down around 36 and that changes when you go bigger in boats.The v drives is what you have to watch.

Really? I thought that I/Os always had more min draw than and outboard (because you can get an O/B pretty much totally out of the water)? Is it really that similar (or identical) between an I/O and an O/B? I'm wondering if people with O/Bs just feel more comfortable running them right up on the beach because they can just use the trim to get the skeg out if it sticks...

Any ideas on an O/B drive boat that's "similar" to the boats that I'm looking at? I guess we could start with the obvious, who makes an O/B express cruiser?

 

[ewenm]

Re: Florida express cruiser selection help

you can trim the IO up so that it is at about the same level as the bottom of the boat......you just cant run it like that, that said the IO,s on a twin engine boat dont sit as deep as on a single engine, cause they are mounted up the V a bit, my current boat is 32 feet 10,000lbs and has twin efi 4.3 mercruisers and bravo 2 drives, and doesn't draw anymore water than did my bayliner ciera 2255 with single drive.

i also cruise at 26 mph (gps) and 3600 rpm, i love the twins but wouldn't call it a deal breaker for handling, yes maintenance is twice as much, but fuel burn for me is not double , its only half as much again as it was with the single motor

i think the 4.3 efi,s give a great compromise between weight power and economy, as i said i cruise at 26 mph and 3600 rpm i dont have any issues getting on plain , doesn't matter how many people are on board and i can nudge 40 mph on a good day, plenty fast enough for me

i am slightly under proped, with full fuel tanks (500 litres) and two people on board and a freshly cleaned (anti fouled ) hull i can run 5000 rpm

maybe thats why its so livelily

 

[kahuna123]

Re: Florida express cruiser selection help

I understand your statement concerning the boat being on a lift. I/O's just take a beating here. I understand you are from the North and everyone runs them there. The bellows dry out and rot in this weather. Salt is really hard on the seals. The water is very warm and they run hot.

NOT using a boat here is much worse than running it everyday. If your only use is going to be 100 a year and most of that is in the ICW Sasto's right. Buy a pontoon with an outboard and be done with it. Save your money and all that aggravation. Going to the Bimini, the Keys, fishing offshore, running the ditch up North, different story.
When you get into a 30 plus it's usually 10% of the purchase price to maintain it in good condition per year. Systems on a boat fail more often from non use down here than wearing out. I maintained many boats in the marina where my shop was. Buying a large, not well made boat is going to cost you many times more in money and aggravation than a smaller well made boat.

Around 40 of us took our boats down to Terra Verde 2 a couple of years ago. Almost everyone with the exception of me had a 30ft plus cruiser with air and a gen. I had a sportfish with no air. We all docked in the marina. All had available shore power. And all but one couple rented a hotel room.

 

[mjfink]

Re: Florida express cruiser selection help

Most of my use is in the ICW (maybe all), but I'm not sure a pontoon would work for me, I need something that's got some "below deck" space (at least a head, and preferably a place to store things). I have a bowrider now, and my biggest complaint is that there's nowhere to really get out of the weather.

Can you (or someone) make some recommendations on an "outboard cruiser"? I'm interested in going to OBs; I really don't see much/any downside to them in this area, and it just seems that everyone agrees, outboards are better built for this kind of area. My problem is that I've never seen an outboard that has a layout similar to something like a Sundancer. Can you suggest some brands that I should be looking at?

I understand your statement concerning the boat being on a lift. I/O's just take a beating here. I understand you are from the North and everyone runs them there. The bellows dry out and rot in this weather. Salt is really hard on the seals. The water is very warm and they run hot.

NOT using a boat here is much worse than running it everyday. If your only use is going to be 100 a year and most of that is in the ICW Sasto's right. Buy a pontoon with an outboard and be done with it. Save your money and all that aggravation. Going to the Bimini, the Keys, fishing offshore, running the ditch up North, different story.
When you get into a 30 plus it's usually 10% of the purchase price to maintain it in good condition per year. Systems on a boat fail more often from non use down here than wearing out. I maintained many boats in the marina where my shop was. Buying a large, not well made boat is going to cost you many times more in money and aggravation than a smaller well made boat.

Around 40 of us took our boats down to Terra Verde 2 a couple of years ago. Almost everyone with the exception of me had a 30ft plus cruiser with air and a gen. I had a sportfish with no air. We all docked in the marina. All had available shore power. And all but one couple rented a hotel room.

 

[sasto]

Re: Florida express cruiser selection help

Some around here swear by their Pro-Lines

http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1999-Pro-Line-2950-Midcabin-94066034

 

[mjfink]

Re: Florida express cruiser selection help

Thanks so much for that suggestion, I'm going down to the FLL boat show this weekend, so I'll make sure to check out the Pro-Line booth.

I'm not crazy right? It does seem pretty hard to find an OB drive boat that's similar to the SR/Montery/Four Winns design, right? They seem much more utilitarian (less warm/soft surfaces, more built to stand up to years of use/abuse) and mostly are hardcore fish boats. And if that's what I wanted to do, no question, that would be a no brainer. But it's pretty hard to find that express cruiser setup in an OB configuration. Anyone have any idea why? Is it just that people buying express cruisers are more "how does it look" than "how does it hold up"? Or is there some other reason that they seem to be 90% IO or IB drive?

Some around here swear by their Pro-Lines

http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1999-Pro-Line-2950-Midcabin-94066034

 

[kahuna123]

Re: Florida express cruiser selection help

Yes that is correct. Most of that style boat is meant to sell in the showroom. Wifey appeal. I/Os are still cheap for manufactures to install. I would look very hard at some type of walk around. Pro Line is a good boat for the money. The cabin will get you out of the rain, and store things in a boat this size. Without air and a gen you are not going to use the cabin much if at all. If you really want to enjoy boating here by utilitarian. Take it home rinse it out with the hose and enjoy.

 

[mjfink]

Re: Florida express cruiser selection help

Well, at least I'm not crazy. It seems like there's about a 10-1 relationship IO to OB in the type of boat that I'm looking for. Makes sense though, my wife is in love with the "look" of a Dancer; it's going to be much harder to sell her on something like that ProLine. It's not as "pretty". But it will probably last for 30 years (the hull anyway) and be far more reliable (a guess).

I don't really need (and I'm not sure I care to lose the space) a walkaround, anything like that out there in the market? Something with a full cabin (step through to to the bow) with an OB engine? Basically a Sundancer layout? Or are most/all of the OB drives more "fishing focused" and have the CC or walkaround layout?

Yes that is correct. Most of that style boat is meant to sell in the showroom. Wifey appeal. I/Os are still cheap for manufactures to install. I would look very hard at some type of walk around. Pro Line is a good boat for the money. The cabin will get you out of the rain, and store things in a boat this size. Without air and a gen you are not going to use the cabin much if at all. If you really want to enjoy boating here by utilitarian. Take it home rinse it out with the hose and enjoy.

 

[Thalasso]

Re: Florida express cruiser selection help

Some around here swear by their Pro-Lines

http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1999-Pro-Line-2950-Midcabin-94066034

I don't think ProLine makes a crusier. Isn't it basically a walk around. The other thing is, with the problems with Proline-Fountian and Baha having financial problems.Don't know if it is true anymore but i didn't like the oil-gas mix smoke smell from the ob. I know tecnology has come along way with the 2cycle and now the 4 cycle. If you want a crusier make sure you get one with A/c. I have never seen a crusier with an o/b. If you could find one with V drives you will have less maintance but you won't be able to use a lift.V drives are the way to go, but you can't beach them.

On those I/Os, if you have raw water cooling, you will need to replace risers and manifolds, every 8-9 years. The cost is significant but the job is easy. I would pull each manifold bolt in turn and rub some marine grease on the threads so it won't seize. Decent quality boats like Maxum should already have marine wiring and hardware, so no worries there.

 

[mjfink]

Re: Florida express cruiser selection help

Yeah, VDrive or straight inboard is probably out for me. I have a big lift for the boat (and can't tie up without using it) and, also, it's shallow here; I really don't care for the idea of hitting the bottom and bending shafts. The IO is bad enough, that's a huge advantage (IMHO) to the pure outboard.

Yes, it looks like a walkaround. I'd much rather have a purpose built cruiser, I don't care to be out on the bow for any reason, I'd rather have the space in the cabin.

I don't think ProLine makes a crusier. Isn't it basically a walk around. The other thing is, with the problems with Proline-Fountian and Baha having financial problems.Don't know if it is true anymore but i didn't like the oil-gas mix smoke smell from the ob. I know tecnology has come along way with the 2cycle and now the 4 cycle. If you want a crusier make sure you get one with A/c. I have never seen a crusier with an o/b. If you could find one with V drives you will have less maintance but you won't be able to use a lift.V drives are the way to go, but you can't beach them.

On those I/Os, if you have raw water cooling, you will need to replace risers and manifolds, every 8-9 years. The cost is significant but the job is easy. I would pull each manifold bolt in turn and rub some marine grease on the threads so it won't seize. Decent quality boats like Maxum should already have marine wiring and hardware, so no worries there.

 

[sasto]

Re: Florida express cruiser selection help

Ft Lauderdale Boat Show coming up!

 

[mjfink]

Re: Florida express cruiser selection help

I'll be down there on Saturday. I'll be the idiot asking for an "outboard powered cruiser". So, if you see me, please come on over and have a laugh at my expense.

Ft Lauderdale Boat Show coming up!

 

[JoLin]

Re: Florida express cruiser selection help

As much as many of you dislike express cruisers, they have a place in the general scheme of things. Here's what I've gleaned from the OP's posts:

- the boat will spend most of its time on a lift, out of the water. That in itself negates most of the arguments against running an I/O in salt water. Still a concern? All but the cheapest boats in that size range have SS hardware and fittings- not zamac. If he's scared to death of exposing the drivetrain to salt, regular flushing and zinc changes will solve that.

- he'll spend virtually all of his time in semi-protected water. He doesn't need a Bertram.

- he and 'the admiral' would like to spend their time on the water in relative comfort, with A/C, a real head and space inside the cabin for cooking, storage and moving about.

- he boats in relatively shallow water- straight inboards need to come off the list.

- it won't be just his boat- it'll be their boat. mjfink, before you go all 'manly man' and decide to forego the creature comforts, think about what you really want to DO with the boat. Regular runs to Bimini are one thing- spending weekends on the hook, or cruising to various marinas and waterfront restaurants are quite another. Turn the wife off to cruising and you'll both miss out on many good times.

My wife and I settled on the express cruiser type a few years ago, and it's been great for us and the type of boating we do. An outboard-powered walk-around cuddy? BTDT- no thanks.

My .02 and last post in this thread.

 

[CaptainKickback]

Re: Florida express cruiser selection help

How about a Keel Boat? Lol (reference to Walt Disney Davey Croket series ? 1960s) ? Mike Fink, King of the River. I?m dating myself?

Lots to say here?

I boat the ICW and ocean around Boca Raton and had a Cruiser?s Yachts 2870 for 9 years (very similar to what you are looking at). Twin I/O, generator, and A/C. Great boat. Recommend one if you can find it.

I definitely understand you being pulled to outboards here in South Florida (salt water, shallow water, etc). But generally, manufacturers make fishing boats (and bow riders, no good here) with OBs and cruising boats get I/Os or inboards. I want a cruiser with all the amenities I had in the 2870 but I want OBs. So, I feel the same way you do. In fact, I feel so strongly about it that I am building my own boat the way I want. 26 footer, converting twin I/Os to OBs, leaving room for generator and air, lots of gas, and plenty of water (I started a thread ? 81 Sea Ray SRV 255 Sedan Bridge?).

2 engines ? Boating here, I would not be without twins. Dependability is one, but then Sea Tow and Towboat US are everywhere, but maneuverability is key. Not only the tight spots you mention, but when you add in wind and current, I?ve seen so many out of control situations. You say you don?t go offshore very much, but with a boat that size, you will soon want to. Two engines is peace of mind.

Regarding the stern drives ? as long as you keep them on the lift, they are no problem. Definitely do not get I/Os if you will keep the boat on the water.

Shallow Water ? Yes, a lot of shallow water here. We have Lake Boca (1.5? to 10? depth). 150 to 200 boats anchored on Saturdays and Sundays. We like to take the boat as shallow as possible so we can walk around the boat while in the water. My stern drives did not go up as far as an OB, unless I did ?trailer up?, but then manufacturer said do not go beyond 1000 rpm. However, they did get me in shallow enough to accomplish our ?walking around? goal.

BTW: JoLin expressed the situation very well.

See you at the Fort Lauderdale Boat Show. Going tomorrow and probably Saturday as well.

Best of Luck!

 

[mjfink]

Re: Florida express cruiser selection help

I'm surprised it took so long for someone to make the keel boat connection.

I actually have a bow rider right now. I like the boat, but it's just not the right boat for this area. I need a head (for sure), and, because the boat is on a lift that's a little distance behind my house, I'd really like to be able to keep my "stuff" on the boat (which I can't do in a BR because it all gets wet). I'm tired of taking my crap down to the boat every time, loading it up, and then unloading it all when I get done (tools, cooler, etc). So I'd really like something that has a fridge that I can plug into my shore power and keep most of my supplies down there all the time.

The boat will never sit in salt water. It's not even possible to dock at my slip without lifting the boat (you can't get to the dock until the boat is a few feet in the air). It might sit if we do overnights, but that's a whole different situation than salt for 365 days a year. My current boat (and I'd assume anything I'd look at) has a flush system, I just flush it w/Salt Away after every trip.

The biggest thing for me is a reliable/comfortable boat to go out on for a whole day and probably hang on the hook and putt around a bit. There's no much "go fast" water around here that's not blue, and I don't really care to do that anyway (I have fast cars, don't need a fast boat too). Manuvering is important too, as others who know the area can attest, there's a LOT of crap to hit around here, the marinas are tight (and packed) and docking with wind and tide isn't something I'm a "pro" at. It's no big deal with my current boat, you can just push it around in the water. But something this big, I'm assuming I'll need more precision and control. Just not too crazy about the 2X maintenance cost. I'd assume that duals probably last a little longer than a single (because of the lower load), but, still, I doubt I'll ever make that gap up.

Creature comforts (although I didn't put them on my list) are probably close to the first priority. I only boat with my wife, and I want her to enjoy it and be comfortable. She loves our current boat because of the big sunpad (over the engine), and I want to make sure that I don't give up things that she likes to get a boat that's better (quality construction, for example) but she doesn't enjoy.

Why do those who dislike cruisers feel that way? I don't really "like" or "dislike" any kind of boat, I just think they are all different (and some are not for me). But, I don't have much experience either, is there something wrong with certain layouts that I'm not taking into account?