Force 50HP and NO one can tell me whats wrong

[bentle]

Re: Force 50HP and NO one can tell me whats wrong

With the lower unit off there is no water being pump to the motor. Unless it is force fed through the water pickup tube. These motors will overheat in seconds without water to cool down. Generally I use muffs on my lower but with it off then no water unless force fed throughthe water pick up tube and even then it can be tricky.

 

[engineproblem]

Re: Force 50HP and NO one can tell me whats wrong

Hi again, i removed the bottom housing and thought that this is it, this is the problem why its so hard to turn over. It looked an awful state,as if it were full of sand. I tried turned the engine over again with the 2 plugs fitted and to my surprise there was no differance at all and in fact as bad as the bottom unit was it is not seized at all.
I'd also like to point out that i have no petrol connected to the engine as i am currently only trying to fix the fact that its not turning over fast enough with the plugs fitted at the moment to start. There is no way in hell it will even try start the way its turning over at the moment.
The problem must be in the top end,i.e piston rings stuck or something else. Any idea's guys?
One thing that i did remember today when looking at the throttle was the fact that at the time when it was running(bear in mind it was 3-4 years ago) for some reason i was operating the rev's by means of the throttle flap on the carb, i realized today that when doing this and not using the proper controls that the timing advance would not have been moving with the revs, what effect would this have had on the engine and did this cause the problem i'm not seeing?

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: Force 50HP and NO one can tell me whats wrong

FIRST!!! You gotta walk before you run.
Take the starter apart and see if it needs work.
Do a compression test. Without doing the right steps all were doing is using the WAG system??? Wild *** guess!!
IYes operating the motor with out advancing the timing can cause it to overheat and sieze.If the lower unit was that full of sand then I'd guess the inside of the cooling system is full o crap too.overheats easily.
This motor needs a different muff,see pics.The big round ones will actually cause it to overheat.
This motor with a bit of care will last a long time.
There are built in drains and areas that will allow the junk out.

 

[engineproblem]

Re: Force 50HP and NO one can tell me whats wrong

Thanks Jerryjerry05, when the engine gave trouble that time 3 years ago i suspected the starter so i got it checked over and was told it was working fine, still doubtfull i bought a brand new starter and the engine is still the same. I dont suspect it is the starter but it wouln't take long to strip it and check it out as you say.
As i have had the head of and on now a few times i cant be sure of a good seal for a correct compression reading but surly a lower copression would help the engine turn more easily as apose to high compression?
I would think ill have to remove the pistons to check the rings and crank for damage. Where can i find all the parts i need incuding torque setting for the likes of the head and crank?
Thanks a lot

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: Force 50HP and NO one can tell me whats wrong




If the starter is new? I'd still try to take it apart.It's possible the magnets came loose or just from trying to start the brushes go bad.
The armature could get shorted out.
The compression since it's low on both cylinders, it shouldn't be hard to turn over.
Low compression on 1 cylinder can make it difficult to turn over.
Try the silicone on the gasket after the starter check.
Then try squirting oil in the cylinders to see if it raises the comp.
If the oil brings it up then the rings are stuck.

 

[engineproblem]

Re: Force 50HP and NO one can tell me whats wrong

Ok so i'll remove and strip the starter to check it out fully,
I'll then put sealer on the gasket to try increase the compression and come back with my finding.
Have you any good place to buy parts for the engine when i start buying?
Thanks

 

[glenn property of pam]

Re: Force 50HP and NO one can tell me whats wrong

it seems a lot of the people on here are from the usa so it would be worth some time in searching the internet once you have a idea of the parts you need then post what the parts will cost you there and we can see if there a major diffrence.

if i was the one looking at the engine firstly i would have tryed a diffrent battery then when that failed like yours did i would have made a cable and connected the ground on the side of the motor to the bolt on the starter (cleaned the area first) then if that failed i would have put a rope around the flywheel and seen if it could be pull started. nothing like 1/2 teespoon of premix in the carb then seeing if it will cough to life. i normally work on old cars like the mgb's so poor connections and poorly rebuilt starters are normal. always use the old rule of thumb if i can turn it over then the starter should be able to. i do not 100% trust compression numbers on a 2 stroke its a starting guide like one tool in a box full of tools but lots of things can affect it. a small crack in the casing, cracked reed plate etc all affect the numbers. just like a 4 stroke with a burnt valve low compression doesnt indicate the piston or rings. at least yours are close so you havent melted a piston. (i was expecting that you would have super high compession which would indicate a problem in the reeds or exhast) the most important thing is dont panic it was broke when you started so you carnt make it any worse. unless you are inside connect the fuel and let it breath 40:1 premix when your cranking on it even if you dont plan on starting it (dont rev it if trying to start it or add major ammount of fuel to carb just in case it does start the vapours in the crank case can cause a run away)

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: Force 50HP and NO one can tell me whats wrong

Bad reeds or a clogged exhaust shouldn't make any difference in the compression #s

 

[oops!]

Re: Force 50HP and NO one can tell me whats wrong

lol....thomas.......welcome to iboats.

no worries about posting.

if you do a search here...im sure you will find the diagramme you need

cheers
oops

 

[catfishcarl99]

Re: Force 50HP and NO one can tell me whats wrong

well i have a 89 50 hp force 507y9b very simmilar and looks virtually identical from the pics. im no mechanic so to speak but heres what i can tell you. carb is obsolete. and so are many of the other parts.

the parts that are still made and available new are made by mercury quicksilver. i put an impellor and seal kit in mine a couple years back. part # 47-F433065-2 quicksilver impellor. F A485914 SEAL. these may be the same on yours but check.

type in just your model # 507e91c in searchbar. you should find some parts dealers. the crankshaft i seen was obsolete. $600+ was the tag. you have to look around. ebay has used parts on it too for some force motors. your seemed to be a 91 from what i saw. and alot of parts from yours interchange to my #.

seen a place that had piston at $136 special order part. look around first when you figure out what you need. the parts vary. i did find a place that had 1 carb for mine wich i think your is same at $111. everybody else wanted $130ish. i found one on ebay for $59 used. and it worked fine.

torque specs http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=381187