force 90 power trim/tilt bleeding

[daleburt]

I just got a replacement PTT pump for a '91 force 90. When I bought it I was told it was self bleeding.I am beginning to suspect that this isn't the case.
It's got a manual release valve,which I would have assumed to have a screw slot but it's flat,held in with a circlip.
I downloaded the system diagram and all the pipes are correct.
The motor is pumping but the engine wont go up.
With any other engine bleeding is simple.How do you bleed this sysyem??
Thanks

 

[RRitt]

Re: force 90 power trim/tilt bleeding

it is self-bleeding. when it goes up all the air in the down pipes is forced back into reservoir and floats to top. when it goes down all the air in the up circuit gets forced back to reservoir and floats to top. there is no manual release on '91. Other versions of same valve body had optional manual release mechanism. I've never seen it used on a Force after 1985. And, no, you can not upgrade to manual release. The internals have to be machined differently.

 

[daleburt]

Re: force 90 power trim/tilt bleeding

So the next question has to be,Why wont it raise?
The reservior is full,the pump is definitely pumping but it wont go up. If I press down on the controls I can hear load going on the motor but with up there's no change in note and no movement.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: force 90 power trim/tilt bleeding

You sure the reservoir is full?This replacement new or used?
Don't mess with the release..J

 

[daleburt]

Re: force 90 power trim/tilt bleeding

it's used but tested OK. It's definitely full of oil.
The down part of the system seems to be working fine but there is absolutly no movement with the up and the pump sounds like it's pumping air and not oil..The pipes are all correct according to the service manual(downloaded today).
Is it possible to airlock a self bleeding system?

 

[RRitt]

Re: force 90 power trim/tilt bleeding

it's used but tested OK. It's definitely full of oil.
The down part of the system seems to be working fine but there is absolutly no movement with the up and the pump sounds like it's pumping air and not oil..The pipes are all correct according to the service manual(downloaded today).
Is it possible to airlock a self bleeding system?

airlock is rare and I've only seen it on brand new systems with no fluid in the rams. is cures itself if you let system sit for 5-10 minutes after intial fill.

my first guess would be that your armature is not engaging gears. it will make a clunking, bumping, grinding noise when this happens. It is especially prevalent on API electric motors and also happens when you attempt to install valve body with motor still attached to transom bracket.

my second guess would be bad valve body. there is no such thing as a "good used" 20 year old valve body. Either it has been rebuilt alreayd or it is running on borrowed time. "It sat in a garage". Great. Park your car in your garage for 20 years and see what condition the rubber tires are in.

my third guess would be that somebody used ATF and your trim piston ring is blown.

my fourth guess would be something else, but I don't know what.

 

[hypersniper]

Re: force 90 power trim/tilt bleeding

are we NOT supposed to use atf fluid in the trim pumps? i was told it was ok to use.. if not i better drain it pretty darn quick cause i havent use it but once so far. didnt mean to hijack the thread sorry.

 

[Poncho Villa]

Re: force 90 power trim/tilt bleeding

are we NOT supposed to use atf fluid in the trim pumps? i was told it was ok to use.. if not i better drain it pretty darn quick cause i havent use it but once so far. didnt mean to hijack the thread sorry.

My Seloc manual indicated that non-detergent SAE 30 motor oil should be used for the tilt / trim. Argh matey! Yet another thread pirate!

 

[RRitt]

Re: force 90 power trim/tilt bleeding

The three ram force trim is a high pressure system. On bigger engines it exceeeds safe working pressure for ATF. When pressure threshold is crossed it can penetrate the rubber and cause the seal to fail. ND motor oil and hydraulic oils do not have this effect.

 

[daleburt]

Re: force 90 power trim/tilt bleeding

RRit,It looks like your guess 2 was right.Faulty valve body.The pumps gone back to where it came from and the Force 90 has been replaced by a 2006 Yam 80efi.
Problem solved

Thanks for all the help