Force Timing 180

[BAYLINER BUST]

I'M NEW TO OUTBOARDS, SO A LITTLE PATIENCE PLEASE. OK, 85HP FORCE. MY FLYWHEEL MARKS LINE UP WITH "TDC" #1 CYLINDER ALL THE WAY UP AND HITTING THE MARK. PROBLEM IS WHEN IT'S STARTED AND RUNNING THE TIMING MARK IS HITTING 180 DEGREES OUT. IS IT POSSIBLE THE STATOR WIRES ARE BACKWARDS CAUSING THIS? IT RUNS, BUT POORLY. I HAVEN'T TESTED IT UNDER LOAD YET.

ALL OF THIS WAS CAUSED BY REPLACING THE BLOCK WHICH THREW A RING AND TORE UP A CYLINDER. I HAVE A SELOC BOOK, NOT HELPING MUCH!


ALL I WANT TO DO IS GET THIS THING RUNNING TO TAKE MY DAD FISHING A LITTLE! ANY ADVISE IS APPRECIATED!!!

 

[pnwboat]

Re: Force Timing 180

It would help to know exactly what year, thus what type of ignition system you have.

Assuming you have the Prestolite ignition with the blue CD units and coils.......

Stator wires do not determine when the cylinders fire. That's the job of the the trigger (the coil mounted in the middle of the stator that moves with the throttle). Take another look at how it's wired on the 12 position terminal strip. Also, look at the CD modules themselves and verify the connections from them to the 12 position terminal strip. Sounds like you have some wires crossed up.

 

[BAYLINER BUST]

Re: Force Timing 180

Yes, Presotlite. 89" Do You Recommend A Manual That Show Proper Order. I Have A Seloc. Maybe I'm Over Thinking And Confusing Myself. Thank You Though!!

 

[pnwboat]

Re: Force Timing 180

SELOC isn't the best overall, but it does show the correct wiring for your motor. Just take your time.

One thing I noticed was that the trigger wires for both #1 cylinder and #3 cylinder are the same color!! Orange and green. Maybe swap the positions of the two pairs of orange and green wires coming from the trigger?

 

[BAYLINER BUST]

Re: Force Timing 180

Thank you sir, I'll give it a shot this evening after work. If you see anything else please keep me updated.

 

[BAYLINER BUST]

Re: Force Timing 180

Just one more thought on this. I'm going to check my wiring, but is it possible I put the stator on wrong causing it to be 180 out.

 

[john from md]

Re: Force Timing 180

The stator doesn't have anything to do with timing. The stator is your alternator on the engine. It provides voltage to the rectifier.

I don't believe you can put the trigger on incorrectly from a phyisical standpoint. You may have miswired it though.

Check on page 5-71 and trace the wires in the diagram with what you have on the engine.

When you check your timing using the starter motor, where is the timing mark?

John

 

[BAYLINER BUST]

Re: Force Timing 180

OK, I'M JUST STUMPED. I'VE DONE THE WIRING SEVERAL TIMES.. I GOT A SECOND OPINION WITH ME AS I DID IT. I WENT OVER EVERY GROUND WIRE MAKING SURE OF GOOD CONTACT. MY TIMING MARK IS AT THE CENTER OF MY carbs. it's actually hitting where my coils are mounted. I'm pretty sure the trigger can only go in one way. Any other ideas???

5-71 of the Seloc. One thing confusing me is that the engine looks like I have wiring for a four cylinder even though mine is a three cylinder. by utilizing the fourth cylinder coil, wouldn't that make me switch the trigger wires on the 12 poles.

I've stuck my timing light on every wire in an attempt that i might have my cylinders back wards. just trying to get at least one cylinder hitting close to the timing mark. but they are all consistantly off.

 

[BAYLINER BUST]

Re: Force Timing 180

Do you mean just cranking with the starter? Not WOT. If so cranking with no plugs in the block in nuetral my timing number 1 top dead center is hitting by my coil packs. my 28,30,32 degrees are hitting by my spark plug holes in the head! Thanks for your reply!!! John from MD

 

[john from md]

Re: Force Timing 180

What I meant was 1, pull the plugs and ground the plugs or plug wires. 2, jumper the neutral safety switch which is on the front right side of the engine. 3 put the trottle in the WOT position. 4, connect the wires to your timing light using the number one plug. 5, using a start switch jumper on the solinoid, crank the engine and aim the light at the fixed timing mark on the powerhead just under the flywheel. If you don't have a starter jumper, you can use someone to turn the key.

If you are timing it this way and your timing marks are showing up at the spark plug holes, your engine shouldn't be running at all. The only two things I can think of are 1, your magnets came off and someone glued them to the wrong spot on the flywheel and 2, the key broke and your flywheel spun.

Sorry but I am out of ideas.

John

 

[BAYLINER BUST]

Re: Force Timing 180

Thanks Anyway,, I've Tried That. Perhaps You Are Right About The Magnets. But They Too Appear To Have Never Been Messed With. The Key Way Is Fine. Maybe The Magnets That's The Only Thing That Makes Sense To Me. Has This Ever Happened To Anyone Else?



It Does Run Though. Sometimes A Little Smooth Then Backfires And Off. Always Starts Right Up Though

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Force Timing 180

Let's see---the 89 has wiring terminated on a terminal board on the CD mounting plate. Older Force/prestolite had quick-connect fittings and you could not make a mistake. I don't particularly care for the newer terminal system-- too many small wires and too much possibility for error.

Judging by where you say the flywheel timing mark shows, you are 120 degrees out of synch. Since the engine has three crankpins 120 degrees apart, the triggers are also 120 degrees apart. It appears to me that either the trigger wires are on the wrong terminals or the coils are connected to the incorrect terminals. The internal trigger magnet is staked to the flywheel and short of complete destruction should not shift.

Since coil wires and trigger wires are close in colors and there are so many of them, this is easy to do. You really need to pay attention when connecting the triggers and coils. It really sounds to me like you started with the wrong set of trigger wires and just progressed around so each cylinder is firing 120 degrees late.

Get a Clymers of factory manual and check the wiring. There should also be a decal on the top of the block with correct wiring.

On stock stators, for the three cylinder engines, the two blue wires are connected to the same terminal. Aftermarket stators say to ignore the second blue wire, but in my opinion, it needs to be terminated somewhere. The logical spot is the first blue wire terminal.

Since the blue and yellow sets do nothing but charge the capacitors in the CD boxes, they should not affect timing. See: One half of the CD box charges with the 250 volt positive sine wave of the AC off the stator and the other charges with the negative. Changing them will only change which capacitor is charged positive and negative.

 

[BAYLINER BUST]

Re: Force Timing 180

Thanks Frank! I'm going to clean up all the wires and try again. I'm not even frustrated anymore. It's more of a challenge now!