Forest destruction

[FLATHEAD]

A neighboring property owner had a so called forester come in to supposedly help him create a healthy forest. To cut down dead trees and preserve the saplings and undergrowth. Guy sold him a bill of goods. They destroyed a very healthy forest. Turns out the guy is a timber buyer. He came to my door asking If I want to sell my timber. Took many, many healthy trees and left the dead. The crew the “ forester” hired were Amish. After talking to the crew a they agreed to take a couple trees that were close to my house. For free. The feller they had was incredible. Would grab the tree a saw would deploy and down the tree would come. With that machine handling it like a toothpick. We’re talking huge timber.
I included a video of them cutting a tree next to my house. That one they used regular saw and the machine steered it away from my house. And a video of the supposed beginnings of an improved forest.

A lot of the trees in this video had yet to be felled

Dropping a skinny oak by house. The machine also pulled out that dogwood on the edge of the grass like pulling a weed

 

[dingbat]

Certainly, no expert, but I don't see a "healthy" woods per my understanding. I don't see any "mature" trees. Looks to be a field that was allowed to grow back. No understory to say, with little diversity in age and species.s

Guess I should explain......I have 7 acres of mature forest (24"-48" caliper trees) in the State Forest Preservation Program. As part of the agreement, I'm required to hire a State Forester every 5 years to evaluate and author a conservation plan for me to follow.

Spent the first 5 years cutting evasive species out and cleaning up the understory. Similar to what's depicted in the videos. The next 5 years focused on diversity.

Our oaks are being devastated by disease. We've cut 10 -15, 30" and larger caliper oaks in the yard alone in the past 4 years. Untold numbers of large, dead and dying oaks in the woods. To top it off, the neighbor's bonfire got away from them 4-5 years ago. Burned 2-3 acres of the (our) forest floor before the fire department got it under control.

To my surprise, the forester was almost supportive of the fire. He was very happy with the new growth on the forest floor, noting the return of wild blue berries and Mountain Laurel to the area. He was especially happy to find two, knee high American chestnut trees in the burnt understory.

 

[FLATHEAD]

Certainly, no expert, but I don't see a "healthy" woods per my understanding. I don't see any "mature" trees. Looks to be a field that was allowed to grow back. No understory to say, with little diversity in age and species.s

Guess I should explain......I have 7 acres of mature forest (24"-48" caliper trees) in the State Forest Preservation Program. As part of the agreement, I'm required to hire a State Forester every 5 years to evaluate and author a conservation plan for me to follow.

Spent the first 5 years cutting evasive species out and cleaning up the understory. Similar to what's depicted in the videos. The next 5 years focused on diversity.

Our oaks are being devastated by disease. We've cut 10 -15, 30" and larger caliper oaks in the yard alone in the past 4 years. Untold numbers of large, dead and dying oaks in the woods. To top it off, the neighbor's bonfire got away from them 4-5 years ago. Burned 2-3 acres of the (our) forest floor before the fire department got it under control.

To my surprise, the forester was almost supportive of the fire. He was very happy with the new growth on the forest floor, noting the return of wild blue berries and Mountain Laurel to the area. He was especially happy to find two, knee high American chestnut trees in the burnt understory.

Of course you don’t see any mature trees. They are gone. The stumps remain. Many, many trees much bigger than 24 inch caliper in size. There were lots of nice mature oaks both red and white, real nice mature Hickory of a couple varieties
All the Ash is of course dead.
The junk is left.

Let me add there was a forty foot American Chestnut that is now gone.
I have no Ill will toward the neighbor and I’m willing to help him in his massive clean up of the huge mess left behind. No chipping or anything is being done.

 

[aspeck]

Seems more like a clear cut than a select cut. That is a shame. The good side is the undergrowth that will happen in the next few years. It will feed and protect a lot of small critters for a bit before it matures.

It all kind of depends on what the forester was "going for" in his cutting of the forest. Is he promoting new growth or sustaining old growth? Is he going for maximum wildlife browse and cover or maximum forest diversity and $ in harvest. There are so many ways to look at a forest that unless you know the goals, it is hard to tell if they did the right thing or not.

Sometimes a forest fire is the best way to clear an area and promote new growth. In this area the Department of Conservation and Natural Resources (DCNR) uses controlled burns every year in different locations.

 

[FLATHEAD]

I have no idea what the real objective is here. The owner told the township and me as well he was taking out the dead stuff and some live trees. I’m no expert either but what I’m seeing is the valuable mature hard wood was removed and what’s left is stuff that should have been removed as the years went along. Lots of dead trees left standing. Most of the wood left on the ground are not small trees those are the branches from the big stuff. I suppose there is a plan to improve this chunk of land.
Another head scratcher is the forester went to all the neighboring properties asking if they want to sell timber. Seemed to be after the big tulip poplars.

 

[dingbat]

Of course you don’t see any mature trees. They are gone

It’s not that there are no mature trees in the picture, it’s the size of the remaining trees and the varieties that tell me its relatively new growth.

The woods in preservation is an oak forest. It was last cut ~ 80-100 years ago as evidenced by their size. Most trees are between 24-30” caliper with little to no understory. Hickory and maples, tulip and gum only grow on the wood line. Can’t compete with the oaks under a mature canopy.

I will add that had I known the full extent of oak blight, I would have had some cut for timber when I had the chance. Spent $10-12k so far cutting dead trees in strategic places.

Let me add there was a forty foot American Chestnut that is now gone.

American chestnuts are functionally extinct. A 40’ tall one is rare, but will die of blight before reaching maturity.

In an effort to bring them back in the wild, they crossed them with Chinese chestnut which is blight resistant. It will take many generations before we get anywhere close to the genetics of a purebred American Chestnut

We have six, mature and fruiting, Chinese (blight resistant) and one mature hybrid (Chinese/American) growing on the property that my FIL planted ~ 30 years ago.

 

[FLATHEAD]

It’s not that there are no mature trees in the picture, it’s the size of the remaining trees and the varieties that tell me its relatively new growth.

The woods in preservation is an oak forest. It was last cut ~ 80-100 years ago as evidenced by their size. Most trees are between 24-30” caliper with little to no understory. Hickory and maples, tulip and gum only grow on the wood line. Can’t compete with the oaks under a mature canopy.

I will add that had I known the full extent of oak blight, I would have had some cut for timber when I had the chance. Spent $10-12k so far cutting dead trees in strategic places.


American chestnuts are functionally extinct. A 40’ tall one is rare, but will die of blight before reaching maturity.

In an effort to bring them back in the wild, they crossed them with Chinese chestnut which is blight resistant. It will take many generations before we get anywhere close to the genetics of a purebred American Chestnut

We have six, mature and fruiting, Chinese (blight resistant) and one mature hybrid (Chinese/American) growing on the property that my FIL planted ~ 30 years ago.

Couple questions. What should I expect to see happening next provided all the waste on the ground gets removed? Not holding my breath there. Is this normal practice to run down everything in the way and then just leave it and the forest floor buried in busted up wood?

Agree about the oaks they are all dying here as well, and a beech blight is happening north and is expected to travel throughout this part of the country. I’ve noticed the black birch seems to be dying off in this area as well. Sad to see all this.
As far as the mentioned Chestnut, my neighbor on the other side owns a nursery business. He spotted it a few years ago while taking a stroll through the woods, and it’s since been run over with a feller and skidder.
Guys here are also planting the hybrid chestnuts to enhance hunting properties.

 

[cyclops222]

Always tell the customer what he wants to hear.

Then do it in a way to create maximum profit.

 

[Mc Tool]

Couple questions. What should I expect to see happening next provided all the waste on the ground gets removed? Not holding my breath there. Is this normal practice to run down everything in the way and then just leave it and the forest floor buried in busted up wood?

We call that forestry waste " slash " and it has been quite topical here as the forestry companies have untill recently just pushed it up into rows and leave it there to rot , they do it on steep hillsides too and this is the issue . Recently NZ has had some big rainfalls and all this slash is being washed down into rivers when it piles up against bridges and backs up the water causing widespread flooding and then sometimes wipes them out . We have beaches covered in slash ..........the friggin stuff winds up everywhere AND GUESS WHAT .......( somewhat predictably ) the forestry company doesnt think it should be their problem , BUT guess what else ..... somebody has grown a back bone and ordered one ( so far ) company to clean up their mess . Oh they are moaning that it will send them broke and the rest of the timber companies are quietly 5hitting themselves .
I guess leaving slash on flat land is ok. ashes to ashes an all that but on hillsides is proving to be problematic

 

[cyclops222]

Why we need more greedy companies. To completely destroy civilization as fast as possible.

 

[Mc Tool]

Why we need more greedy companies. To completely destroy civilization as fast as possible.

Its one of them human things . If you look at the big picture its obvious what we , as humans , have got to stop doing and what to start doing to clean the place up ...... and then everyone ( well nearly ) goes their own way again .
Personally I think its a futile effort but I would feel bad if I didnt still do my bit , but I think that as long as there are peeps making money out of the things that are causing the issues ( faaaaark , how broard is that ) they will remain .
I have a theory , if we grasp the notion ( fact ) that energy cannot be created or destroyed , and humans are requiring a wildly increasing amount .
At some point the planet must have been in some sort of equilibrium.......I guess it hit the fan when man made fire , and subsequently learnt how to harness this combustion , Burning fossil fuel has proved to be problematic . It seems to me that most of our combustible fuels come from the earth , pass thru human hands and go on to pollute the atmosphere . Im wondering just how wind and solar farms are going to affect the atmosphere . We are removing energy from winds that blow around the earth with wind farms , we are also removing heat from the earths surface with solar farms . If cows farting can have an effect then so can these variances in the natural flow of things . I know they may seem insignificant now , but then thats what they said about combustible fuels.
Earth is in a bunch of other planets , I wonder if we are in a chain of planets that evolve and are eventually consumed by its inhabitants .

 

[cyclops222]

 

[dingbat]

Couple questions. What should I expect to see happening next provided all the waste on the ground gets removed? Not holding my breath there. Is this normal practice to run down everything in the way and then just leave it and the forest floor buried in busted up wood?

Cut up the larger stuff for camp/bonfire wood. Used the smaller stuff to build the three brush piles required by my plan.

I was surprised how quickly the piles rotted away and things grow back with the canopy thinned out.

Agree about the oaks they are all dying here as well, and a beech blight is happening north and is expected to travel throughout this part of the country. I’ve noticed the black birch seems to be dying off in this area as well. Sad to see all this.

We’re right on the transition from Piedmont to Coastal plain. Primarily forest species are white, chestnut and red oaks. Lots of poplar, cherry and gum on wood lines and land allowed to grow back. Head 5 miles east and it transitions into a mix of white oak, cedar, Loblolly and short needle pine.

Guys here are also planting the hybrid chestnuts to enhance hunting properties.

That’s a long term project. Planted as “whips” (nursery stock) it took close to 20 years till ours bore fruit. A bit of advice, don’t step on a burr in Crocks…lol