Fuel concerns,ethanol,startron,alum or stainles tanks, it effects us all!!!

[03232001]

Wow so many opinions on whats going on with the fuel we put in our boats. It seems if we put it in and use it thats not that big a deal but if we let it sit we get in trouble. First does the ethanol itself directly cause any damage. I mean is it any more corrosive than gasoline without it as an additive. Second it seems that it causes multi level problems but 2 more costly than all are it draws water or moisture like a sponge and it degrades causing varnish and sour fuel. I have always been taught to fill a stored tank to keep moisture and corrosion from happening. Many seem to feel that that will not help with ethanol true or false? My tank is stainless steel with flared fittings to a copper fuel line. Is aluminum any better? This season when i went to fire up my motor I noticed the fuel in my see-through filter was brownish with sediment is that from degrading fuel. Lastly there is a lot of claims made by manufacturers over the effectiveness of fuel stabilizers and cleaners, and now I see some are even claiming to reverse and refresh already soured fuel. The 2 at the top of the list seems to be sta-bils marine formula and Starbrite's startron. Startron claim it uses a enzyme formula which would lead someone to believe that there is an active eating away of gum and varnish? Any and all thoughts on any of these fuel related subjects I love to here what ya think. Thanks

 

[Brentathon]

Re: Fuel concerns,ethanol,startron,alum or stainles tanks, it effects us all!!!

Here's some info:
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc...talogId=10001&page=Gasoline-Ethanol-Your-Boat

 

[1979checkmate]

Re: Fuel concerns,ethanol,startron,alum or stainles tanks, it effects us all!!!

My tank is stainless steel with flared fittings to a copper fuel line.

keep an eye on that, you have two different metals in electrical (direct) contact with one another, causing a composition corrosion cell. Stainless is higher in the galvanic series than copper, so it is the anode. Watch the stainless flange around that copper for corrosion.

 

[1980Galaxy]

Re: Fuel concerns,ethanol,startron,alum or stainles tanks, it effects us all!!!

Wow, another ethanol thread... yay

 

[sschefer]

Re: Fuel concerns,ethanol,startron,alum or stainles tanks, it effects us all!!!

The new merc's (just bought one) are good up to 15% Ethanol. The 35 gal moeller poly tank that's in my boat just barely meets max permutation rates with E-15. The trick that I found that works is to use the Perko vented filler caps and remove the overboard vents. This type of cap seems to keep the moisture out the best of any I've tried.

Your knowledge about topping off the tank before storage is still good in my book. I do store with a double dose of Stabil and I run a the recommended dose for running at all times.

As for the fuel turning dark on you, I think that starts while its still in the truck but I don't think it's a bad problem I think it's just oxidation.

As a side note: I've heard a lot of complaints about it causing problems in older motors and those I've seen and have no problem believing but in newer motors I suspect that most of those problems were already there and caused by poor maintenance.

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: Fuel concerns,ethanol,startron,alum or stainles tanks, it effects us all!!!

Do your own research. It sounds as if you have "drank the kool aid".... E-10 cleans better then any other fuel and the E-10 just takes all of the neglect left in your tank and feeds it through the system!

If you have an E-10 problem then your fuel system has been neglected for some time!

Search the forums.

BTW ethanol has been in our fuel tanks going on 25 years........ feel better?

 

[Ike-110722]

Re: Fuel concerns,ethanol,startron,alum or stainles tanks, it effects us all!!!

see Much Ado About Ethanol http://newboatbuilders.com/docs/Ethanol.pdf It has been around forever. It's plain old ethyl Alcohol. Are you old enough to remember Gasohol in the 70's? Same stuff. Been there for ages. Yes it can affect some fuel system components if it sits in them. Not so much if it is run through rather quickly which is why cars don't have the same problems. Modern engines are built to work fine with low levels (10% or less). Old engines that still use olf components , for instance their seals and gaskets, aren't. The big problem is letting your boat sit for months with alcohol in the fuel, and if you use 15% which the EPA Has authorized for NEW CARS ONLY, it could potentially screw up your engine.

 

[oldjeep]

Re: Fuel concerns,ethanol,startron,alum or stainles tanks, it effects us all!!!

Cool the start of the yearly thousand ethanol threads.

If your boat fuel system is full of crap, teh ethanol will clean it out - really quick. If you have lines that should have been replaced 20 years ago, teh ethanol will make sure you do it now. If you buy ethanol gas from a place that lets water into their tanks, you're going to know it. Other than that I don't understand the issue (other than the economics of the stuff not making any sense). I store cars, boats and snowmobiles for 6 months at a time with whatever fuel they had in them and then start them up when the season comes. Couldn't tell you if they started any different without ethanol since we have had it in MN as long as I've been driving (and I'm 41), but I will tell you that my cylinder index is right around 100 so I've got a lot of gas

 

[Cannondale]

Re: Fuel concerns,ethanol,startron,alum or stainles tanks, it effects us all!!!

Any and all thoughts on any of these fuel related subjects I love to here what ya think. Thanks

OK.....I'll do it......


OH, NOES!!!! The sky is falling, tanks are corroding, engines self-imploding.......in an alternate universe. In this one, as many have said in hundreds of threads before, if you have ethanol problems, you have problems in your fuel tank or lines.

Honestly, outside how well ethanol cleans, the only other real issue is that the ethanol blends tend to burn a tad leaner, so the remedy is to slightly enrichen your carb's mixture.....if you even have to do that much.

 

[03232001]

Re: Fuel concerns,ethanol,startron,alum or stainles tanks, it effects us all!!!

ok guys I get it some of ya felt the need to smack it with a hammer but if ya took notice to my rating and # of posts you would have seen I'm kinda new here. I hadn't researched the other threads yet but will just wanted some opinions and usually i find mariners who truly love what they do are more than ready to spread some hard earned trial and error lessons. I appreciate everyones input. to 1979checkmate I appreciate the tank tip and do keep a close eye on all my hull materials and to let everyone rest easy I'm far from a Kool aid drinking,sky is falling,crying wolf, end of the world type. In fact I have a boat in my back yard sitting going on 5 years now with the same fuel and fired it up last weekend and it seemed to run and idle just fine. Thanks to all again.

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: Fuel concerns,ethanol,startron,alum or stainles tanks, it effects us all!!!

The best thing you can do is to make sure you do your maintenance, use alcohol resistant fuel lines, install a water separator (only if you feel the need) and just go have fun!

I do know that one of the problems is......people are cheap and save the old fuel which turns sour in a tank (regardless of grade and type) people have been doing that for years.

Welcome to iboats. We might be a tough opinionated crowd but we all have that common bond..... we love boats!!

 

[Summer Fun]

Re: Fuel concerns,ethanol,startron,alum or stainles tanks, it effects us all!!!

we love boats!!

Bob, Maybe not this summer when gas on the water hits $6 agal.

My 2-100gal gas tanks are not seeing full this summer.

You all can start calling me .... Dock Mary.

 

[jmarty10]

Re: Fuel concerns,ethanol,startron,alum or stainles tanks, it effects us all!!!

I have never had a gas probelm in a car, in boat in the lawnmower or snow blower. Snowblower and lawnmower is left in a hot humid shed all spring and summer and fire right up. My old college beater cars were left sitting for weeks, fired up and drove away. I guess I will keep knocking on wood.

 

[Thalasso]

Re: Fuel concerns,ethanol,startron,alum or stainles tanks, it effects us all!!!

Fuel caps and vents have nothing to do with the water in gas. Ethenol being E10 and now the new E15 creates the water itself. Get a tester on line and when you get fuel use the tester and it will tell you how much water to gas is in the fuel.

 

[oldjeep]

Re: Fuel concerns,ethanol,startron,alum or stainles tanks, it effects us all!!!

Fuel caps and vents have nothing to do with the water in gas. Ethenol being E10 and now the new E15 creates the water itself. Get a tester on line and when you get fuel use the tester and it will tell you how much water to gas is in the fuel.

Ethanol creates water? Now it is not only evil, but does magic tricks.

 

[jmarty10]

Re: Fuel concerns,ethanol,startron,alum or stainles tanks, it effects us all!!!

Well said Bob VT. I went out Tuesday for the first time of the year. 7 gallons or a 1/4 tank of gas left over from last year that was stabled for the winter layover. Didnt top it off for the first run of the year. Warmed her up to op. temp and ran at WOT a couple times up and down river. Boat ran perfect. Changed seperator before I went out and no problems. Never any problems and tank has always been left 1/2 to 1/4 full for winter layover. Stable the fuel and change the seperator.

 

[mrchev]

Re: Fuel concerns,ethanol,startron,alum or stainles tanks, it effects us all!!!

cars have ran on e10 for a long time. even old engines can handle up to 10% with out performance problem. e15 in older carb cars you might find lack of power problems or rough idle.flex fuel vehicles can run on up to 85% ethanol,but man your gas mileage goes down the drain. i use to race dirt alcohol car and you would burn twice the amount as gas.(not quite the same type as ethanol). fuel injection can compensate for higher ethanol content. gas has a higher ethanol content in the summer than the winter at the pumps.in warmer weather cars like to run leaner do to heat and humidity so higher % of ethanol dont bother them. I talk from a automotive tech point of view. but they are all 4 stroke motors. As for 2 stroke i don't know. that's just my thoughts anyways.

 

[H20Rat]

Re: Fuel concerns,ethanol,startron,alum or stainles tanks, it effects us all!!!

Fuel caps and vents have nothing to do with the water in gas. Ethenol being E10 and now the new E15 creates the water itself. Get a tester on line and when you get fuel use the tester and it will tell you how much water to gas is in the fuel.

so it breaks the laws of physics and chemistry?

To manufacturer water you need free hydrogen and oxygen. Atmospheric air can provide a small amount of free oxygen, and its slightly possible to get a very small amount of free hydrogen from fuel. But the amount of water it could produce is measured in parts per million at best.

The problem with water in boat tanks is that many gas vent lines are just as good at letting in water as letting air in. They also let in far more fresh air which can bring moisture with it. Vented gas caps generally have smaller openings and are sometimes demand driven. (won't open until there is a slight vacuum behind it)

 

[Art Bernard]

Re: Fuel concerns,ethanol,startron,alum or stainles tanks, it effects us all!!!

I don't worry about ethanol, water seperation, etc. My tanks are clean, my hoses are replaced yearly, I use up the gas I buy so it dosen't sit, I store my boats empty during the off season, and a full fuel system flush and cleaning is part of my pre-season maintenance. I don't have any nagging worries about it when I'm out on the water because I know it's bulletproof. Sure, it costs a bit, but knowing my stuff is reliable is worth it.

Art

 

[jeeperman]

Re: Fuel concerns,ethanol,startron,alum or stainles tanks, it effects us all!!!

Fuel caps and vents have nothing to do with the water in gas. Ethenol being E10 and now the new E15 creates the water itself. Get a tester on line and when you get fuel use the tester and it will tell you how much water to gas is in the fuel.

There is no E15.
E15 is allowed to be used in MY2001+ light vehicles. It is not a mandate.


In January 2011 the EPA granted a waiver to allow up to 15% of ethanol blended with gasoline to be sold only for cars and light pickup trucks with a model year of 2001 or laterhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_ethanol_fuel_mixtures#cite_note-NYT1013-57http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_ethanol_fuel_mixtures#cite_note-USAToday1013-58http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_ethanol_fuel_mixtures#cite_note-59.
The EPA also decided not to grant any waiver for E15 use in any motorcycles, heavy-duty vehicles, or non-road engines because current testing data does not support such a waiver. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_ethanol_fuel_mixtures#cite_note-NYT012111-61
As EPA waiver authorize but does not require stations to offer E15, a practical barrier to the commercialization of the higher blend is the lack of infrastructure, similar to the limitations suffered by sales of E85, as most fuel stations do not have enough pumps to offer the new blend, few existing pumps are certified to dispense E15, and there are no dedicated tanks readily available to store E15. Also some state and federal regulations would have to change before E15 can be legally sold."