Gas Drinking Mariner 45hp

[SKYCRANE]

Re: Gas Drinking Mariner 45hp

Ooppssss

 

[SKYCRANE]

Re: Gas Drinking Mariner 45hp

Had some time this evening before I did my packing, so went out and got the Seafoam Deep Creep and the Seafoam for the gas, along with a compression checker from Autozone.
First did the compression check, all four cyl. were between 118# and 122#
ran the engine for about 10 min. to warm up prior to the check. Loaded a one gal. jug with fuel and the Seafoam, ran the motor for another 10 to 15 min. at various speeds, also sprayed the carbs while running, drowned out the motor with the spray, pulled the plugs and filled the cyl. with the Deep Creep. Let it sit for two hours and ran the motor again and sprayed the carbs again. But this time I noticed that when I would spray the upper carb it would drag the motor down, but when I sprayed the lower carb. nothing happened.
So I tried a old carbed vehicle trick to see if it was drawing air or not. I covered the top carb. inlet with my fingers and the motor about died, did the same to the lower carb. and nothing happened, never slowed the motor down at all, so not sure what this may mean.
I can tell you one thing for sure, that Seafoam does what they say it will do. The drum that I had the motor in filled with water turned pure black from the carbon that came out of the motor. And I do mean black. Had to change the water in the tank.
So if anyone has any idea as to why only one carb. is drawing air I would like to hear about it.

Thanks...
Curtis...

 

[DJ]

Re: Gas Drinking Mariner 45hp

So I tried a old carbed vehicle trick to see if it was drawing air or not. I covered the top carb. inlet with my fingers and the motor about died, did the same to the lower carb. and nothing happened, never slowed the motor down at all, so not sure what this may mean.
..

Your comp. numbers look pretty good.

It means that carb./cylinder is not doing anything. There could be several reasons.

1. Spark.

2. Carb.

3. Air leak behind carb. somewhere.

4. Leak between cylinders (internal crank seals).

It is most likely #2.

 

[SKYCRANE]

Re: Gas Drinking Mariner 45hp

DJ, got good spark, tested it with a plugwire light tester, and both carbs have new gasket and diaphram kits in them. How would I check for air leakage between cly. or other places in the head?

Thanks...
Curtis...

 

[hkeiner]

Re: Gas Drinking Mariner 45hp

So I tried a old carbed vehicle trick to see if it was drawing air or not.

If it was not drawing air, then the reeds may be bad. If it was drawing air, then the reeds are probably OK and it would likely be the things suggested in the previous posts. These are my thoughts, anyways.

 

[DJ]

Re: Gas Drinking Mariner 45hp

DJ, got good spark, tested it with a plugwire light tester, and both carbs have new gasket and diaphram kits in them. How would I check for air leakage between cly. or other places in the head?

Thanks...
Curtis...

I'm not that familiar with Mers. but anywhere a line or gasket meets the carb is suspect. Start looking behind the carb for anywhere that an air leak could occur.

 

[Yepblaze]

Re: Gas Drinking Mariner 45hp

I think what it means when you put your hand over the lower carb and no difference was a conformation that the fuel pump diaphram is supect and should be changed out !!

I believe this was one of the first suggestions that you may have dismissed.


Let me explain.

The fuel pump is actuated by vacuum/pressure pulsations that occur in a 2 stroke engine's crankcase. These "pulsations" work against a flexible diapram that sits against a chamber full of gas called a fuel pump.

As the diaphram is pulled the output check valve in the fuel pump remains closed, and the inlet opens letting just a bit more fuel into that chamber.

As crankcase pressure increases the diphram is pushed towards this chamber sqeezing the fuel against the inlet valve closing that, and past the outlet valve towards the carb.

If this diaphram developes a minscule tear in itself, it can act as a sort of check valve itself, allowing vast amounts of fuel into the crankcase directly as it goes about its work.

Many of these four cylinder motors will idle quite fine on two cylinders while the lower two are all flooded out. Once underway the two lower cylinders clear and start running fine, albeit rich.


Your initial description was returned with a diagnosis that 90+% of any mechanic worth half his paycheck would have given.

If you have not replaced the fuel pump diaphram, do that.

If I missed the fact that you had done this already, please excuse me.

If your mechanic that wanted a quick & easy $2500 from you, said it was ok or that he checked it, do it anyway.

 

[SKYCRANE]

Re: Gas Drinking Mariner 45hp

Ok, back from my Ft. Rucker trip early.
Guess my next move will be to tear into the motor and see what may lay inside that might scare me to death. Not sure of any other options that I have left.

1. Carb kits applied.
2. Seafoam ran thru system.:redface:
3. No visible places for air leaks behind carbs.
4. Good compression in cylinders.
5 ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Still open for any ideas from the boating world.

Thanks...
Curtis...

 

[SKYCRANE]

Re: Gas Drinking Mariner 45hp

New gasket kits came in today for the powerhead and lower unit. I removed the covers from the powerhead and WOW what a chunk of carbon that was sitting in there. 1 1/2" x 2 1/2".
Anyway cleaned the head out ,rings look good as least as well as I could see and feel without piston removal, cylinder walls look very good. Decarbed everywhere it had any (Used Seafoam Deep Creep), just hope all this effort pays off.

 

[j_martin]

Re: Gas Drinking Mariner 45hp

Have you installed the $20 fuel pump kit yet?

Everything we've seen here points to lower 2 flooding, and the most likely source is the fuel pump.

hope it helps
John

 

[SKYCRANE]

Re: Gas Drinking Mariner 45hp

j martin,
The motor does not have a fuel pump, they are built into the carbs, which both have been rebuilt with new kits, the major problem is the amount of fuel the motor consumes and also the lower carb has no air draw, the motor is tore apart right now but nothing stands out as far as damage or what not. The rings are in very good shape, cylinder walls look good, no cracks between cylinders as far as I can see. Did have a LARGE amount of carbon build up but that is now gone. The cylinder compression is at around #120 for all 4 cylinders. I did not crack open the block, I do not think that that would cause the lower carb not to draw air, and there are no visible leaks at any of the mate points of the block.
I am putting the motor back together now with all new gasket kit for the covers. Just hope that the problem is cured, if not then I will be looking for another motor.

Thanks...
Curtis...

 

[Holeshot458]

Re: Gas Drinking Mariner 45hp

Curtis
Were you able to see the reeds when/while you had/have the engine apart. Would a bad reed be a possible reason for the lack of vacuum in the lower cylinder?

I'm surprised there is no fuel pump on your engine. Mine has one that I just rebuilt since I didn't know how old that it was.

I hope your able to figure this out and fix it.

 

[j_martin]

Re: Gas Drinking Mariner 45hp

j martin,
The motor does not have a fuel pump, they are built into the carbs, which both have been rebuilt with new kits, the major problem is the amount of fuel the motor consumes and also the lower carb has no air draw, the motor is tore apart right now but nothing stands out as far as damage or what not. The rings are in very good shape, cylinder walls look good, no cracks between cylinders as far as I can see. Did have a LARGE amount of carbon build up but that is now gone. The cylinder compression is at around #120 for all 4 cylinders. I did not crack open the block, I do not think that that would cause the lower carb not to draw air, and there are no visible leaks at any of the mate points of the block.
I am putting the motor back together now with all new gasket kit for the covers. Just hope that the problem is cured, if not then I will be looking for another motor.

Thanks...
Curtis...

Sorry for the dig. I didn't look up the carbs and notice the fuel pump.
If by no draw, you mean that there is no engine vacuum at the carburetor, and the cylinder has compression, it has to be either a completely plugged up exhaust path, or a bad reed valve, or a hole in the block.

If you mean it doesn't draw gas, then look to the crankcase pulse that drives the fuel pump diaphram. I don't know if it is an external hose, or if it is ported though the mounting flange, but it might be plugged up or papered over by an inverted or incorrect gasket.

Don't let this engine outsmart you. 2 cycles go squish bang. If you have fuel, compression, and spark (at the right time) it goes. You have to actually grind away metal to mess em up.

hope it helps
John

 

[SKYCRANE]

Re: Gas Drinking Mariner 45hp

Okay folks heres the scoop, got all the gasket kits in, resealed and tq'ed everything as per the book, and guess what, IT STILL DRINKS GAS LIKE IT IS GOING OUT OF STYLE. So looks like back too square one or get another motor, unless anyone out there in boatland has a set of carbs that they would part with that fit a Mariner 45 (1986).
I am at wits end here, and as I said before the manual is not a real big help. So I am still open for any ideas that may be out there.
I would like to Thank everyone that has given input on this problem of mine, go figure, I can fix a helicopter but not a boat motor...
If anyone has an idea I am willing to try it to save this motor.

Thanks...
Curtis...

 

[SKYCRANE]

Re: Gas Drinking Mariner 45hp

Took the beast to another mech. that is a merc/mariner expert. And now I look like a fool. All the time was a set of bad neddles and seats, so now have two new complete carb kits installed. Should find out today how it is running and what the gas consumption rate is. After that and reset the timing and ran on a dyno I might be able to get back on the water.
WOOOOOOHOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

 

[CharlieB]

Re: Gas Drinking Mariner 45hp

Can you say 'Defective new parts?'

Often times we get in too much of a rush and blinded by what we are convinced that 'It CAN'T BE that, I already rebuilt/repaired/replaced that'

Most of us have ALL 'Been there, Done That'

Surprisingly, taking a break for refreshments, and clearing our head, so as to enable us to literally start over at square one, play 20 questions, how does it act/look/perform? How do the plugs look? What is compression? How is the spark?

We often answer our own questions.

Don't think that you are the lone ranger, we call it learning.

Take Care,

 

[Holeshot458]

Re: Gas Drinking Mariner 45hp

Skycrane,
I'm glad to hear that you were able to get it figured out.
Like CharlieB said, you aren't the first to learn the hard way. We have all been there.
Let us know how your mileage improves after your changes.
I just changed my inlet needles too. I haven't been able to get it out yet and see if there is an improvement in mileage though. But it doesn't smoke, and smell like a lot of raw gas, near as bad as it did before.

 

[SKYCRANE]

Re: Gas Drinking Mariner 45hp

Sorry for the delay folks. Holeshot, gas mileage did improve somewhat but not where I would like it to be but much improved from what it was before. Have not had it out on a long run yet too see where I stand, going through a complete interior refit LOL. Pulled the old carpet out and going back in with Durabak roll on bedliner. But when that little project is done I will set her in the water for a gas meter test and see what comes of it.

Thanks...
Curtis...

 

[j_martin]

Re: Gas Drinking Mariner 45hp

Can you say 'Defective new parts?'

Often times we get in too much of a rush and blinded by what we are convinced that 'It CAN'T BE that, I already rebuilt/repaired/replaced that'

Most of us have ALL 'Been there, Done That'

Surprisingly, taking a break for refreshments, and clearing our head, so as to enable us to literally start over at square one, play 20 questions, how does it act/look/perform? How do the plugs look? What is compression? How is the spark?

We often answer our own questions.

Don't think that you are the lone ranger, we call it learning.

Take Care,

It's not always the parts. Sometimes they aren't put in right, or parts are left out. Gasket under a seat is a classic example I've seen often.

John

 

[SKYCRANE]

Re: Gas Drinking Mariner 45hp

Well here I am again folks. Finally got around to rebuilding the entire motor and guess what STILL DRINKS GAS LIKE MAD I give up, the entire motor is practically new. But now a new problem has stuck its ugly head up so have to deal with that now.

Put on a New CMC tilt(PT 130) it raised the motor up right at 4" higher than it was when mounted on the transome. So heres the ugly. Hole shot is AWESOME, run for about 45 yards then it bogs and will not regain speed. Rpms are at 3800 to 4200. Surges like I am pulling a battleship. Pull off the throtle let the boat coast for a few yards then go to WOT and bam, runs great for about 45 yards then I latched onto that battleship again.[/COLOR]I am going to pull the motor and see if there is any way to lower the motor back down a bit, to see if that will help, it can't hurt. The antivent plate is above the V on the transome. If I were a guessing man I bet it needs to be at or below that point.

So any and all help will be useful. Or a 4 pound block of C4 and a blasting cap and let the insurance take care of it.lol