Glass owner here dreaming about a tin cuddy

[98Shabah]

The wife and I currently own an '18 fiberglass bowrider and while it's a nice quality made boat I've found myself lusting after a tin cuddy. An uncle of mine has a mid 80s 22' Islander with a 4.3v6, and I love it! My only hang up is that i'd much rather move to an outboard after having done a full bellows/shiftcable job on our current mercruiser Alpha 1. The wife isn't exactly sold on the benefits of a tin cuddy over what we currently have, she likes the looks of a fiberglass I/O, I like the practicality of a tin cuddy outboard. I've found a one owner '79 chieftain 18 outboard that isn't overly far from us, it's always been garaged and looks to be in very nice shape for it's age.. My questions are regarding the price and the size.. Is the price too high? What would be a reasonable amount to pay for something like this if it's actually as nice as it looks in the pictures? Also, it looks to be more spacious than our 18' plastic bowrider but is it just an optical illusion or is there actually more space in a boat like this because it doesn't have all the big soft oversize seating and huge fancy dash pods and such?

CUDDY CABIN



Thanks in advance for any input guys. :thumb:

 

[matt167]

Re: Glass owner here dreaming about a tin cuddy

I spent many hours and days camping and fishing on my dads old 21' '73 Chieftan back when I was a kid.. They have room because of the layout and the lack of the really plush seats. For the same reasons you like it, you wife will probably hate it. They ride extremely rough in anything more than a light chop, and the seats are not that comfortable. Still, they are great boats, easy to handle, don't take much to trailer and are generally a fun boat. My dad towed his with a 1993 Nissan Hardbody pickup 4cyl/5spd 2wd. It was on the edge of the weight rating dry with no equipment but legal... That said, the Chieftan 18 is nothing more than an Islander with a higher cabin roof and at $7,100 he is into early 1990's Islander pricing.. Starcraft made the Islander 191 outboard till the end in 2011

 

[barato2]

Re: Glass owner here dreaming about a tin cuddy

i have an older version of the same boat and that one looks to be in really nice shape (in the pix. we recently looked at a house that looked decent, in the pix....). but storage indoors gets rid of most of the stuff that kills tin boats. mine tows fine with a 4 cyl Taco; your tow vehicle will hardly know it's back there. ironically, you may find it uses more gas than your current rig despite weighing less, due to the thirsty old V4 vs your current 3.0. it will be at least as easy to launch.

for this kind of $, you'd want to run a compression test on motor 1st and be sure transom is in good to go shape. if it all checks out, you might see how he reacts to sight of 50-60 Benjamins.

Matt's comments are spot on. it will ride rougher than your current, more sophisticated hull design, although it will be safer on really big or bad water. and while i wouldn't call em overly spacious, it will be significantly roomier. of course, since you're in the Midwest (aka Starcraft Heaven), you might want to look for a 22'er if you want room. get the right boat for you even if you have to travel a bit.

the Admiral might like the concept of having a place to get out of the sun and some privacy for calls o nature; a cabin boat like this (i guess it technically is a cuddy, but i'm 6'4" and can sit upright or strech out full length in cabin, not like most "cuddy cabin" boats, so camping aboard is very feasible) is a LOT more comfortable than an open one, esp with family along. not sure if you have/plan kids, but another big plus is that the depth of the cockpit is like 27" from floor to gunwale so kids are unlikely to fall out compared to many modern boats....those unstylish tall period gunwales have a function even if they make boat look dated. me, i LIKE the fact that it looks like a mini Bertram.

 

[barato2]

Re: Glass owner here dreaming about a tin cuddy

oh. i just pulled up pix of boat like your current one. it will be a LOT more room. that thing has more padding than my toyota, and them swoopy windshields/consoles eat a lot of space.

 

[matt167]

Re: Glass owner here dreaming about a tin cuddy

Yup. The tall gunwhales is actually how my dad convinced my mom on the boat, because it would be safer for us kids.. Sadly my dad sold that old boat a while ago, and now has a '70 Offshore V-18.

 

[jasoutside]

Re: Glass owner here dreaming about a tin cuddy

Here's some questions for ya....

Whatcha going to do with this boat? Skiing, fishing, cruising, camping, big water, skinny water...??? What don't you like about your current boat (besides the IO)?

If we kinda know that stuff ^^^^ we could kinda guide ya towards that being a good fit for ya or maybe something different.

Metal boats are cool:thumb:

 

[98Shabah]

Re: Glass owner here dreaming about a tin cuddy

Wow, thanks for all of the input guys. Most of our boating trips with the Mariah are 5-6 hours on the water, we put the boat in, take the long way to a beach, hang out at the beach for the day (we have two girls, 6 and 12), then pack up and go for another boat ride, maybe tow the kids on an inflatable, anchor for a bit and swim, then call it a day and head for the ramp. Our closest/favorite lake is a 240 mile round trip, we generally take the boat out at least every other weekend during the summer months. My dad lives at lake Norfork in Arkansas, so we also tow it down there twice a summer, that's a 500 mile round trip. On each of our one day boating trips the little 3.0 usually consumes less than 8 gallons of fuel. Both lakes that we primarily go to are pretty good sized lakes, one is 18,000 acres, the other is 22,000 acres. Also, we beach a lot, and we'd beach even more in some less than soft shoreline areas if we didn't have to worry about wearing/poking holes in our plastic boat.

What i'd like to accomplish by moving to a tin cuddy is make our boating season longer, be able to possibly do a couple overnights on it (probably just my youngest and I), and i'd also like to start fishing. The cuddy would provide protection from nasty weather if a storm pops up, and a place to put a porta potty with a little privacy for the wife and two girls

The other things I don't like about our current boat are:
-The cleaning, white boats are a pain to keep clean, and the white vinyl seats are even worse.. For every time we use the boat I can plan on spending a couple hours cleaning it.

-It's HEAVY for such a little boat, with the trailer it weighs right around 3,500lbs.

-The lack of space, both for seating and storage. The bow is fine for small kids or midgets, but teens and adults almost need to lose their legs to be comfortable up there, and the jump seats on either side of the doghouse are only wide enough for the smallest of butts.

-Again, it's white, the dash is white, the gel is white, even with a bimini top up you get fried by reflected sun from all angles. I had skin cancer cut off of me twice by the age of 33, I love boating but try to avoid a lot of sun.

-There is no protection from bad weather at all, we got stuck in a storm this summer and were at the opposite end of the lake from where the ramp and truck/trailer were.. it wasn't a spot storm, it popped up and lingered for hours, we had to dock the boat at a marina and get a ride back to the boat ramp to get the truck and trailer from the other end of the lake..

I also neglected to mention that growing up our first boat was a 14' starcraft aluminum single console with a 40hp mercury, years later my dad moved up to a 16' Sea Nymph aluminum dual console Fish n Ski with an 88hp Evinrude. I was old enough when we had the Sea Nymph to remember how rough of a ride it could be but I figured a 2' longer boat with the weight of the cuddy in the front should ride much better than that did?

Oh, and Islanders and Chieftains are REALLY cool looking metal boats.

 

[jasoutside]

Re: Glass owner here dreaming about a tin cuddy

AOK, sure sounds like you've got great rational to move over to the metal boat!

(Actually you could have said just about anything and I prolly would have made that same reply ^^^)
(Such as: "I love hot dogs." OK, you should go buy a Starcraft!)

With that size family and the activities you are after I think I might suggest something a bit bigger than that 18 footer you listed there (besides it a bit pricy anyway). 1/2 that boat is cabin and the other 1/2 is splashwell. The third 1/2 (this is advanced math for those of you who can't quite follow here) is your cockpit space that will feel pretty small when you are tubing with the offspring (especially if they bring friends) or fishing with more than a couple of buddies.

Nothing wrong with that 18 footer, I just suppose bigger is better in this situation.

Anyhow, jumping up to something a little bigger will just knock out that 2 footitous before it even sets in, knowhattamean:thumb:

 

[djpeters]

Re: Glass owner here dreaming about a tin cuddy

That guy wants top coin for that Chief, especially being it's an 18'er. A 22' in that shape and he might get it. What are you looking to spend? Your best bet is probably going to be to buy the newest 22' Islander you can afford. If your lucky it may be an OB on a pod....

 

[98Shabah]

Re: Glass owner here dreaming about a tin cuddy

Yeah, I may have already convinced myself that I need an islander/chieftain.

I was trying to stay below $7k for a turnkey boat that needs nothing more than some cleaning and such.. I think I can get the same for my old boat, though I may have to wait until spring to sell it.

I think I've just been talked into something a little larger than that 18'. That is exactly how I do math as well jasoutside, and a longer boat won't be a problem since whatever I get will be too tall to fit in my garage anyway. My current boat barely fits.

 

[Weep'n Willy]

Re: Glass owner here dreaming about a tin cuddy

You have the right kind of thinking going on. A cuddy is a great asset on a boat that you want to spend several hours of the day in or even a weekend in it. Certainly the females can appreciate a bit of privacy too and it is a great place for the younger kids to go inside an play. You already know the benefits of a cabin in rainy or cold weather.

Although the Islander you reference is a nice looking boat the price is a bit too steep, esp for an 18' and a boat that is 30+ years old. Most 22's in our area range in the 3000 and up range with those needing modest work priced lower. Unless you are really hell bent on getting that particular one and don't mind spending that much then maybe it would be a good deal for you but I have to agree with the others on 2' itis.

As far as the ride, I don't feel that tin boats are that much rougher in ride. I own a 19' glass boat (no cuddy) that I currently run but have owned 3 other Starcrafts, 14, 18, and a 22'ers and ran them on the big waters of Lk Superior and Lk Michigan. When the surf churns up too much it really isn't comfortable in either the glass or tin. The Cheiftain that I currently am working on was not only for my desires but the wife also desired another cabin boat especially when we take the grandkids out on the big water and the opportunity to spend weekends on the boat instead of campgrounds.

Good luck with your quest!

 

[barato2]

Re: Glass owner here dreaming about a tin cuddy

yeah, after hearing about 2 kids, definitely go for a 22'. kids only grow one direction, and are lots more interested in going out in the boat if they can bring a friend or 2 along.

your wife will forget all the stuff she said about liking your current boat the first time she can hit the bano in privacy or put a cranky kid to bed for a nap.

 

[roscoe]

Re: Glass owner here dreaming about a tin cuddy

Here you go, a bit of a drive, but the price is right, and its the ultimate Chieftain in my opinion.

1974 25ft starcraft

I would have driven out this morning to get her myself, but my tow vehicle just can't handle it.

 

[laurentide]

Re: Glass owner here dreaming about a tin cuddy

I have a version of the model that you're looking at, and, while I've only had it in the water a dozen times so far, here's a few observations I've taken from my limited experience with the boat.

-It's very seaworthy. The hull can take big seas at most angles. It's also pretty dry in these conditions. I think the waterline chine/strake deflects a lot of water that ends up in the cockpit in other similarly sized boats.

-I have a smaller outboard (70hp), but it really doesn't need much power to get up and go. Mine is very fuel efficient for an 18' outboard.

-The cabin is nice and useable. Like barato said above, I'm 6' and can stretch out on the berths, and sit up comfortably (though the cabin is full of fishing gear all the time).

A couple of negatives in light of your situation:

-Not a lot of cockpit space, and very limited bow access. Like jas said, the splashwell is gigantic. The cabin takes up almost half of the useable space left over. If you plan on using it and maybe having some kids in it while underway, it's nice to have. However, just know that there's not a lot of moving around space with more than two people on the boat. For me, it's a great trolling vessel on a big lake, usually with one other friend on board. All our gear stays dry in the cabin, and it's there if the weather is really nasty.

-It's an old, spartan boat. Not a lot of built in comfort amenities. It's light and you have to be aware of weight distribution port to starboard. These are actually pluses for me, because it's almost exclusively a fishing vessel. Easy to clean, not much to maintain.



Looking at all of your criteria for a boat, I'd say to wait/look for a bigger, newer Islander for that kind of money. I see ones around here for less than that all the time, some with outboard brackets, some with splashwells. Most are I/O, however. I really like my 18' Chieftain, but I think there are better family boats.

Good luck. You can check out the rebuild thread in my signature if you want to see more of this boat than you ever wanted to see.

EDIT: You really should go buy that 24+' Chieftain, unless someone else already snagged it...it probably needs a bunch of work, though.

 

[jbcurt00]

Re: Glass owner here dreaming about a tin cuddy

As noted on the SC @CL/Ebay thread, that ^^^ looks like a good deal, if running, even if on an undersized trailer.

Hope to see someone we 'know' grab it.

I would have driven out this morning to get her myself, but my tow vehicle just can't handle it.

Hey Roscoe, if we double up, maybe together we can tow it......:watermelon:

My tow vehicle isn't up to a 22ft challenge, let alone a 25ft'r

 

[jasoutside]

Re: Glass owner here dreaming about a tin cuddy

For a little more cheddar...

starcraft Islander 22'

 

[ctswf]

Re: Glass owner here dreaming about a tin cuddy

Yup. The tall gunwhales is actually how my dad convinced my mom on the boat, because it would be safer for us kids.. Sadly my dad sold that old boat a while ago, and now has a '70 Offshore V-18.

Woo offshoreV!!!

That 25' with the hard top... Oh my:joyous:

 

[laurentide]

Re: Glass owner here dreaming about a tin cuddy

...and another example from the east coast:

Starcraft Islander 2001 21'

 

[jasoutside]

Re: Glass owner here dreaming about a tin cuddy

This one is pretty awesome...

StarCraft

 

[rheagler]

Re: Glass owner here dreaming about a tin cuddy

I can't really add much here anyone else hasn't said. Now having said that, I've been out every saturday in my 18' Chief since mid May, exclusively fishing. Solo fishing it is perfect. Add another adult, you are in each others way. Definitely go for at least a 22 footer with a family. Have fun!