Gun Control

LubeDude

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Oct 8, 2003
Messages
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The Failed Experiment <br />The Failed Experiment: Gun Control and Public Safety in Canada, Australia, England and Wales <br />Publication Date: November 2003 <br /><br />Author(s): <br />Gary Mauser, Professor<br />Email: \4 <br />The Fraser Institute, Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada<br /><br />Executive Summary: Widely televised firearm murders in many countries during the 20th Century have spurred politicians to introduce restrictive gun laws. The politicians then promise that the new restrictions will reduce criminal violence and "create a safer society." It is time to pause and ask if gun laws actually do reduce criminal violence. <br /><br />Gun laws must be demonstrated to cut violent crime or gun control is no more than a hollow promise. What makes gun control so compelling for many is the belief that violent crime is driven by the availability of guns and, more importantly, that criminal violence in general may be reduced by limiting access to firearms. <br /><br />In this study, the author examines crime trends in Commonwealth countries that have recently introduced firearm regulations: i.e., Great Britain, Australia, and Canada. The widely ignored key to evaluating firearm regulations is to examine trends in total violent crime, not just firearms crime. Since firearms are only a small fraction of criminal violence, the public would not be safer if the new law could reduce firearm violence but had no effect on total criminal violence. <br /><br />The United States provides a valuable point of comparison for assessing crime rates because the criminal justice system there differs so drastically from those in Europe and the Commonwealth. Not only are criminal penalties typically more severe in the United States, often much more severe, but also conviction and incarceration rates are usually much higher. Perhaps the most striking difference is that qualified citizens in the United States can carry concealed handguns for self-defence. During the past few decades, more than 25 states in the United States passed laws allowing responsible citizens to carry concealed handguns. In 2003, there are 35 states where citizens can get such a permit. <br /><br />The upshot is that violent crime rates, and homicide rates in particular, have been falling in the United States. The drop in the American crime rate is even more impressive when compared with the rest of the world. <br /><br />Major conclusions:<br /><br />-England & Wales: Yet in the 1990s alone, the homicide rate jumped 50 percent, going from 10 per million in 1990 to 15 per million in 2000. While not yet as high as the US, in 2002 gun crime in England and Wales increased by 35 percent. This is the fourth consecutive year that gun crime has increased. Police statistics show that violent crime in general has increased since the late 1980s and since 1996 has been more serious than in the United States.<br /><br />-Australia: the total homicide rate, after having remained basically -flat from 1995 to 2001, has now begun climbing again. While violent crime is decreasing in the United States, it is increasing in Australia. Over the past six years, the overall rate of violent crime in Australia has been on the rise, for example, armed robberies have jumped 166 percent nationwide. The confiscation and destruction of legally owned firearms has cost Australian taxpayers at least $500 million. The cost of the police services bureaucracy, including the costly infrastructure of the gun registration system, has increased by $200 million since 1997.<br /><br />-Canada: Over the past decade, the rate of violent crime in Canada has increased while in the United States the violent crime rate has plummeted. The homicide rate is dropping faster in the US than in Canada. The Canadian experiment with firearm registration is becoming a farce says Mauser. The effort to register all firearms, which was originally claimed to cost only $2 million, has now been estimated by the Auditor General to top $1 billion. The final costs are unknown but, if the costs of enforcement are included, the total could easily reach $3 billion.<br /><br />I love the smell of gunpowder in the morning: it smells like... [sniff] freedom.<br /><br />That, and lower violent crime rates. <br /><br />Read the whole report here: http://www.fraserinstitute.ca/admin...dExperiment.pdf <br /><br />LubeDude
 

SoulWinner

Commander
Joined
Apr 16, 2002
Messages
2,423
Re: Gun Control

Great post!!! Thanks for posting this. I will definately forward it around.
 

LubeDude

Admiral
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Oct 8, 2003
Messages
6,945
Re: Gun Control

Why? "NON BOATING", TOPICS OF INTREST!<br /><br />LubeDude
 

KennyKenCan

Commander
Joined
Aug 26, 2002
Messages
2,501
Re: Gun Control

Gun Control...<br /><br /> Illegal according the the Constitution of the United States of America.<br /><br />Don't need to say anymore.
 

JB

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
45,907
Re: Gun Control

Political posts belong in Dockside Chat.
 

NOSLEEP

Commander
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
2,442
Re: Gun Control

Illegal gun control ...<br />Coming to a State near you.
 

KeltonKrew

Lieutenant
Joined
Jul 31, 2002
Messages
1,325
Re: Gun Control

prying it from my dead cold hands!<br /><br />I agree, gun control is hitting what you aim at!
 

Boomyal

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Aug 16, 2003
Messages
12,072
Re: Gun Control

Hey LubeDude! You stealin my thunder? ;) <br />Great C & P.
 

SpinnerBait_Nut

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Aug 25, 2002
Messages
17,651
Re: Gun Control

I don't hunt anymore but still have a few guns, although they are locked away for safe keeping.<br /><br />All I can say is that they can't prove you own any if they can't prove you have any. :D
 

JasonJ

Rear Admiral
Joined
Aug 20, 2001
Messages
4,163
Re: Gun Control

I never quite know how to feel about the whole gun thing, but if some dirt bag decides he needs to come into my house in the middle of the night, he gets to be at the recieving end of my Glock induced wrath.....well, I guess I do know how to feel about the whole gun thing. I will feel recoil.... :D
 

Toad2001

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 22, 2003
Messages
403
Re: Gun Control

I remember hearing recent stats that firearms fatalities in the US with a population of about 290MM is 11500/year, and in Canada its about 149/year with a population with 32 Million.<br /><br />If the US had Canada's firearms fatality rate, it would be a factor of .ooooo47%, or 1363/year - less than an eigth of what it is.<br /><br />Personally I think a society where everyone has guns can't possibly be as safe as one where nobody has guns. The constitution reads "being necessary to the security of a free state", which doesn't seem to relate much to personal security (individual), ie: a concealed weapon. <br /><br />Nothing will change, you can have your AK-47's. I just don't understand why you need them.<br /><br />Gun ownership by responsible people is just fine, but theres no way to keep them from getting into the hands of organized crime, gangs, youths, sometimes even children. Then theres the snipers and lunatics that go on shooting sprees every so often...<br /><br />Lovely.
 

lundboat

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Dec 1, 2002
Messages
76
Re: Gun Control

Well... this is boring. A political discussion where everyone agrees. To pick things up a bit, I'll play devils advocate here.<br /><br />First, just to make it clear what side of the fence I'm on. I own guns, and I'd be mighty upset if someone told me I couldn't keep them. However, my guns are shotguns and rifles. I hunt birds, deer, elk and anyone who breaks into my home, and I grew up respectful of the weopon I carried. <br /><br />My wife is from England. At first, my having a gun in the house made her very uneasy, but she's come around nicely. :) <br />Her cousin is a cop in England, my shotgun was the first gun he'd ever seen in person (outside of a museum). I thought that was pretty interesting, that a cop can go his entire life and never even touch a gun. Sure is a different world over there.<br /><br />Now, although I firmly stand on the side of the fence with the 2nd Ammendment, I can't help but wonder what the point is behind fully automatic assault rifles. I've fired them before, entertainting I suppose for the first few moments, but I get pleasure from my weopons by tuning in the skill of actually hitting my target, not just increasing the lead content of the ground 200 feet in front of me, then walking up like an idiot to see if I hit anything (I didn't). But I would have if I had slowed down and taken one shot from the ol' .3006, instead of 75 random shots from the auto. <br /><br />So what's the point? Is the point that we should be able to own them just because we don't want it taken away? Are we protecting these guns because we fear losing our hunting and recreation firearms? For me, that is not good enough, I don't want to make decisions based on a fear someone else has told me I need to have.<br /><br />On my last visit to England I got to shoot guns, a very vast array of guns at that. I went to a gun range. There I paid someone the fraction that it would have cost for me to actually purchase the gun and the ammo and I got to unload at many targets, near and far. It was a lot of fun. Good way for a redneck like myself to get his gun fix. There they had everything you could imagine, autos, pistols, shotguns, they had it all. My point here is that it is possible to get your gun fix without having them in your home.<br /><br />As I understand it, the NRA and gun lobby are fighting for the auto assault rifle, not because they really want to keep the gun on the market, but because they fear that if we allow the banning of one type of firearm, then we leave ourselves exposed to having all the others getting banned as well. Again, I don't buy this arguement, for starters it is a way overused arguemnt, a knee jerk reaction to get gun owners like you and me upset or worse... scared. I make it a point to question the intentions of anyone who uses scare tactics... its a sign of weakness and desperation. Personally, I would like to think that we can have more faith in the system than that. I don't have any fear that someone will try to take my shotgun away from me. I just don't believe that it would ever get to that. Now, I understand that many of you will call this line of thinking naive, and respond with evidence throughout history about how cracking the door on an issue will ultimately end in the door being blasted wide open, but I also see evidence in history that after all the smoke has cleared, and after everyone is done yelling and arguing, that at the end there will be a reasonable solution for all. <br /><br />That's my $0.02. I'm a gun owner, but I am highly sceptical of the intentions of the gun lobby. Any single group with that kind of financial backing is getting their return on investment. I'd rather see decisions regarding the laws we live by be guided by social and moral values and freedoms, not the deepest wallet.
 

Homerr

Commander
Joined
Mar 4, 2002
Messages
2,294
Re: Gun Control

This topic has been brought up a number of times on this forum, and I must say I'm glad to see I have many brethren that supports the right to bear arms.<br /><br />I never realized how many guns there were until one late night several years ago when I was celebrating New Years at my home.<br />When the clock hit 12, there we so many guns going off from across my region that it sounded like a war zone! <br />And some of them weren't small guns mind you!...I know what .50 and 60 cal's sound like 'up close and personal'.<br />Many small arms as well as the bigger boys.<br /><br />It was that night I realized how safe American gun owners must feel!<br /><br />And as I have said in prior gun topics:<br />If ANYONE can convince me a GUN is dangerous, I'll give all I have to you to do with as you wish.<br />Does a gun have a mind of it's own? Does it randomly get up off a table, or jump out of your locked gun cabinet and shoot someone?<br />I didn't think so.... :) <br /><br />I doubt the anti-gunner's will ever understand that it's the criminal mind, the human finger, that makes a gun dangerous...<br /><br />Lunboat:<br /><br />You make an interesting point.<br />Assault rifles, as you put it...Don't have much of a use, but they are fun. I have several myself.<br />It may be an old argument, but I do believe that if we give in and let them take even one gun away, they will eventually take them all. <br />The government knows they can't take them all at once, so they do it little by little - chipping away. <br />They do it by brainwashing our kids that guns are so dangerous, that they want nothing to do with them. I have already seen evidence of this in my children's schools.<br /><br />No, I doubt they will ever take all of our guns away. I think we'd see a civil war if that happened.<br /><br />H.
 

Kenneth Brown

Captain
Joined
Feb 3, 2003
Messages
3,481
Re: Gun Control

I beleive you are definetly playing the devil there Lundboat. I disagree 100%. Those who would trade freedom for protection deserve neither. <br /><br />Toads turn- Suppose you take every gun from every law abiding citizen. What would you have left? To put it into your exact words "Gun ownership by responsible people is just fine, but theres no way to keep them from getting into the hands of organized crime, gangs, youths, sometimes even children." So the law abiders can't have guns even though the crooks will? Man you got life bent. I think theres about 7-8 of us here who make our living as a cop or corrections officer, I do both. I would gladly have Joe Q. Citizen have a gun because Bubba D. Thug knows Joe has one too, and that makes him more likely NOT to break into Joe's home. <br /><br />Before people judge others walk a mile in their shoes, that way you are a mile away and you have their shoes.
 

Homerr

Commander
Joined
Mar 4, 2002
Messages
2,294
Re: Gun Control

There ya go Ken...<br /><br />Let's here the opinions of actual law enforcement.<br />It's a good bet most of them think like you do.<br />If you arm the citizen, there's a less chance of them being victimized.<br /><br />But watch out for those elusive assault rifles...they are known to visit your local fast food joint and spray the area. :eek: :) LOL<br /><br />You ever notice how the media is so quick to point out the 'assault rifle' and a 'high capacity' magazine if it was involved in a crime? <br />Yea, there's a real prize winner... Let's limit the capacity of the magazine. That only gives the scumbag 10 times to shoot you before he loads up another 10 round magazine.<br />I don't know about you, but one bullet in my backside would be enough to ruin my day!<br /><br /> :) <br /><br />I'm still waiting for legislation to pass a law that requires you to register all potatoes that you use in a potato gun.<br />Then maybe water, or rocks. They have both killed plenty of people too.<br /><br />H.
 

Toad2001

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 22, 2003
Messages
403
Re: Gun Control

Hi Kenneth,<br /><br />I didn't say the law abider's couldn't have guns. For recreation for example.<br /><br />There should be better gun control. Just look at the fatality figues I quoted above. Somethings seriously wrong! This post was touting a drop in the US gun murder rate. Well look at the bench mark you have to work with. You've got nowhere to go but down.<br /><br />Like Dennis Miller said "we should make guns harder to get than an eight o'clock table at Morton's on Monday night".<br /><br />I guess thats along the lines I'm thinking...<br /><br />Peace.
 

Boomyal

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Aug 16, 2003
Messages
12,072
Re: Gun Control

Toad, you are a selective reader and you probably have not read the Constitution in its entirety. The word 'people' is used many times in the Constitution. In every other case 'people' means the individual. The 2nd amendment simply has two parts two it.
 
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