Hot alarm. Can you figure this one out?

steviecops

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Oct 3, 2003
Messages
585
Hi<br />Can anyone figure this one out?, because I can't :confused: <br /><br />I fitted a new thermostat to my 1980 55 Johnson last week, and took my boat out today for the first time since fitting the new stat.<br /><br />From cold, the engine started and warmed up pretty quickly. I watched the exhaust relief ports and if I'm right, when the stat opened, water spray started coming out of the relief ports. I felt the head and could keep my fingers on there for no more than 2 seconds, and the engine was idling better than it has since I've had it, so all seemed well.<br /><br />I motored out to my fishing mark which took about 20 minutes. No problems. Shut engine down and fished for 1 hour. Re-started engine, no problems, then motored to another fishing mark for about 15 minutes at WOT. <br /><br />When I got there, I slowed to idle speed to scan the sea bed with fishfinder and after about 2 minutes, the hot alarm buzzer went off :eek: <br /><br />I shut the engine down straight away and dropped the anchor. I checked the buzzer every few minutes and after about 5 minutes I could turn the key without the buzzer sounding. Fished for another hour, then went to move to a different mark. Started engine and let it idle while I retrieved anchor, when I went to move off the buzzer sounded again :mad: <br /><br />I started my auxillary engine and started to make my way back to the dock. After about 10 minutes, I started the main engine again, no buzzer sounded and I was able to run all the way back to the dock without the buzzer sounding again :confused: <br /><br />Does anyone have any idea why the buzzer is sounding sometimes, and not others? Will running at WOT, then letting the engine idle in gear cause the engine to overheat? Why did the buzzer go off the second time when the engine had only been running for a few minutes?<br /><br />Also, after the buzzer sounded the first time, I took the cover off to have a look. I could only keep my fingers on the head for one second now without getting burnt, and the top of the flywheel felt hot too, although I could keep my hand on it without getting burnt, just. <br /><br />Should the top of the flywheel get hot at normal running temp?<br /><br />Sorry for all the questions, but I'm on the verge of taking the ^*~#@!! thermostat out. I never had these problems when my engine ran cold. I think I'd rather put up with the rough idle than risk ruining my engine.<br /><br />Any help would be much appreciated.<br />Thanks<br />Steve
 

Dhadley

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Feb 4, 2001
Messages
16,978
Re: Hot alarm. Can you figure this one out?

The flywheel should get very warm. It has to do with passing over the magnets, heat rise etc.<br /><br />What you describe may be a sign of a water pump problem. Doesnt pump enough at idle but revved up it does.<br /><br />On the other hand it could be the new T-stat sticking, not allowing the water to circulate and heating up. You rev up the motor and it pumps enough water to move the pressure relief valves and let water flow.<br /><br />If you havent done a pump in a while, this may be a good time. Maybe change the head gasket too. I'd check the T-stat also.<br /><br />Good luck!
 

steviecops

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Oct 3, 2003
Messages
585
Re: Hot alarm. Can you figure this one out?

Thanks Dhadley<br /><br />I changed impeller about 6-8 weeks ago, and today was the first time the boat has been out since. When I started the engine at the dock in the morning, it was fine whilst idling. Also, when the hot buzzer sounded the second time, I gave the engine some revs briefly before shutting down, to see if it would stop the buzzer sounding, and it didn't.<br /><br />I got the feeling that it may be the new thermostat sticking because of the intermittent sounding of the hot buzzer. First time it was when I slowed right down after the engine had been running at WOT, second time a few minutes after engine had first started after sitting for an hour.<br /><br />I have read on here about people venting their stats to prevent them sticking. Would doing that solve my problem?<br /><br />Also, I can't see any signs of leaks around the cylinder head, and last time I checked my compression it was good in both cylinders. How could changing the head gasket help?<br /><br />Thanks again<br />Would appreciate any further advice.<br />Steve
 

Dhadley

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Feb 4, 2001
Messages
16,978
Re: Hot alarm. Can you figure this one out?

First things first. The impeller is new. Lets get the rest of the parts and change the complete thing. We dont want a liner or plate to be causing the problem.<br /><br />I wouldnt recommend drilling holes in the T-stat. It can be done but it should work properly. Test it as described in your manual in water. What brand is it?<br /><br />Its a good idea to change head gaskets every so often. If it starts to blow by it could be allowing hot combustion into the cooling system.<br /><br />I'd almost bet on the T-stat but I'd do the pump kit anyway.
 

steviecops

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Oct 3, 2003
Messages
585
Re: Hot alarm. Can you figure this one out?

Thanks again Dhadley<br /><br />The thermostat is an OMC.<br /><br />When I changed the impeller I checked all the other parts. The housing, liner, etc, were all good, however, the plate had a very, very slight groove worn in it around the drive shaft hole, where the hub of the impeller spins. I thought that this would be alright as the displacement pumping at slow speeds takes place around the edge of the cup, and the centrifugal pumping at higher speed still takes place away from the centre of the plate. I also fitted a new housing bottom seal.<br /><br />I will remove and test the thermostat as you suggest. I would imagine that it is sticking, but only sometimes though, as it the hot buzzer sounding wasn't consistent with anything. Is it common for a new stat to stick?<br /><br />Thanks<br />Steve
 

reeldutch

Lieutenant
Joined
Feb 2, 2004
Messages
1,340
Re: Hot alarm. Can you figure this one out?

may be it is your waterflowrestrictor?<br />or something blocking pasages?<br /><br />good luck reeldutch
 

steviecops

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Oct 3, 2003
Messages
585
Re: Hot alarm. Can you figure this one out?

I don't think that any passages are blocked because the engine ran fine before I fitted the new stat. Only thing was, it ran cool because the old stat was defective and caused a rough idle.<br /><br />Thanks<br />Steve
 

ob

Admiral
Joined
Aug 16, 2002
Messages
6,992
Re: Hot alarm. Can you figure this one out?

This is all assumning that the engine is reaching in excess of 163 degrees.If you are able,try to get yourself a thermo melt stik of 163 and mark several areas of the heads and block to confirm an overheat.A heat measuring gun will work too.If engine reaches or exceeds this temp, the melt stik marks will liquify.In the future ,its best to install a complete waterpump kit, as any scoring of the impeller cup has a measurable impact on the efficiency of the waterpump.Particularly at slow speeds.
 

steviecops

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Oct 3, 2003
Messages
585
Re: Hot alarm. Can you figure this one out?

Thanks<br />I'll get the melt stick and give it a try, although I did test the heat sensor switch while I had the head cover off to change the thermostat. Testing it as in the manual, it did seem to be closing within the range given.<br /><br />Having done a search on here, I gather that the pressure relief valve could cause problems if it is binding in the grommet. Mine did seem a bit of a snug fit, would that affect the cooling system?<br /><br />I'll have the head cover off again today to test the thermostat. Anything else I might do in there while it's off that might make a difference?<br /><br />Thanks<br />Steve
 

steviecops

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Oct 3, 2003
Messages
585
Re: Hot alarm. Can you figure this one out?

I tested the thermostat today and it began to open around 150 degrees, and would be fully open at around 160 degrees. Does this sound about right? Believe it or not, I have a Clymer manual and an OEM factory manual, and neither of them give a temperature that the stats should open!<br /><br />The pressure relief valve was binding in the grommet. I would have thought that it should only be controlled by the pressure of the spring, is that correct? Should I file the edges of the valve so that it doesn't bind?<br /><br />Thanks<br />Steve
 

steviecops

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Oct 3, 2003
Messages
585
Re: Hot alarm. Can you figure this one out?

Any ideas about the temps and relief valve?<br /><br />Thanks<br />Steve
 

mutron77

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jan 19, 2004
Messages
114
Re: Hot alarm. Can you figure this one out?

They should't bind. I would get a kit and install new valves and gromets. Are they melted at all?<br />Perhaps the fact that you were running without a stat helped to mask an existing cooling problem.<br />Did you take the stat out or did the previous owner?<br />I don't know if yours take the same stat as my 90 horse but the tmp on mine lists as 143 degrees. The mechanics call them 145's <br />H90
 

steviecops

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Oct 3, 2003
Messages
585
Re: Hot alarm. Can you figure this one out?

Hi Horse 90<br /><br />No, the pressure relief valve isn't melted at all. I read on here somewhere that the grommet shrinks with age?, and that if the fit is too tight you get 4 grooves in it where the valve has been sitting. That describes what I have.<br /><br />No one had removed the old stat, it was still in there but the small disc was missing from the end, so water was flowing through it all the time. <br /><br />I actually found the operating temp of the stat in my manual after all, and it says it should open at about 145 degrees. I'm borrowing a proper heat sensor tomorrow so I can test it accurately. I tested it with a meat cooking thermometer last time!, which was calibrated in 10's and therefore not easy to get an accurate reading.<br /><br />I don't think I had an existing overheating problem because the buzzer only went off two times the other day. Once after slowing down after 15 minutes at WOT, and once at idle a few minutes after starting up. After that, I ran about 6 miles back to the ramp without the buzzer sounding. <br /><br />BTW, when I got the boat back on the trailer, I ran the engine on the muffs to flush it through. I ran it for a few minutes feeling the head until I felt it was too hot. I shut the engine down when I could only touch the head for a second without having to pull my fingers off, yet the stat hadn't opened, (no water through exhaust relief ports), and the buzzer didn't sound.<br /><br />I know I should replace everything with new, but I'm coming to the USA for a holiday in September, and plan to buy lots of parts while I'm there. They cost a fortune over here and I want to actually use my boat this summer instead of spending all my spare time working on it :rolleyes: <br /><br />Sorry for the long posts and many questions, but I'm new to this and want to understand my engine and how it works.<br /><br />Thanks<br />Steve
 

steviecops

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Oct 3, 2003
Messages
585
Re: Hot alarm. Can you figure this one out?

Hi<br />Just to let you know what happened.<br /><br />I bought a new pressure relief valve and grommet and fitted it. I can now see that the old one was far too tight a fit and probably wasn't working at all. I also drilled two tiny holes in the thermostat to vent it. O.K, so you shouldn't have to do that, but it can't do any harm, and may just save my engine.<br /><br />Anyway, I ran the engine today for about 30-40 minutes at idle and fast idle. I monitored the temperature of the head with a heat sensor and the temperature never went above 63 degrees C, which is 145 degrees F. The buzzer never sounded either. At this temperature, I could still only touch the head for about a second before having to pull my fingers off.<br /><br />So I'm hoping that this will do me for the summer now. My list of jobs for the autumn now includes a new water pump kit, new head gasket and new exhaust cover gaskets, just to make sure.<br /><br />Thanks again for all your help.<br />Steve
 

Solittle

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Apr 28, 2002
Messages
7,518
Re: Hot alarm. Can you figure this one out?

Steve - Thanks for the after action feedback. I wish more guys would do this.
 

mutron77

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jan 19, 2004
Messages
114
Re: Hot alarm. Can you figure this one out?

That's good to hear. Enjoy a trouble free summer! I'm headed to the lake Monday with my newly redecked chriscraft and EV 90 V4, New stats, water pump, carbs rebuilt, lubed tuned and ready to go...<br /><br />H90
 
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