How do I start a 1979 Johnson Stinger with no wiring connected?

[ctdude]

Hi,

I have recently started an overhaul of my 1979 Stinger, the starter motor works, checked compression today (108, 112, 120 psi), have given it a good clean up and now want to put fuel up to it and see if it starts and runs (hasn't been started for a few years). Currently I don't have any wiring connected (it's all corroded and I've pulled it all out, but have bought some new starter cable to test the starter motor) but would like to know how to start it (the starter motor runs when hooked directly to a battery).

Do I need to have any other electrical circuit activated? Is there any "kill switch" I need to make? Will it just turn over and run if the starter motor turns it (direct battery feed) and the fuel system is good? Can i just use choke and throttle manually? Also, if it is running without electrical control, how do i turn it off? Just pull the fuel hose?

This is my final test to confirm it's viability before I spend a lot of money rewiring the whole boat, buying relays, cabling, controls etc.

Thanks for any advice, I'm really excited about my progress so far. It was a real mess.

 

[gm280]

Because you didn't specify the actual model number of your engine, I 'am assuming it is a 70EL79R 70HP engine (being a three cylinder setup from your compression numbers). That being said, it does have a power pack and not being familiar with that ignition setup, again I'm assuming it takes 12 volts to operate. So that means you at least have to supply the 12 volts for the ignition to start it even with jumping the starter. If that is wrong, somebody please say so. To shut it off, you can either choke it out or remove the 12 volts to the ignition power pack. Other then that, IDK :noidea:

 

[Chinewalker]

NO!!! You do not need 12V for the ignition system. It will fire quite well with no battery present. I would hook up battery cables, though, to prevent damage to the charging system. Connect a negative cable to the block, and positive to the IN side of the solenoid. Then make a small jumper wire to jump the starter solenoid. Alligator clips on the ends should suffice. Jump from the IN side of the solenoid to the small non-grounded post on the solenoid.

 

[F_R]

What chinewalker said. Do NOT apply 12V to the powerpack. To do so can destroy it. The motor generates its own electricity to operate the ignition system. Similar to, but not like, a lawn mower or chainsaw. But a connected battery is required to prevent damage to the alternator system.

 

[ctdude]

Sorry gm280, its a 75hp motor, I will have to find the model/serial number. Cheers.

Chinewalker and F_R, thanks for the advice. So, I have my 2B&S wire hooked up to chassis (neg) and input side of starter (pos), then I use a light guage wire (pos) to engage the starter solenoid to crank the engine. Where should the alligator clip go to (the altenator?) to protect the electrical system? Or is the connection to block and input of solenoid enough "safety" and I just use alligator clip to starter solenoid input to crank engine?

I will be investing in a manual for this motor, but I will also be hoping to try and start this motor tonight. If you or anyone else has time, please try and clarify to me what/where I need to put the positive wire for the altenator. I will have hard wire 2B&S to block and input of starter, and will be using small gauge to engage starter solenoid. Is this enough?

Thanks muchly!

 

[F_R]

If you have the battery cables connected to ground and the starter solenoid, the alternator is automatically connected.

 

[ctdude]

No Title

OK,
today i put in new fuel lines and fuel bulb, connected the battery up properly to starter motor (as advised by the good people on here) and used hook-up wire to run the starter motor via solenoid, but the motor did not fire. It didn't even sound like firing. Not a stutter. The starter is strong, and I know fuel is getting up to the pump in the motor, but nothing else.

I tried using the actual throttle and choke on the motor to get something to happen, but nothing. I wasn't expecting it to run, but I was hoping it would sound like it was trying to start.

I have two conclusions: 1, the ignition system/coils/plugs aren't working, or 2. I'm getting no fuel to cylinders.

So I opened up the fuel pump on motor (see picture) and fuel came out under pressure, so i am thinking i might have a blockage somewhere. I had no smell of fuel coming from the engine, and considering I was pumping away on the throttle rod, I thought even if I flooded it, it should smell of fuel, but nothing. So I am going to replace all fuel lines from pump on motor to wherever they go. Could there be a blockage in the carbys or something?

Is testing for a spark from plugs easy? From what i understand from this forum, I remove one plug at a time, short it to chassis and crank the engine and look for a spark. Is this right?

 

[Chinewalker]

Looking at the photos of your carb linkage in your other post, I see black gaskets on the carbs - a sure sign they are likely all original and have never been rebuilt. New kits are ethanol resistant. It is VERY likely your carbs are gummed up, dirty, or even just have sticky float valves, which would explain your pressurized situation when you pulled the pump apart. Pull the carbs, clean them up, and reassemble with new style carb kits.

Also a good idea to check for spark, and yes you can do so by grounding plugs against the block. Better to use a spark tester if you have one, but for the moment, the block method will work. Make sure all gas from the fuel pump mess has been cleaned up FIRST!

Your compression numbers from your other post sound okay.

 

[F_R]

Personally, I wouldn't do a thing until some troubleshooting has been done. Does it have spark? It should throw a 7/16" spark on a tester. Sure, it could have dirty carburetors, but "fixing" them won't cure some other problem and may introduce a new one. You can remove the drain plugs from the bottom of the carburetor bowls to look for gum. If they are shiny clean. leave them alone for right now.

 

[ctdude]

Ok, thanks guys, I will do the spark test today after work as it sounds simple and important, but I am going to go for a carb clean after that as it sounds like that is a likely cause of the pressurised fuel and lack of fuel smell when cranking.
Would either of you be able to provide a link to a carb cleaning guide? I will search the forum for threads about this as well.
I really do appreciate your time to answer and helpful advice. Thanks a lot guys.

 

[ctdude]

Ok, found some threads on here. Give me a couple of days to work through all this. I will do spark test tonight but will have to order carb kits by the sound of it, so if that is next step it will take a few days just to get kits.
Thanks again.

 

[F_R]

Did you pull the drain plugs and look as I suggested?

 

[ctdude]

Did you pull the drain plugs and look as I suggested?

Not yet mate, i get about 30minutes of daylight when i finish work (middle of winter here in Aus) so i did a spark test about 20 minutes ago. Will get into fuel on the weekend when i have plenty of time and light.

OK, so as a novice i bought i "spark tester" (4 different auto shops didnt have an inline spark plug tester) which basically goes between the lead and earth and a bulb lights up when voltage goes across it. I first tried shorting the spark plug to the block and seeing if they sparked, but nothing from any of them. So I then removed the plugs and tried my "spark tester". When I cranked the motor it would light once, and that was it. Same result on all three ignition wires. One light when first cranked and then nothing.

Any ideas on what this might represent? Should it keep lighting every revolution? Is one light a good sign that at least there is some charge getting through, or is this just some back emf through the block when starter motor first kicks in?

I'll look at fuel system on the weekend.

 

[ctdude]

Aaarggh,, geez, I just thought of something! All of my wiring has been pulled out, so wouldn't that mean that my engine would still be in the electrically "off/stop" position? So the coils would/should be shorting to the block, therefore no spark?

Thoughts, opinions, ideas! This would make sense as to why I'm getting no spark, and probably well worth looking into before removing the flywheel etc.

Any ideas on how to disable/bypass the "kill" switch on this motor?

Thanks.

 

[ctdude]

OK, been searching around the forum, it looks like the black wire with yellow stripe might be the culprit!

So, if I disconnect this wire, will that remove the earth on the coils? I'm guessing this must stay in the closed/earth state until you turn the key to "start" position and it energises a solenoid or switch or something to allow power to get back to the ignition system.

Does this sound right or am I leading myself down the garden path?

 

[racerone]

You need to understand that the ignition system for spark to the plugs does not use 12 volts.-----Rest on this untill you have a manual to explain all this to you.--The black /yellow wire must not be earthed in order to get spark.

 

[Chinewalker]

It is an open circuit while in use. Closing the circuit grounds the power pack out, killing the ignition and shutting off the motor.

 

[F_R]

I don't know what kind of spark tester you bought. But as I said earlier, it should spark a 7/16" gap with ease. You don't have to have any fancy tools to test this. Stick a #2 phillips screwdriver (dry plastic handle) in the boot and hold the shank 7/16" (more or less) away from a pointy object like a head bolt head while cranking the starter. It should arc a virtual lightning bolt across that gap on every revolution. It should also knock your shorts off if you let it arc to you.

 

[ctdude]

Ok, I've taken in all that information, but I am not getting any spark.

Racerone, I'm hearing what you are saying and I took that advice you gave me from the other thread, but when the motor is running normally and the key is turned to "off" my understanding is that a solenoid/circuit takes the ignition power to earth, taking away the spark. I am wondering what "re-opens" this circuit after the motor has stopped.

 

[ctdude]

It is an open circuit while in use. Closing the circuit grounds the power pack out, killing the ignition and shutting off the motor.

What opens the circuit? In my thinking if normal cranking opens that circuit it must use the power applied to starter motor solenoid to open it.

I'm going to remove that black/yellow stripe wire tonight and try it again anyway. Then I will know if I have to start working back through the electrical system. If I am getting no spark anywhere should I start at power head? Seems like the next best thing to test.
I will also be cleaning the fuel system over the weekend.
Thanks everyone for you helpful advice, time, patience and interest. I am definitely listening to everything you are all saying but I still need to try a few things for myself as part of my own learning curve.
Thanks again.