How does this work?

[floatingwoody2006]

1954 evinrude 6 horse fleetwin. I have finally gotten spark from both cyls..Now when putting the flywheel back on i notice the piece the 4 screws go down into rotates up, down or around. This may be by design, and im thinking it is, but it just doesn't feel right to have it moving after i re-install the head on top of the whole mess.. Seems sloppy. Here is a picture of what im talking about.. Is this piece supposed to move around like that?

 

[wbeaton]

Re: How does this work?

Your motor is a 7.5hp.

Your armature plate attaches to that ring. It needs to move in order to advance the spark. Once you install the armature it will no longer be "loose".

 

[F_R]

Re: How does this work?

Just make sure the ring in question is right side up. Flat side up, tapered side down.

 

[floatingwoody2006]

Re: How does this work?

The ring is in correctly, as it has never been removed. When the flywheel screws down into it thru the 4 boly holes, it snugs down, but the whole thing still moves a bit. Just makes me nervous having the flywheel moving under that head when it is spinning. I have never taken one apart before, but somehow it just didn't feel right. When it is assembled, it can be pulled and produces spark though..Maybe it's just me being nervous.
While re-assembling it, i put the parts in just as they fit correctly.. Is there some sort of timing adjustment to make here also?.. Thanks.. OH.. And how do you know this is a 7.5 ? think i posted #'s here a while ago and it was identified as a 6.. 7.5 would be a nice surprise.. Thanks
EDIT.. Does that ring that moves require grease of any sort?

 

[F_R]

Re: How does this work?

It is a 7.5
The armature plate mounting parts should be lubricated very sparingly with just a thin smear of grease. Any excess just gets thrown out and contaminates the points.

I don't understand what you are saying about the spinning worries. The armature plate turns back and forth as you advance and or retard the throttle. It should be free to rotate, but should not be excessivly loose or flopping around.

There is no timing to set other than adjusting the points to .020"

 

[floatingwoody2006]

Re: How does this work?

[My concern was after i installed the head back over the flywheel, and pulled the cord to check for spark, it just seemed to me that the flywheel having the ability to move sligtly back and forth would possibly get caught on the fast spinning head around it. so...the only thing holding the flywheel from spinning at the same time as the head is just the Arm that connects it to the throttle assembly, and the tapered piece underneath that controls overthrottling? This is my first rebuild, and Like i said, it's probably my paranoia.. the flywheel itself only has 4 screws to mount it to that Armature plate, and when all 4 screws are in, like you said it advances and retards the throttle. It's all new to me, and i appreciate you guys helping me with basic understanding of how these things work.

Although i am still curious what identifies it as a 7.5.. Did they not make a 6?

 

[floatingwoody2006]

Re: How does this work?

[My concern was after i installed the head back over the flywheel, and pulled the cord to check for spark, it just seemed to me that the flywheel having the ability to move sligtly back and forth would possibly get caught on the fast spinning head around it. so...the only thing holding the flywheel from spinning at the same time as the head is just the Arm that connects it to the throttle assembly, and the tapered piece underneath that controls overthrottling? This is my first rebuild, and Like i said, it's probably my paranoia.. the flywheel itself only has 4 screws to mount it to that Armature plate, and when all 4 screws are in, like you said it advances and retards the throttle. It's all new to me, and i appreciate you guys helping me with basic understanding of how these things work.

Although i am still curious what identifies it as a 7.5.. Did they not make a 6?

Edit.. And if anyone knows where i might find the glass bowl for the carb in this thing.. I would really appreciate it... re-reading this post makes me realize how dumb i actually sound. It makes sense to me more now that im paying more attention.

 

[Chinewalker]

Re: How does this work?

Okay, let's get your terminology straight here as I was confused a bit trying to follow. The "flywheel" is the heavy round donut with the magnets (what you referred to as a "head"). The "armature plate" or "mag plate" is the disc with coils, points and condensers mounted to it (what you referred to as the "flywheel").

That said, there should be a little bit of movement possible to the armature plate, but not much. It should be able to rotate freely and smoothly back and forth, but excessive wobble or upward movement could cause what you feared with the coils hitting the flywheel. Movement of the plate, independent of intential movement when advancing the timing via the throttle, can cause changes to the point gap as the plate wobbles around. I believe Joe Reeves offered up a fix for this that involved a sharp punch to add friction to the center bushing. A search of the iboats archive may turn it up...
The first two digits of your motor's model number is 75 - probably a model 7514 or 7515, making it a 1954 model year, 7.5hp.

- Scott

 

[Silvertip]

Re: How does this work?

You are confusing us with your terminology. There is no head (except for a cylinder head). The flywheel attaches to the crankshaft with the nut and rotates with the crankshaft. The stator I think is what you are mean when you say "head" The flywheel spins around the stator. The stator must rotate freely under the flywheel to advance the timing as the throttle is opened.

 

[floatingwoody2006]

Re: How does this work?

Hah.. told you i sounded dumb..Got it. Seems that there may be a bit too much play with the armature plate (or stator)as there is a slight bit of upward movement in it. I will try to find joe reeve's solution to this issue. Thanks again guys.
Watch for my next post titled : How to adjust the fluefer rod under the Rigamarole..

 

[floatingwoody2006]

Re: How does this work?

Ok.. i re-visited this tonight and my issue seems clear cut.. Hopefully i can find a solution. It seems that there is something on the armature plate is hitting on the inside of the flywheel when i rotate it by hand. The coils are lined up as far back on their screws as they can go,but it seems they may be tapping the flywheel ever so slightly when turning it by hand. they seem to be lining up with the guides just fine. SO.. i believe that the Stator has a bit too much play, or the flywheel needs to be machined a bit on the inside. Should i sand the flywheel over the magnets on the inside a bit to allow clearance, or am i possibly beating a dead horse here... Is my terminology any better this time?

 

[Xcusme]

Re: How does this work?

Well, i think you mean the armature plate has too much play, but lets check something first. The coils should be mounted in such a way that the coils are aligned with their mounting bosses.....the coil and the mounting boss should be flush....here's a pic.. just align surface A and B.

BTW, did you find the post by J. Reeves addressing a fix for a wobbly armature plate??

 

[floatingwoody2006]

Re: How does this work?

yes.. the coil and mounting boss are flush.. or even a bit behind. But it still seems to be tapping a bit. If it's not coils, what else could be hitting in there?.. no.. i wasn't able to locate the wobbly armature plate post.. But i will continue to look.

 

[Xcusme]

Re: How does this work?

If either coil is rubbing on the inside surface of the flywheel, you can usually see a witness mark on the coils' center laminations (the square bit in the center of the coil. If you remove the flywheel, grab the edge of the armature plate and lift slightly, is there a lot of up and down play (vertical movement)?
Are the condenser wires sticking up?? Is the motor in Neutral? Are you sure the sound is coming from under the flywheel and not from the drive shaft?

 

[floatingwoody2006]

Re: How does this work?

There is play up and down yes..Not back and fourth. i believe it is the up and down causing problems. The coils look to have been in contact at some point, although i cant determine if it is the issue i am talking about now. The condensor wires are fine.. You seem to be nailing the issue here ..i appreciate it.

 

[Xcusme]

Re: How does this work?

Did you remove the aluminum ring that exists under the brass retainer (see you pic )??

 

[floatingwoody2006]

Re: How does this work?

No.. I have not removed anything under that brass ring, although being the curious sort, i almost did. Seems like the moving part right beneath that ring is the sloppy part. compression is ok on this motor BTW.. Indicating i don't think it ever overheated to warp anything,

 

[Xcusme]

Re: How does this work?

OK, if and when you do remove that brass ring, know that there is a right and wrong side to the aluminum ring, the flat side should contact the underside of the brass ring. If you reverse it, the armature plate will bind and you'll go nuts trying to sort it out, anyway read on


Here's a post from our good friend J. Reeves that explains the 'fix' for a wobbly armature plate. His reply helps a fella with a fix for a motor that fires on only one cylinder, but the fix applies to your situation too...

"That problem is usually caused by one of two things (or both) assuming that the points, condenser, and coil are okay.The first is that one of the spark plug wires has chaffed through which allows it to ground out as the armature plate turns.The second is that too much rocking type motion exists in the seating of the armature plate (the plate the coils etc are attached to). The solution to this problem follows.

(Magneto Armature Plate)

If the armature plate has a a loose fitting, wobbling motion (the plate that the points, coils etc are attached to), it is usually caused by a slightly worn support ring. This allows the point setting to change erratically as the armature plate turns. The cure is to remove the armature plate so that the support which is attached to the powerhead with 4 screws is visible. Then, with a screwdriver and hammer, or some tool of your choosing, and looking straight down at the support ring, make an indentation at what would be called the 12, 3, 6, and 9 O'clock positions. Install the armature plate and check for a smooth turning wobble free movement.You may need to do that procedure a few times to obtain the proper fit (not too tight, not too loose), but it's worth the effort."


Btw, I have use this procedure with great success but a few words of caution are in order. The idea here is to make small dents in the brass ring at 12-3-6-9 o'clock positions with a screwdriver blade. The aluminum ring underneath will now 'ride' on those 4 locations reducing the wobble. Here's the caution part, don't get nuts with the hammer. It only takes a slight bit of deformation at each location to get the desired result. If you did overdo it, you'd remove the brass ring and flip it over and tap it back flush..you get the idea.

 

[F_R]

Re: How does this work?

We are back to where I asked some time ago about whether the aluminum ring is right side up. It doesn't sound like it is. Somebody may have been in there before you and installed it upside down.

OK, here is another possibility: Is the center brass bearing tight in the aluminum armature plate? Sometimes they come loose. When they do, the only cure is to replace the armature plate.

 

[floatingwoody2006]

Re: How does this work?

This makes sense as it is the up and down causing issues now.. I will let you know the result..Thanks all for your patience to this point. The aluminum ring is correctly installed with the taper down, Its like the coils are tapping the flywheel, but they are aligned properly. I will try to tap the ring at 3, 6, 9, 12 to stop the up and down.
edit..Actually.. I did get a new armature plate from e-bay for this after i stripped a screw in the old one removing a coil. was a perfect match, but the only thing not stock on this motor. I may need to revisit that as well. All good advice here.. Thanks..