hpdi intermittent starting issue

[skeeter7]

My 2000 150hp hpdi(vz150ylry) is having an intermittent starting issue. It has been running fine, but the last few trips it has been acting up. Once it starts it runs fine, the problem is starting. I will start it up, run around, and then stop to fish. When I go to move again, sometimes it will start, sometimes it won't. It will turn over but it won't start. Once I get home I'll hook it up to the hose and it will fire right up. I don't get it, it's unbelievably intermittent. There seems to be no ryhme or reason to it. I even took it too a shop and they couldn't figure it out. Everything was to spec and I can't recreate the issue for diagnosis. It seems as though this problem has started after we replaced the control cables. Could this be related? Maybe a switch? Any advice or guidance would really be appreciated. I have nowhere else to go.

Other little issues:
Sometimes hard to start when cold.
Hesitates and will stall if I shift too slowly.
Can't seem to get ideal WOT rpms(only get about 5000)

 

[skeeter7]

Re: hpdi intermittent starting issue

Any ideas would really help. No thought will go unheard.

 

[MGoral]

Re: hpdi intermittent starting issue

Maybe bad fuel to oil ratio, carb maybe gummed up. Got a tough one there.....

 

[skeeter7]

Re: hpdi intermittent starting issue

Thanks for the reply. I''l have to look into the fuel/oil ratio. It's an hpdi so there are no carbs. After further research it seems that a bad low pressure fuel pump could be causing my problems. I guess the diaphrams can tear, flood the motor, and cause air leaks. It's suppose to be easy to check so I'm gonna give that a shot as well. Thanks again.

 

[99yam40]

Re: hpdi intermittent starting issue

Check fuel pressures on rail and other places. there are filters and screens inside the VST and other places that need to be looked at.
I would recommend taking it to a good Yamaha shop with trained techs that have the proper tools and equipment and the knowledge to use them

 

[skeeter7]

Re: hpdi intermittent starting issue

I have taken it to a yamaha tech and everything is to specs. All fuel pressures are reading properly according to the software. I even replaced the lift pumps thinking they were flooding. Still same problem.

 

[99yam40]

Re: hpdi intermittent starting issue

You will have to monitor when problem is occurring to find out if you have a loss of spark, low pressure and staving for fuel, high pressure causing too rich on fuel

 

[SparkieBoat]

Re: hpdi intermittent starting issue

do you have a healthy battery...sometimes a slightly weak battery can cause starting problems when in the water. you should carry a inductive timing light next time you go out to check for spark when it doesnt crank. or could be a dragging starter. I know on some motors they will not fire until starting reaches a certain RPM
I just read your other symptoms..you defiantly got a mechanical issue..it takes a real pro mechanic to trouble shoot these motors...there were no codes on my motor either but I had to fix it anyway..the off idle stall (this seems to be a widespread issue) can be fixed but not by your average yamaha tech. for whatever reason most of them know very little and just start changing parts until they fix it. I got a F115 that had some issues..off idle stall was one of the symptoms I was having and slightly low power..I had to buckle down and figure it out on my own...luckily a yamaha master tech gave me some real good pointers, as did a few other guys. I am selling my efi and going back to carbs

 

[skeeter7]

Re: hpdi intermittent starting issue

Thanks for the advice. The problem has become more of a constant issue. Only on the water though, never on the hose. Even when it starts I have to put it in gear or it will die. I will try to monitor it while the problem occurs. It's just difficult for me to do any real diagnosis on the water. We replaced the throttle position sensor, adjusted it, and it seemed to work for a while. Then the problem reoccurred. There is a very reputable yamaha tech about an hour away from me, but he's booked for the next couple weeks. When we replaced the control cables we were not certain about all the wire harnesses. I think we reconnected them all correctlly, but I'm not positive. Where can I get a diagram or photo of these wire harnesses? Sparkie, I will check my battery just in case. What exactly do you mean by "off idle stall"? Also, what was the solution to your problem?

 

[SparkieBoat]

Re: hpdi intermittent starting issue

when I tried to throttle up slowly ..as soon as the engine began to rev up it would stall. off idle stall. it is a common problem. here is my you tube of it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdPeI9Kgprs
After I cleaned out the VST chamber and the little screen at the bottom of the high pressure fuel pump, it stopped my off idle stall. I assume some mechanic adjusted the TPS to make engine run with the VST clogged. After cleaning VST engine lost power and was missing a lot at all RPMs. I then soaked my ISC valve in Sea Foam for 2 days.. the ISC valve was getting too hot, indicating it was sticking. i reinstalled the isc valve and adjusted TPS to .733 at 0% open shutters. my motor is now fixed. 5V reference was 4.94v...

I cannot wait to get rid of it, as you have already experienced, qualified yamaha techs stay backed up year round, they tell you 2 weeks then after 2 weeks they tell you maybe next week, then next week they tell you by the end of the week, then they tell you they could not get to it but would real soon, then after a couple more weeks they finally get to it and tell you with a big ole smile it is fixed and how appreciative you should be to them for getting it done soo fast as they have been backed up and put you ahead of someone else. then they hand you some ridiculously high bill that is about 3x what they originally said it would be, but you should be very thankful that they caught all these other little things that woulda for sure left you stranded at sea soon or caused catastrophic damage. so now you have missed over half of the fishing/boating season with your over priced motor and your buddy with the old ragged 1987 boat/motor set up has been going out 3 times a week and catching fish, pulling his kids on a tube and having a blast in his set up that cost less than your repair bill....

 

[skeeter7]

Re: hpdi intermittent starting issue(update)

Re: hpdi intermittent starting issue(update)

Okay, here is an update. Replaced the shift interrupt switch and took the boat back out. It pretty much did the same thing. We decided to double back over the tech's tests and check the basics. It doesn't seem like a fuel problem and we were really leaning towards a spark issue. It just seems like something isn't firing. We got the boat running and tested spark in gear and under load. Our test revealed 1 cylinder NOT firing, the other 5 were. The cylinder lacking spark was the top port cylinder. I believe this is cylinder 2, but not sure. I've ordered a new coil and set of plugs just to be sure. This should fix the spark issue, at least I hope so. From my understanding this motor will run on 2, 4, or 6 cylinders depending on what it's doing. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it starts on 6, drops to 4 whenever in idle, and all six fire when in gear via the shift switch's signal. Also, if reved up in N it will drop down to 2 in order to prevent over reving. Just out of curiousity, how are the cylinders numbered and which ones drop in N?

 

[SparkieBoat]

Re: hpdi intermittent starting issue(update)

Re: hpdi intermittent starting issue(update)

I am not sure how the ECU cuts out cylinders, but I am very interested in your results and final resolution. do you have a manual? please post results. good luck

 

[skeeter7]

Re: hpdi intermittent starting issue(update)

Re: hpdi intermittent starting issue(update)

Replaced all plugs and the coil for the cylinder in question. Took boat back out and it did the same thing. I guess it's time to hand it over to a tech. I've spent the past year and WAY too much money trying to get this pos running right. Hopefully this tech knows what he is doing and can figure it out. 3rd times a charm right?

 

[jeffersondodson561]

Re: hpdi intermittent starting issue(update)

Re: hpdi intermittent starting issue(update)

This is from the Yamaha Service Bulletin for that year. Bulletin#O2000-005

 

[skeeter7]

Re: hpdi intermittent starting issue(update)

Re: hpdi intermittent starting issue(update)

Thanks jefferson. Is there anyway that I could see the whole bulletin? I can only see parts of it on your post. If my cable isn't adjusted properly to this bulletin could it cause hard starts as well?

 

[jeffersondodson561]

Re: hpdi intermittent starting issue(update)

Re: hpdi intermittent starting issue(update)

The reason you (and probably the dealership) is not seeing this on the trailer is because you need a counteractive force against the prop (water) to load up the shift interupt switch, anyone who has had a comeback working on the OMC sterndrive shift interupt/cancelation buttons is well aware of this. PM me your email and I will send you the bulletin. And it's just Jeff, that is my user name I use for all of this internet bullsh*t requiring a password.

 

[skeeter7]

Re: hpdi intermittent starting issue

I appreciate it jeff. You have a pm. So you think an improperly adjusted cable could be my problem?

 

[jeffersondodson561]

Re: hpdi intermittent starting issue

Hard to tell without seeing the motor, but cylinders 2 and 3 do not fire at idle and if the shift interupt switch is keeping others to fire that would make me suspicious.

 

[jeffersondodson561]

Re: hpdi intermittent starting issue

I then soaked my ISC valve in Sea Foam for 2 days..

What valve is this, HPDI's do not have an ISC?

 

[SparkieBoat]

Re: hpdi intermittent starting issue

seems like all fuel injection motors have to have a ISC valve...but I am not for sure on the HPDI motors. my motor was a 4 stroke EFI. and the ISC valves seem to be problematic.