I am an idiot...no need to point it out, just help please.

[Viddi]

Ok, so here's the skinny...I ust replaced the drive (alpha 1) on my boat, and got my carb situation sorted out. I was feeling pretty good about myself when I was out breaking in the new drive.

I was giving her full throttle when all of a sudden the rev's go through the roof, and the boat stops going anywhere! From what I read it is a spun hub exept.....here is the idiot part... I realized when I got back that I did not put on the thrust washer.

I did not even realize that there was such a thing b/c I had never taken off a prop b4. It was only when I looked at my old drive that I saw the damned thing mocking me from the prop shaft.

My question is, how much damage (and to what) have I likely done? The boat ran fine for a while, but I have no forward movement now. When I am trimmed all the way up the prop spins, but when I put it in the water...nothing.

I am hoping it is just a matter of putting the washer on and away we go, but for some reason I don't think I will be that lucky. Thoughs...ideas...insults?

 

[TowRoper]

Re: I am an idiot...no need to point it out, just help please.

i don't think missing a thrust washer there would damage it in such a short time (but i may be an idiot too lol) and have you checked for a spun hub by marking it? you may have got lucky but someone will tell you more my fingers are crossed for ya!

 

[Bt Doctur]

Re: I am an idiot...no need to point it out, just help please.

Don`t think you going to be that lucky,without the thrust collar the prop will sit tight against the carrier lock ring and may actuall wear a deep groove into it.Should the prop actually jam up there the HP has nowhere to go and can blow the coupler or break a shaft. Install the prop with it, with the engine OFF,shift into full fwd,turm prop counterclockwise while having someone watch the input shaft behind the motor
prop turns, shaft turns= coupler
prop turns,shaft dosent= drive issue
You did fill the drive from the bottom untill the oil came out the top vent, correct?

 

[Viddi]

Re: I am an idiot...no need to point it out, just help please.

Don`t think you going to be that lucky,without the thrust collar the prop will sit tight against the carrier lock ring and may actuall wear a deep groove into it.Should the prop actually jam up there the HP has nowhere to go and can blow the coupler or break a shaft. Install the prop with it, with the engine OFF,shift into full fwd,turm prop counterclockwise while having someone watch the input shaft behind the motor
prop turns, shaft turns= coupler
prop turns,shaft dosent= drive issue
You did fill the drive from the bottom untill the oil came out the top vent, correct?

I did fill with oil using the pump from the bottom. I will have to check out the spin test when I go down to the cabin on the weekend.

While I was on the water I did check (with the engine off) full forward and the prop would lock counter clockwise, and ratchet clockwise. The opposite for reverse. However, if I put enough force on it, it would slip a bit when it was supposed to be locked. Does this shed any more light. BTW I had only run the boat for about 4 hrs like this mainly at low (under 3000 rpm) revs. It wasn't until I gave her more throttle that this happened.

 

[Bt Doctur]

Re: I am an idiot...no need to point it out, just help please.

When you say slipped a bit, can be coupler or shaft, you have to watch the input shaft to do that test

 

[Viddi]

Re: I am an idiot...no need to point it out, just help please.

When you say slipped a bit, can be coupler or shaft, you have to watch the input shaft to do that test

Would the coupler make a "growling" noise when I shift into drive?...I just had the gimbal bearing replaced so that's not it. Perhaps the growling wasa result of no thrust washer?

Am I correct in assuming the engine likely has to be pulled to do the coupler?

 

[Bt Doctur]

Re: I am an idiot...no need to point it out, just help please.

pull the drive, then the engine

 

[erikgreen]

Re: I am an idiot...no need to point it out, just help please.

Would the coupler make a "growling" noise when I shift into drive?...I just had the gimbal bearing replaced so that's not it. Perhaps the growling wasa result of no thrust washer?

Am I correct in assuming the engine likely has to be pulled to do the coupler?

Yes. Check the prop hub first, but if the coupler's gone the engine has to come out to put a new one on.

Erik

 

[Viddi]

Re: I am an idiot...no need to point it out, just help please.

Just a quick follow up (I haven't been able to check the boat yet) but before this happened I had the boat in b/c the bellows had leaked and the gimbal was shot. I was told that the bearing was pretty seized onto the shaft and they spent a long time trying to get it off. As a result, he said the drive was in pretty bad shape and would likely need to be replaced. They charged me $700 to do the gimbal and bellows, and then I spent another $1200 for a new SEI drive.

Shouldn't they have inspected the coupler as well when they did the gimbal if it was that bad?

 

[Viddi]

Re: I am an idiot...no need to point it out, just help please.

No. A coupler should only be replaced if it is damaged. They are quite expensive.

Not replaced...inspected. If they looked, wouldn't they have noticed that it was close to failure (less than 5hrs later)....unless of course my aforementioned stupidity accelerated the problem :redface:

 

[bruceb58]

Re: I am an idiot...no need to point it out, just help please.

Did you look behind the motor for metal or rubber dust and or a burnt smell? Was the alignment checked when the new drive was put on?

You have a spare propellor to try? Could also just be a spun hub.

 

[Maclin]

Re: I am an idiot...no need to point it out, just help please.

You say you can get the prop to spin against the lock in gear ("However, if I put enough force on it, it would slip a bit when it was supposed to be locked"), so mark the prop aross the hub and get it to slip then look at the marks to see if the prop moved but the hub did not.

 

[SuzukiChopper]

Re: I am an idiot...no need to point it out, just help please.

You say you can get the prop to spin against the lock in gear ("However, if I put enough force on it, it would slip a bit when it was supposed to be locked"), so mark the prop aross the hub and get it to slip then look at the marks to see if the prop moved but the hub did not.

I agree with all the prop remarks. Start with the simplest/cheapest thing you can possibly check and keep moving on up the food chain.

 

[brianvolt7]

Re: I am an idiot...no need to point it out, just help please.

Joined this one because of the title on the thread- Sounded like I?d fit right in. For what its worth, sounds like the prop bushing might have got fried when the prop pushed up against the outdrive. I believe the tolerances on the bushing is set so it does not cause damage to lower unit/outdrives when the prop comes to a stop while under power. Although, I am likely an idiot and probably don?t know what I?m talking about.

I love fishing though if that counts

 

[Viddi]

Re: I am an idiot...no need to point it out, just help please.

Thanks for the help so far. I was able to zip down to the cabin today and have a look. Unfortunately low tide still had my boat in about 3 ft of water so I couldn't get a really good look. I got the prop off anyways though...

The good news: The coupler looks good (mind you it was not under load) but the hub was definately shot.

The bad news: The prop has actually reamed out the metal on the lower unit, and also created a bevel on the prop...coincidently almost the exact depth of the thrust washer.

If I just got a new prop and slapped her on there (with the washer this time ) what sort of problems will I have?

Should I just get a thinner washer so there is not as much space?

Do I actually have to replace the brand new lower unit (case)???

 

[jtybt]

Re: I am an idiot...no need to point it out, just help please.

Out this way a large boat yard that shall remain nameless forgot to put the thrust washers on dual VP's. The props ATE the drives.

Without the thrust washer on the only thing holding the prop in position on the shaft is the rubber hub.

 

[cr2k]

Re: I am an idiot...no need to point it out, just help please.

Yes I think they should have at least visualized the coupler when the drive was off. It's like not checking your brakes when you have your wheels off your car. It's just so easy to shine a flashlight in there and look. I mean an aggressive shop would do it just so they can sell you a coupler job. Why wouldn't a good shop do it to let you know?

I always check.

Now the question that was asked eariler...
Did you check alignment when you replaced the drive? If it was any kind of hard to get off/on that can cause a lot of damage to the coupler as the splines on it are aluminum. Did you use Spline Grease or some other similar tenacious ptfe kind of grease?

 

[Viddi]

Re: I am an idiot...no need to point it out, just help please.

The engine alignment was not checked, but the drive slid in quite nicely. no problems at all...

I would just like to know if the loss of about 1/4" of metal from the drive (where the prop meets the drive) will be a problem?

 

[bruceb58]

Re: I am an idiot...no need to point it out, just help please.

The engine alignment was not checked, but the drive slid in quite nicely. no problems at all...

Doesn't matter...you always check the alignment. Still can slide in with the alignment way off.

 

[45Auto]

Re: I am an idiot...no need to point it out, just help please.

Just put it back together with the correct thrust washer and don't worry about it. The loss of aluminum from the back edge of the lower won't affect anything but looks. It could make it hard to remove the bearing carrier if you ever need to rebuild the lower (chewed up threads on the lower or nut), but that's about it. The bearing carrier carries all bearings, shafts, etc, and the loads through them. It's held into the back of the drive with the big spanner nut you see at the end of the drive, it looks like this:

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc...RL=true&storeNum=6&subdeptNum=68&classNum=516

The bearing carrier itself is the piece that looks like this:

http://www.mercstuff.com/lowercarriers.htm

If everything inside the spanner nut looks okay and didn't get chewed up by the prop, it should be alright.