i challenge PW & BS to a debate

[ebbtide176]

(amended wording to tone it down a little)<br /><br />come up with something, goferit. you know you wanna <br />

 

[rudeafrican]

Re: i challenge PW & BS to a debate

yo ebb, black jack been flowing?

 

[plywoody]

Re: i challenge PW & BS to a debate

No one wants to have an honest debate. They simply want to fling insults. That's no fun.<br /><br />Or they want to throw out cliches as if they were meaningful. Like welfare recipients.<br /><br />The entire federal budget for welfare, excluding medicaid, is approximately 16.2 billion. It is given to the states. The states have currently a 4.4 billion dollar welfare surplus.<br /><br />In a multi trillion dollar budget, that is far less than 1% of expenditures. that is surely where all of our problems lie, and where we should concentrate our efforts. Gag me!<br /><br />Oh, but it is not an emotional argument, I am told.

 

[62_Kiwi]

Re: i challenge PW & BS to a debate

Your federal government is spending less than 1% of it's revenue on welfare!!? - I'm impressed.

 

[ob]

Re: i challenge PW & BS to a debate

Or roughly $50 per year for every man, woman,and child that resides in the country. A family of six donates $300 per budget if taxes were spread evenly.That doesn't include subsidized loans or medical.A poll was recently reported by CNN which stated that nearly one out of every three households in the US were recieving some measure of monetary government assistance.

 

[JB]

Re: i challenge PW & BS to a debate

Hmmm. Medicaid is not welfare? What is your definition of welfare? What other taxpayer-financed handouts are you excluding? What private charities and one-to-one handouts are you excluding?<br /><br />Be fair, now. What is the total of handouts of all kinds from pockets of US residents, including handouts to foreign governments?<br /><br />It is often said that, "The devil can quote statistics to his end." Sounds like your end is to paint the USA as stingy. <br /><br />With the possible exception of the Swedes, I see the USA as the most generous nation on earth. I gave away over $15,000 in 2000 (Before Enron, Worldcom et al evaporated my assets). That was over 25% of my income for that year, BEFORE taxes.<br /><br />Politically, I am a bit to the right of Libertarians, so don't write me off as some bleeding heart liberal trying to assuage a guilt fantasy.<br /><br />Your turn.

 

[ebbtide176]

Re: i challenge PW & BS to a debate

hehehe - no rudeafrican, and i got a good chuckle from your post. i thought i could help take the load off some others by giving those 2 some fodder right here i think you're talking about Jack Daniels or some other liquor - i don't like that stuff. <br /><br />i guess BS hasn't joined yet because he hasn't come up with his own topic, but is still waiting on someone else's opinion to pounce on.<br /><br />PW - i don't yet understand what you want to debate, other than just making a counterclaim to someone else's opinion on welfare. u gave some good info though, and that is what should be the whole point of a debate, you know - being helpful . you're right, your idea of debating here just ends up with insults, negative criticism, boring cliches, and irritation to many people who simply want to post their opinion. you have been just as guilty of it as myself.<br /><br />i think you're partly right - many don't want to debate, some do. but you probably ought to let them know up front that you are opening a debate, and it is not the place to simply state their mind, without fear of someone taking their words against them.<br /><br />maybe you feel that anything posted on this site is open to debate, but i submit that many just come here to speak their piece, vent or get a laugh. without fear of someone else trying to make fun of them or make them look stupid.<br />- the evidence of my point is in the # of times that heated arguments arise from your 'debating' style.<br /><br />you could have very easily stayed out of the "rooney" post, if you didn't like it. or maybe you & BS can start up your own debates on the good points of your particular partylines, and start out using only your opinions, leaving others out of it... just a thought

 

[SCO]

Re: i challenge PW & BS to a debate

Speaking for self, I only want to have honest debate. Anything else is meaningless anda waste of time. I like the pie chart idea. It would be instructive to see the entire picture, just where each fraction of every dollar goes. If it proves to be the republican good ole boy system giving each other all the money, looting the treasury, I'll send you the money for a steak dinner PW (at Bonanza steak house, ha ha)

 

[neumanns]

Re: i challenge PW & BS to a debate

Just a little food for thought I looked up a few words in the "Websters New American Dictionary"<br /><br />debate: to discuss a question by considering opposed arguments<br /><br />argue: to give reasons for or aginst something<br /><br />fight: a hostile encounter <br /><br />I am usally more than willing to debate something as I may learn something you know point and counterpoint thing and will quite often take a view oppisite of my own in hopes of learning. I enjoy a good debate. however the posts and threads leading up to this post I consiered an argument however it looks I was wrong this is a fight.

 

[SCO]

Re: i challenge PW & BS to a debate

Granted neumanns, was a bit testy, but more productive than most in that it led to this thread. I think this one has a chance of being a debate.

 

[ebbtide176]

Re: i challenge PW & BS to a debate

i know you will be heartbroken, but i've got to check out for awhile. my daughter's recital is today. in my absence, pls feel free to spar with sco & others

 

[Carphunter]

Re: i challenge PW & BS to a debate

Man........you ever tried to melt that government cheese.........that stuff is like plastic......Makes a good boat anchor.<br /><br />Would I be considered a welfare recepient if I ate government cheese?<br /><br />Sorry guys.......I must be on the wrong thread.

 

[plywoody]

Re: i challenge PW & BS to a debate

JB<br /><br />Medicaid is primarily for the elderly and the disabled, although their is no doubt that there are welfare recipients on it.<br /><br />It is not broken down in the budget, so it is impossible to know which is what.<br /><br />Surely you all are not suggesting that you want to eliminate medical care for the elderly, are you? Or that it forms a serious financial problem for this country?

 

[plywoody]

Re: i challenge PW & BS to a debate

Irrelevant?<br /><br />I have to laugh at that one.<br /><br />Here we are suffering through the worst economy in a generation, with deficits escalating as far as the eye can see, with no end in sight, a few short years before the baby boomers retire and we will need extra money for them... a war in Iraq that seems to have escalated terror attacks, with an elevated threat level here, and congress just passed the Warren Buffet welfare act!<br /><br />And for this you are infinitely proud?<br /><br />Your standards are a bit low, I think.

 

[JB]

Re: i challenge PW & BS to a debate

HI. PW.<br /><br />Do not confuse Medicaid with Medicare. Medicare is paid for by the recipients. I paid for it for years before I became eligible, and I still pay for it. It is available only to the elderly, and only to those who pay for it.<br /><br />Medicaid is handouts to the needy. That, by my understanding makes it welfare. Like most handouts, it is capricious and arbitrary in defining who is needy. In 1998 and 1999, I paid over $100K in medical bills, severely depleting my before-Enron savings. Now that I am broke I would still not be eligible because I still own my home.<br /><br />I do not propose to eliminate it, it does not present a severe financial difficulty to our country. I suggested nothing of the kind.

 

[Cobotr]

Re: i challenge PW & BS to a debate

"a war in Iraq that seems to have escalated terror attacks" (Quote from Plywoody.)<br /><br />An interesting and perverted way of looking at it! So the USA is the bad guy here.<br /><br />I would believe that the "terror attacks" escalated to a war in Iraq. Where were you when the US was attacked? You did hear about that didn't you? You are aware there was more than 1 attack? You are aware that many Americans died? First!

 

[SCO]

Re: i challenge PW & BS to a debate

I can agree it's not a good time to have to fight a war. We do what we have to do to survive as a country, and that is what taxes are for. Social security would have been a good idea if they would have left it alone. My generality of the hour is that when the government takes our money to redistribute it, they screw things up royally. You put enough accessories on your 135 hp motor, and you end up outputting only 50 hp. Can we not agree that the social programs add up to ultimately hinder the health of the nation by adding to the deficits and debt and reduced buying capacity of the taxpayors, regardless of the righteousness of them?

 

[SCO]

Re: i challenge PW & BS to a debate

Thanks for your comment Cobtr. I wanted to address that but have been down that road so many times with PW, that I know it is entirely pointless to try and argue those kinds of points, but they need to be said.

 

[plywoody]

Re: i challenge PW & BS to a debate

Are you referring to the attack of 9/11? Yep, I heard about that. I bet I was as angry as you were about it. Possibly even more.<br />What I'm puzzled about is what Iraq had to do with it? And why we would attack them over it?<br /><br />As far as the economy goes, It seems that I have to move to northern Michigan to go back to full time work. I don't want to, but prospects in the west with the unemployment rate rising by the day are grim.<br />I get to take over a horribly mismanaged mill that has been down the last 2 years, and get it back running again. I looks like 16 hour days for a while, until it is under control, and not much time to play on the internet.<br /><br />At least I am hoping to sneak out occasionally to catch a salmon in Lake Huron. I think the fishing is better in Lake Huron than Puget Sound anyway. Oh, well

 

[Carphunter]

Re: i challenge PW & BS to a debate

PW, its nice that you get to go to Lake Huron and fish for salmon, wouldn't it suck to lose your freedom to do those kind of things? History has proven that freedom has to be fought for.<br /> Freedom is obtained, not given.<br /> <br />Iraq has harbored some of the same terrorists that were responsible for 9/11, they were run by an evil dictator who has proven that he would use weapons of mass destruction, (which he did in the early 90's.....a biological attack on his so called enemies), and this same Iraqi leader has openly condemned the United States, and applauded what happened on 9/11........and you wonder why we attacked this regime? I feel sorry for you if someone has to explain this to you......But hey...that whats great about the good ol' U.S., everyone can have their own opinion.<br />I believe we have prevented something very bad from happening to us or some of our allies by what we accomplished in Iraq. At least now we don't have to wait around and see what evil thing they had planned for us or our friends.<br /><br />Memorial Day is upon us........lets all remember what its all about.