I just inheirited a classic, but have noobie questions...

[ShoalSurvivor]

it's a 1971 Glasstron with a 1985 Force 85, kept in garage and was started about 3-4 months ago.
It was really well taken care of. Seems to be in great shape, and I expect it should run. I can't afford to put a lot of cash into this, but would love to take my kids out on the water.

the key was lost, so I had to put in a new ignition switch. I put in new plugs, got some fresh gas and premixed it.
The battery is dead. I used jumper cables to from my Expedition, and it powered accessories and the starter turned. Not enought to start, but it turned a few times.

Q1) Should that be enough power, or does the boat battery delivery more power? I don't want to replace a battery if there are other problems

Q2) Should the starter spin steadily, or will it react to compression in the engine? This one does a whhiiirl, whhiiirrrl pattern. It pops up and trys to spin the flywheel, but cant get enough spin going. Is it likely a starter motor? Should I be able to start this manually with a rope?

Q3) How does the shifter/throttle work. There is a red finger lever at the top of the throttle handle that lifts a metal connector off a pin. That seems to be needed to engage the gears, but I don't know. There is also a little rubber button in the center of the where the throttle arm attaches to the unit. What is that for?

Q4) It only trys to start when the lever is in Nuetral, but I've read that I'm supposed to throttle up to start...so how do I do that?

I'm generally rather handy and mechanical, but don't have a lot of experience with boats.

Thanks for your help!!
Michael

 

[cr2k]

Re: I just inheirited a classic, but have noobie questions...

Welcome to iboats. ask and we will try to answer. Any specific questions should be accompanied by engine Model and Serial Number usually found somewhere on the clamp bracket. Photos are truly worth thousands of words.

The button in the center will disengage the shifter and leave it in neutral. Then move the throttle forward for fast idle. If you have the right ignition sw you will push it in for choke while turning it to start. If you did not put in an outboard ign sw it will not shut off. That battery should work. Check and clean and tighten ALL electrical connections. The starter will act as described to the compression. I would do a compression and spark test. You will need to replace the water pump impeller every other year run or sit. If you don't know when it was done last or over 2 years it needs it.

Push center button, red lever move throttle forward, push key in to choke and crank until it pops, then start without the choke.
ALWAYS HAVE WATER RUNNING TO THE ENGINE WHEN YOU START IT (Flusher Muffs) It only take 15 seconds of running without water to fry the impeller. Shifting is done quickly or you will damage the shift dogs. TAKE A SAFE BOATING COURSE!!! They can be found online for free.

 

[MH Hawker]

Re: I just inheirited a classic, but have noobie questions...

and you can get a key for the switch , by knowing the brand and the switch will have a number on it

 

[moparkid16]

Re: I just inheirited a classic, but have noobie questions...

i can help with question 2.. i did the same with my boat when i got it. hooked jumpers from my jeep to the boat. and i had the same actions as you. i bought a new battery and hooked it up, and she turned over normal. charge your battery or get a new one.

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: I just inheirited a classic, but have noobie questions...

Welcome to iboats!!

it's a 1971 Glasstron with a 1985 Force 85, kept in garage and was started about 3-4 months ago.
It was really well taken care of. Seems to be in great shape, and I expect it should run. I can't afford to put a lot of cash into this, but would love to take my kids out on the water.

the key was lost, so I had to put in a new ignition switch. I put in new plugs, got some fresh gas and premixed it.
The battery is dead. I used jumper cables to from my Expedition, and it powered accessories and the starter turned. Not enought to start, but it turned a few times.

Q1) Should that be enough power, or does the boat battery delivery more power? I don't want to replace a battery if there are other problems

Q2) Should the starter spin steadily, or will it react to compression in the engine? This one does a whhiiirl, whhiiirrrl pattern. It pops up and trys to spin the flywheel, but cant get enough spin going. Is it likely a starter motor? Should I be able to start this manually with a rope?

Q3) How does the shifter/throttle work. There is a red finger lever at the top of the throttle handle that lifts a metal connector off a pin. That seems to be needed to engage the gears, but I don't know. There is also a little rubber button in the center of the where the throttle arm attaches to the unit. What is that for?

Q4) It only trys to start when the lever is in Nuetral, but I've read that I'm supposed to throttle up to start...so how do I do that?

I'm generally rather handy and mechanical, but don't have a lot of experience with boats.

Thanks for your help!!
Michael

Q1 One battery is plenty

Q2 It should spin steady

Since the boat has been sitting you more than likely have loose and/or dirty connections from corrosion. Remove and tighten ALL the electrical connections. If the wires get hot during starting it could also indicate corrosion inside the wire (inside the insulated portion) which raises resistance and should be replaced. MOST starting problems as you described are connection related so clean them and eliminate that possible factor BEFORE you replace the starter

Q3 I am bailing out on this one and maybe a "force outboard" person will pipe in

Q4 See Q3 answer

I sense your experience level with boats is about to rise!

 

[oldjeep]

Re: I just inheirited a classic, but have noobie questions...

When you hooked up the jumper cables, did you hook them to your dead battery or directly to the leads from thye boat? If you were running through a bad battery, that would explain the slow crank.

 

[spdracr39]

Re: I just inheirited a classic, but have noobie questions...

Jumper cables are not created equal. Cheap jumper cables will barely start a lawn mower. Make sure you're using quality ones. Also a completely dead battery will suck the power down. Let the battery charge a little before attempting the start.

 

[Aquaman-PSD]

Re: I just inheirited a classic, but have noobie questions...

I had a similar problem to your starting issue a couple times. Except mine would spin steadily but wouldn't pick up all the way and engage the flywheel. I tried jumping it and after some work finally got it to pick enough to hit the fly wheel.. it started the motor right up but I know the battery was still bad. My problem was the battery itself had a dry cell/dead cell. It wouldn't take a charge because of it.

If you do go to buy a new battery make sure it is a marine grade cranking battery. There are two types of marine grade batteries. Deep cycle is mainly used for trolling motors and such and marine grade cranking batteries are for the motor. Usually either will work for either application but the life of battery will be reduced if ran incorrectly.

 

[ShoalSurvivor]

Re: I just inheirited a classic, but have noobie questions...

Thanks all for the feedback!

I'll try again today, using the throttle and choke correctly, jumped directly to the boat wires instead of through a dead battery.

The wires all appear to be in good shape and are relatively new, but i'll clean and tighten everything. Jumper cables are good quality.

I squeezed fresh gas/oil using the tank bulb (external tank)... but should I have flushed fuel out of the inside of the motor first? The fuel filter appears clean.

If i can at least get it to turn over, then i'll take the next step: new water pump impeller and battery.

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: I just inherited a classic, but have noobie questions...

Re: I just inherited a classic, but have noobie questions...

...I'll try again today...If i can at least get it to turn over, then I'll take the next step: new water pump impeller and battery.

Do not forget to have the water running through it! NOT an option! In a tub or on Muffs!

The Impeller will go in 15 seconds. Other much more expensive items will go a minute later!

 

[ShoalSurvivor]

Re: I just inheirited a classic, but have noobie questions...

ok, i used muffs. Hooked everything up. squeezed the gas pump 5 times after it got hard. Pulled the red lever, pushed the button, moved the throttle all the way forward (in nuetral), pushed the key in for the choke, turned the ignition... and she cranked... a little faster, and a little farther. After 5-6 seconds, I stopped, waited and tried again. tried 3-4 times, but she wouldn't start.

The starter engages and spins, but the fly wheel does not move at a consistent pace. The starter gear will spin a few revolutions, then stop, then repeat... as if reacting to the compression in the cylinders... so it seems possible that I'm just not getting enough out of the starter motor.

I don't want to do any damage by over-trying to start it... but i've had 2-stroke engines that just needed a little choke finesse, and this doesn't seem much different .

 

[Solittle]

Re: I just inheirited a classic, but have noobie questions...

First I would pull the plugs and squirt some WD-40 or equivalent into each cylinder. Then turn it over by hand. It should turn easily.

Next you said "The starter engages and spins, but the fly wheel does not move at a consistent pace. " that tells me that your battery does not have a full charge and/or the cables do not have a good connection. Do not use jumpers at this point. You are probably not getting enough out of the starter because you do not have enough going into it.

Also check for spark.

I had the 19' version of that hull years back - good lake boat.

 

[ShoalSurvivor]

Re: I just inheirited a classic, but have noobie questions...

Thanks Solittle,
I already removed the plugs and lubed inside with the pre-mix oil (the right stuff, but the code escapes me), then replaced the plugs. It turns "smoothly" without plugs, but still takes energy... they are not frozen or stuck.

If I'm not getting enough out of the starter, and it's likely the battery, then I'll go buy a new one.

I don't want to buy a new battery, then a starter, then a head, then a new butt.. then a new wife

 

[NYBo]

Re: I just inheirited a classic, but have noobie questions...

Welcome to iboats!

To engage fast idle, you push in the button at the pivot point of the handle and pull the whole handle away from the control box, then push forward.

You have to push the key in and hold it there to keep the choke engaged at least until the motor starts to sputter.

Judging from the graphics on the motor cowl, it's an '87, not an '85.

 

[ShoalSurvivor]

Re: I just inheirited a classic, but have noobie questions...

To engage fast idle, you push in the button at the pivot point of the handle and pull the whole handle away from the control box, then push forward.

When I push the button in (at the pivot point), AND engage the red finger switch at the top of the handle, the arm moves forward or backward freely (either way), until it hits the center, at which point the button pops out. I cannot pull the handle away from the control box... it is screwed in to the assebly with 4 screws. Is that whole assembly supposed to pop out?

 

[moparkid16]

Re: I just inheirited a classic, but have noobie questions...

when i was trying mine with the jumper cables, i could not hook up to the battery lines. i had the same problem you are having. so, i tried a trick ive learned over the years of working on cars, i hooked the jumper to the starter and ground. it turned over much better, but it may harm things too, im not sure. ive never had anything bad happen by doing it though. but that told me the engine was good enough to get a battery and get it started. im possitive getting a battery is what you need to do. maybe take the battery out of your vehicle and hook it up the the boat wires before spending the cash on a new one, just to be 100% sure

 

[ShoalSurvivor]

Re: I just inheirited a classic, but have noobie questions...

i hooked the jumper to the starter and ground

you mean you bypassed the whole electrical system? Don't you need juice for the choke and distributor?

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: I just inheirited a classic, but have noobie questions...

By all means get a battery in the boat.
Buy one or temporarily borrow it from the car.
Trying to start it on jumper cables with no battery in the boat is going to be a major problem.
It should work, and it looks good on paper.
But the 10 foot cables going to the missing batteries cables are going to be a non-Starter. (Pun Intended!)

 

[moparkid16]

Re: I just inheirited a classic, but have noobie questions...

yes i bypassed everything. i had the cover off the engine and was trying to pull start it. on my 50hp mercury, theres a manuel choke for pull starting. i was actualy scared of it starting with the pull string, because it was so hard to pull i knew i couldnt get the string completely off the flywheel. that could have hurt. so i then figured why not try the direct power to the starter approach. she cranked beautifuly. it was enough to let me put away the fears of wasting money on a battery. i got the battery (70 at menards for deep cycle marine) and had it running in no time. i still want to learn how to get it going for pull starting though just incase i ever need to do that out on the water.

 

[ShoalSurvivor]

Re: I just inheirited a classic, but have noobie questions...

Unfortunately, My truck battery has large posts, and not the smaller terminals found on the marine battery. I will play around to see what I can figure out...but I don't have a good way to make a solid connection. I wish I knew someone with a boat battery