Ignition coil

LuckyPenny

Petty Officer 1st Class
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Feb 21, 2003
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256
Can anyone tell me what the difference is between a marine and automotive ignition coil is, or is there a difference.<br /><br />Talking about a Mercruiser 250 (1977 5.7L) standard points distr.<br /><br />Thanks
 

rabidfish

Senior Chief Petty Officer
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Oct 3, 2000
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788
Re: Ignition coil

This one is harder for most "laypersons" to understand... <br /><br />There may, or may not, be a difference, depending on the automotive coil in question.<br /><br />In general, there may be differences in corrosion protection, and in voltage output. <br /><br />That's the short version. There is a long version. I'll be happy to get it if you want it.<br /><br />The long version raises all sorts of questions and has no definative answers, unless you put real specifications behind it.
 

LuckyPenny

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Feb 21, 2003
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Re: Ignition coil

Yes, Please. I want to know if I will hurt my engine if I use a standard Automotive coil
 

tommays

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Jul 4, 2004
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Re: Ignition coil

the hard part is all your motor electric parts carry a saftey rating for use on and enclosed motor and its easy to see the difference on some parts a coil may look the same and might even be the same but as i have hear here many times<br /><br />you feeling luckey<br /><br />tommays
 

LuckyPenny

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Feb 21, 2003
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Re: Ignition coil

excuse me! try again, this does not make any sense.......
 

tommays

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Re: Ignition coil

i dont no what to say other than its different it might not be as different as say your starter but it is different<br /><br />your concern should not be hurting the motor it should be about hurting your self or some bystander like i said before all the electric parts carry a marine saftey rating and auto parts dont<br /><br />tommays
 

LuckyPenny

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Feb 21, 2003
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256
Re: Ignition coil

Look, I am not trying to offend anyone. I just want to know if there is any diffeerence between an automovite and marine coil. I know there is a difference between a marine carb and distributer, but the coil? I wsa wondering about the need for a resister or not.<br /> <br />My family are frequent visitor on my boat and if anyone thinks I would risk them, well........
 

Don S

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
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Aug 31, 2004
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62,321
Re: Ignition coil

An automotive or marine coil does not have any CG standards it has to meet, as in explosion hazards and such.<br />Now finding one with the proper voltage output is another story, but has nothing to do with safety.
 

newport dave

Chief Petty Officer
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Nov 21, 2004
Messages
458
Re: Ignition coil

Lucky,<br />The need (or lack thereof) for a ballast resistor is determined by the type of coil. Some marine coils need one and some (internal resistor type) do not.<br /><br />Don S,<br />Any tips on determining the right coil for a paticular application? I could use help in this area.<br /><br />Dave
 

Don S

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Re: Ignition coil

Any tips on determining the right coil for a paticular application?
Nope, I always use the right part......saves me time and money in the long run.
 

tommays

Admiral
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6,768
Re: Ignition coil

well now i am confused i guess thats the only ingition part without a rating<br /><br />tommays
 

rabidfish

Senior Chief Petty Officer
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Oct 3, 2000
Messages
788
Re: Ignition coil

Don is right on the money here. Use the correct part! There is no need for the spark arrest engineering for a coil, by it's design even an automotive coil shouldn't have an open spark. A uncontrolled spark here is equal to an ignition missfire at the plug.<br /><br />And the answer is: <br /><br />You wont hurt your engine, but it may not run properly. It's possible that it won't run at all. Even if it runs well, it may not run well for long. Give me a few minutes... I'll do my best with the long version and post it in a little while.<br /><br />As for the resistor. Your engine originally had a resistor in the coil. You need a coil with a resistor to lower the primary voltage through the points. This helps keep the points from arcing so much, increasing the usable life. Without a resistor, you are almost certain to be stranded somewhere, sometime.
 

trog100

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Dec 1, 2004
Messages
751
Re: Ignition coil

its down to the resistance across the primary circuit in the coil.. it should be a total of about 3 ohms including resistor wire.. a coil designed to go with a resistor wire would have a resistance of 1.5 ohms the resistor wire would provide the other 1.5 ohms to make up the 3 ohms..<br /><br />one designed to be used without the resistor wire in circuit would have a resistance of 3 ohms by itself..<br /><br />i would also guess here that resistor wires are used on boats instead of the more usual automotive wirewound ceramic pot things is because of heat.. the ceramic type gets very hot and would probably be considered a fire hazard..<br /><br />so the next time someone says can i use one instead of the wire.. the answer should be "no"..<br /><br />there is no difference between a marine and automotive coil.. just make sure u use one with the correct resistance across its primary circuit..<br /><br />it aint me really but i couldnt resist.. he he<br /><br />trog100
 

rabidfish

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Re: Ignition coil

OK... I have done my best here. Please consider that electronics engineering is not my educational background. Feel free to critique my comments, as I am always open to learn. (A core reason for what little successes I have had in my lifetime)<br /><br />Keep in mind that an engine is a system of systems, each operating in their own area of expertise (fuel/air/ignition/electrical/etc...), towards a common function. (Keep the engine running)<br /><br />The ignition system is designed to operate at utmost efficiency for the engine it was designed for. In other words, on a 1977 250 Mercruiser the points, condenser, coil, plug wires, plugs, etc, was all designed to be compatible to run that particular engine, at the designed speeds and workloads intended by Mercruiser. This means that the coil was designed to fire the suggested spark plugs effectively at all of the engine's designed parameters. A car or truck would have different design parameters, based on it's intended use.<br /><br />The design factors of the coils are not limited to the coil itself. The coil's design may change based on the type of plugs in the engine. It might also change based on the actual primary voltage in the ignition system. Typically, we associate 12 volts to be the primary voltage. However, we all know that battery voltage varies with charging system output. Now does the resistor need to drop 3 volts? or 4 volts? These issues have all been taken into consideration.<br /><br />The coils design can also be affected by the engine’s design RPMs. Simply stated, the faster the coil fires, the faster it needs to “recharge”. This is known as rise time. A coil with less internal resistance charges faster. So does a coil with less windings. This “faster” coil also produces less secondary voltage, requiring a hotter, faster firing plug. A hotter plug causes undue stress at higher RPM/load settings., so the entire system is a compromise, designed to work most effectively for your engine.<br /><br />Next factor in durability, and cost to manufacture, and you have most of the equation for the reason your ignition is built the way it is. It sure make’s Don’s reason to “use the right part” look good! Doesn’t it?<br /><br />I know I have missed something, but alas, I am out of breath and it’s surely someone else’s turn to take a shot at this one.<br /><br />Now I sit back and wait for the customary “Fishflogging”! ( ANYONE HAVE A COMMENT? )<br /><br />Does anyone have the time? Ah... self-employment.... the work is never done!<br /><br />Hey Trog! If you're still out there... here's to ya pal!
 

davidcrk1

Cadet
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Aug 9, 2004
Messages
12
Re: Ignition coil

Not sure if it was covered but a marine coil will have been filled with fluid (oil?) to protect against rough riding.
 

Buttanic

Senior Chief Petty Officer
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Sep 25, 2003
Messages
711
Re: Ignition coil

Some of you guy are putting way to much thought into a coil. All are oil filled. Like trog100 said the main issue is internal or external resistor. There is no such thing as a faster firing spark plug. The RPM of the engine determines how fast the plug fires. A hot or cold plug is determined by the design of the engine and its operating condition. Continuous high RPM, high power output such as racing requires a colder plug. Low speed and crusing requires a warmer plug. Plug heat range also determines how suseptable it is to fouling. Coil rise time or dwell on a points type ignition is based on the time the points are closed. The higher the RPM the shorter the dwell time available to charge tht coil. On an electronic ignition the dwell time can be longer because it is controlled electronily instead of mechanically with points. As such coil output voltage is more consistant through the entire RPM range as opposed to points where output voltage drops as dwell time gets shorter at higher RPM.
 

trog100

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Dec 1, 2004
Messages
751
Re: Ignition coil

coils just come off the shelf a bit like tires do.. there are only two basic types really.. six volt ones and twelve volt ones.. the six volt one when used on a twelve volt system needs the ballast resistor in circuit the twelve volt one dosnt..<br /><br />some are oil filled some arnt.. the oil filled ones can be run hotter and pass more current.. the oil helps cool the internals.. sports or heavy duty type coils would be oil filled..<br /><br />i think the history goes like this.. when the car makers first went from six to twelve volts many years ago some of em kept the original six volt coils and just added the ballast resistor.. no real reason just to save money..<br /><br />later some clever bugger had the idea to bypass the resistor during start-up to help compensate for the hefty voltage drop caused by the starter motor during cold winter months and so help starting..<br /><br />the ones that had made twelve volts coils in the first place never bothered..<br /><br />the six volt coil has a resistance of 1.5 ohms across its primary circuit.. the twelve volt one has a resistance of 3 ohms.. the resistance governs the current that passes thru the primary.. none of this is super critical either.. it just comes down to the fact that the more u shove thru the coil the quicker the points will burn out..<br /><br />a sports/heavy duty coil will simply pass more current than a standard one.. give a better spark (in theory) but the points would need attention more often..<br /><br />the points being the main current limiter here.. which is why electronic ignition is better.. u can bung more current thru it than u can points..<br /><br />trog100
 

olbuddyjack

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Oct 23, 2003
Messages
318
Re: Ignition coil

Trog, Only one note, My OMC boat has the resistor wire however my Chrysler boat has an external ceramic resistor for the coil so both are used in marine applications. In the Chrysler though the "wire" part of the resistor is completly encased in ceramic material, unlike the automotive counterpart.
 

trog100

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Dec 1, 2004
Messages
751
Re: Ignition coil

point taken jack.. i was visualizing the extremely hot wirewound ceramic type.. never seen any other..<br /><br />the long wire type must generate as much heat.. it has to.. i think it just gets spread over the several feet length of the things.. when i first saw one i was a bit dubious about it being neatly wrapped up in the loom.. i inspected it on a regular basis to make sure it wasnt melting anything.. he he<br /><br />to be honest the entire concept of a long piece of insulated straight wire carrying four amps plus wrapped up in a looom being used as a resistor.. struck me as a silly idea..<br /><br />trog100
 
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