Increased carburetion without spark advance?

nabiul

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After learning about the Johnson 9.9 to 15 conversion I compared the displacement of my 9.5 and was shocked to see that it was much higher than the 9.9/15. Naturally I started thinking what would happen if I made or rigged a bigger carburetor to this motor?

I know that for the 9.9 conversion you're supposed to do a link and sync, but this doesn't increase the WOT spark advance angle, so how does the motor function properly with the extra 1000 rpm?
 

tomhath

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I'd be surprised if a bigger carb changed much besides making it harder to start and idle poorly. In order to take advantage of the larger air/fuel flow from a bigger carburetor you also need to match the reed valves, manifold, and intake/exhaust ports.

As far as the 9.9 to 15 conversion, the common wisdom is that it's a 15 hp motor that's throttled down to 9.9 with the smaller carb. You're trying to go the other direction. I have a 9.9 with the 15 carb and another 9.9 with the standard carb, there is very little difference between them.
 

nabiul

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Really, you don't notice a faster top speed with the 15?
 

flyingscott

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The problem with what you want to do is when your done you could have just bought a 15 hp for less. Another problem is the 9.5 is not the most powerful of motors probably doesn't put out the full 9.5. It was a good motor in 1964 when it was designed but a good 9.9 will smoke the 9.5 pretty badly and 9.9s are reasonably cheap.
 

ondarvr

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You can't just keep increasing the spark advance, and like others said, there wasn't much difference in performance between the 9.9 and 15.

Run it as it was built, if you want more hp buy something else.
 

nabiul

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I'm mainly thinking about this because this is pretty much the lightest ~9hp motor you can get, the next size up is another 20lbs more to handle.
 

Frank Acampora

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If you are talking about the 9.5 "pancake" fishing engine then changing carbs is not an option. It was a special mount and special carb for that engine.

As far as timing you need to understand a couple of things: 1. Most crossflow engines use approximately 30 degrees advance at WOT. This is because gasoline has a definite burn rate (it is not an explosion). To develop maximum power the TIME of burning before and after top dead center must be equal. Excess timing advance actually decreases power and causes engine damage, 2. Loop charged engines usually use about 18 degrees timing advance. This is because the combustion chamber design causes more turbulence and faster burning. Thus less timing advance is needed. Because of this and other factors, all other things being equal, a loop charged engine will produce more horsepower than a crossflow. 3. Usually, horsepower is set by the factory by port timing. Two equal displacement engines with different porting and the same carb will produce different horsepowers. Putting on a bigger carb will increase horsepower a little, but not to the degree you would like. It is similar to an auto where adding a 4 barrel carb will add a little horsepower but unless you change the cam, heads, and manifold to take advantage of the additional airflow capacity of the carb, you simply won't see remarkable results.
 
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tomhath

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Really, you don't notice a faster top speed with the 15?

I'm not convinced the 9.9 is a throttled down 15.Looking at the displacement it seems more like the 15 is an over-carbureted 9.9.

Anything less than wide open and the 9.9 carb is flowing just as much air/fuel as the 15, that's what the throttle does.

It might have a bit more when running wide open but certainly not 50% more.
 

Sea Rider

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To upgrade a 9.9 HP 2 stroke Evi/Joh to a 15 HP one, you must swap carb and complete reed valve assembly too, can't speak for all years, at least on the 1996 model that was the way to go, went the hard way just swapping carb jets with crappy engine performance, a bad idea. With a converted 15 HP will achieve slight more top end speed + more torque to push better a boat with more load than with a 9.9 HP. Install an induction tach and play with prop pitches all you want to take the max out of that OB.

Happy Boating
 
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tomhath

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With a converted 15 HP will achieve slight more top end speed + more torque to push better a boat with more load than with a 9.9 HP.

I don't see how it could get more torque, that's a function of displacement and compression. You might get some more RPMs at WOT because it can let more air/fuel through, therefore more horsepower. But once you start to close the throttle you have the same thing as a smaller carburetor.
 

ondarvr

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Actually at lower throttle settings the power can be less, you typically lose low end and gain mid to upper RPM power with a bigger carb, mostly at the top though.
 

Sea Rider

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Can't speak for all Evi/John 9.9 /15 HP year upgrades.

Tech specs for both 9.9 & 15 HP 1994 & up models
-Both are 255 CC
-WOT RPM : 5000-6000
-Peak Torque 5500 RPM
-Upgrade 15 HP carb swap + 15 HP Reed Valve Assy (has slight larger diam intake holes)

A larger 15 carb has wider air/fuel passages than a 9.9 one, so "Once you start to close the throttle you have the same thing as a smaller carburetor"can't be compared as both are completely different carbs.

After engine receives more air/fuel mixture through larger reed valve ports, what should you call the extra " what ? " punch, power. Ain't that torque ? Didn't use induction tachs nor GPS at that time in order to test both models, but surely pushed my combo much better with better hole-shot than when at 9.9 HP and that's with standard delivered prop. You could feel the faster aceleration response on the throttle.

Once updated to 15 HP can go from there for a prop maximization to best suit you boat's hull drag, current load and boating needs, that's with an induction tach now that are in fashion.

Happy Boating
 
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