Inflatable cost of ownership and other questions

[cburkart]

Hello,

This is my first post--I'm sure it will end up being rather long so I'll apologize for that in advance. I have lurked here a bit and it seems to be a good forum for RIB/SIB information.

My desire is for a small boat that is useful for scuba diving at nearshore sites (maybe ~5 miles off the beach under good conditions) in the Gulf of Mexico--I live in Pensacola, Florida. I don't dive enough mostly because it's hard for me to swallow local charter prices of $85+ per person (my wife dives, too, so just one "inshore" trip is $170 plus a tip for the crew). So we mostly just do shore dives which can be disappointingly tide-dependent. I figured it must be more cost-effective (though of course more work) to buy a cheap boat than to pay for charters. I have the added complication that I can't buy a new tow vehicle right now: our VW Golf will do that duty, and I'm well within manufacturer limits as long as the payload is <1200lbs including trailer. For safety's sake we'd be diving with at least 3 divers so that one person is always on the surface--if we can figure out where to put everyone and their gear we'd like to have 4 divers on board, 2 up and 2 down.

So my main criteria are "inexpensive," "light enough," and "big enough." I've been looking closely at the largest Saturn model (the SD470); these also appear to be sold by Coastal Inflatables of New Hampshire with a 5-year rather than 3-year warranty. I would purchase under the assumption that in five years I throw the boat away and start with a new (bigger?!) boat. A local sporting goods store (Academy Sports) sells galvanized jon boat trailers for $500, or I might save some money by modifying a Harbor Freight trailer as I've seen some here do. I'm interested in both basic logistics of boat ownership and in the actual per-trip cost of short dive trips. In the interest of brevity I guess I'll just write down my thoughts on the latter and ask about the former later!

My assumptions (costs are rough estimates)

Boat depreciation: $350/year
Trailer depreciation: $50/year
Liability insurance: $150/year
Vessel registration: $25/year
Trailer registration: $50/year
Outboard depreciation: $100/year (plan on finding older used 25-40hp two stroke)
Outboard annual maintenance: $200/year (wild guess)

So without ever getting the boat wet it will cost, say, $1000/year to own. For variable costs I'm only assuming fuel: $3/gallon for 87 octane + ~$30/gallon for two-stroke oil puts me at about $4.00/gallon.

Supposing each trip I use ~6 gallons of fuel ($25 or so)--we should be able to launch pretty close to dive sites--my per-trip cost will be

10 trips/year: 1025/10 = ~$100/trip
20 trips/year: 1050/20 = ~$50/trip
30 trips/year: 1075/30 = ~$40/trip

I'm very interested in your comments. Are my assumptions way off? What costs am I ignoring/forgetting?

I have all sorts of other questions (e.g. about trailering vs. packing) and a sort of shopping list that I'm putting together, but I'll wait to post those until later.

Thanks!

 

[Drowned Rat]

Re: Inflatable cost of ownership and other questions

Well, your numbers are probably quite accurate, but with some variables. $200 for outboard maintenance is high if you can do the work yourself.

One thing you didn't outline here was modifications to your boat. Unless you plan on using it as it comes right out of the box, which if diving is its intended purpose, maybe that would be fine. At the least however, you'll need to outfit it for ocean safety. All the usual gear plus a radio, maybe a GPS, maybe a flare kit depending.

I think you're pretty close with your estimate.

 

[paulpost]

Re: Inflatable cost of ownership and other questions

The only recommendation I have is to get a 2 strokes engine 30 to 40 hp tiller to save space and have less stress on the transom (4 strokes are very heavy and from what you sed about using a trailer that means you'll have to leave the engine hanging on the transom).
Good luck

 

[cburkart]

Re: Inflatable cost of ownership and other questions

Well, your numbers are probably quite accurate, but with some variables. $200 for outboard maintenance is high if you can do the work yourself.

Thanks for the feedback. I did expect maintenance was on the high side but I really have no clue yet what things cost as I've never owned an outboard or a boat. I enjoy working on things myself so anything that's DIY is great, though my only real mechanical experience is with automobiles.

One thing you didn't outline here was modifications to your boat. Unless you plan on using it as it comes right out of the box, which if diving is its intended purpose, maybe that would be fine. At the least however, you'll need to outfit it for ocean safety. All the usual gear plus a radio, maybe a GPS, maybe a flare kit depending.

Yes, in my not-so-little shopping list I have a VHF radio, antenna, and either a good handheld GPS or a chartplotter/sounder if I can figure out how to mount and power it. In an inflatable of this size I don't think I can manage any sort of tank rank; I have seen people just lay tanks down and strap them to the floor so I expect I will have to experiment with something like that. I also have thought about a bimini top as a place to mount a vhf antenna and fly the dive flag, but I'm not sure how well that would work as I doubt I would want it up while under way. I hadn't thought about flares but that's an excellent idea. I have also considered a low-end EPIRB. For dive safety I will have a pony bottle with pure oxygen on board.

I think I would like to have some seating other than the standard skinny-slat benches. Ideally I'd have seating for 4, but maybe just having a cushier floor would be best. I would probably rig up a regular swiveling boat seat for the person minding the tiller.

 

[cburkart]

Re: Inflatable cost of ownership and other questions

The only recommendation I have is to get a 2 stroke engine 30 to 40 hp tiller to save space and have less stress on the transom (4 strokes are very heavy and from what you said about using a trailer that means you'll have to leave the engine hanging on the transom).
Good luck

Thanks! I have my eye out for an older 35hp two-stroke Johnson or similar. I have seen older models that weigh in at not too much more than 100lbs. or so when tiller and manual-start equipped.

This brings me to another question: how feasible would it be to launch and operate without a boat trailer? I was thinking I could get a small utility trailer to carry the floor, deflated tubes, outboard, and maybe some of the dive gear. I'm guessing it would take an hour or so to set up but it would also expand the range of sites from which we could launch, shortening travel time to dive sites--we could even launch right from the beach using a little dolly or something. My main worry would be getting the outboard mounted and unmounted each time. With four people it probably wouldn't be too bad, but we would probably want to use the boat for non-diving purposes as well when it would only be the two of us. In those instances we'd probably be in trouble, as my wife only weighs 100lbs. after a hearty meal. Then again, with the right handholds I can carry 100 lbs. short distances.

One solution is to look at smaller outboards, but even 25hp two-strokes don't get much lighter than 100 lbs. or so.

Again, thanks both of you for the advice. I know I have a lot to learn yet!

 

[Drowned Rat]

Re: Inflatable cost of ownership and other questions

You time to set up is a safe one. An hour if you're really taking your time. Managing a boat that size without a trailer is really a two person job. They are quite heavy. But with two persons, it's very doable. Transom wheels make it a one person job, but just barely. Even a deflated, rolled up boat that size is very awkward and heavy, but, it can be done. Just watch your back! I have the 14' model that I trailer on a modified Harbor Freight flatbed and it's perfect. As I'm sure you've seen there are many creative ideas on how to trailer these things. I much prefer being able to rig and derig at home and just take the boat to the lake ready to go. This is especially true if you're using a public ramp. You don't really want to spend an hour on the ramp rigging your boat to launch, but you really have no choice without a trailer.

Just something to think about. Good luck. Oh, BTW, we like pictures!

 

[jondavies]

Re: Inflatable cost of ownership and other questions

I recommend looking for at least a 40 HP 2 stroke. I had a 25 HP on a boat of similar size and it wasn't enough for two divers plus gear. The 40 is great.

Also, I wouldn't worry about any additional seating yet. For me, having an open deck is absolutely essential for diving and sitting on the tubes is just fine. I'd dive off the boat once or twice before making any decision about seats.

Here's some other items I might suggest:

Great combo GPS/Fishfinder/Bottom Sounder (beats carrying a handheld but you do need some kind of 12V power source -- a Radio Shack AA battery pack works):

http://www.cabelas.com/link-12/product/0065672020560a.shtml?cmCat=perf&rid=0987654321&cm_mmc=Performics-_-CSE-_-GoogleBaseUSA-_-0065672020560a&mr:trackingCode=231D2FCA-958E-DF11-A0C8-002219318F67&mr:referralID=NA

Flooring (non slip and protects the floor boards from tanks and belts):

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200306157_200306157

Tank Rack (stores tanks securely and efficiently -- mount rack on plywood base):

http://www.divers-supply.com/Pelican-Tank-Rack-4-Tank-P2305.aspx

EPIRB (highly recommend to backup handheld VHF and cellphone):

http://findmespot.com/en/

and/or

http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1%7C135%7C714833%7C320722&id=1505865

Mast for dive flag:

3/4" PVC pipe (held in place by outboard tiller handle with short piece of 3" ABS pipe -- hard to explain but I'll send a photo if you need to see what I mean).

 

[cburkart]

Re: Inflatable cost of ownership and other questions

jondavies, thanks so much for the links, they're extremely helpful and I'm now revising my shopping list! Do you just mount the tank rack smack in the middle of the boat to keep it away from the edges? By plywood base do you mean you have a plywood floor in your inflatable already and you just screw the tank into it? Or do you have a "foot" for the rack to stop it from tipping over? As for seating, does the tiller operator also just sit on a pontoon or the floor? Not sure about your flag mount description but I'll ponder on it.

Unfortunately I don't see short-shaft 40hp two-strokes for sale all that often (I browse the local craigslist every couple of days) so I guess I'll need to keep my eyes open or just ask around at the many local boat repair shops. The limit on engine weight for the boat is 175 lbs. so as long as I'm trailering (rather than carrying) and under that weight I should be good. I don't think any four strokes can come in under that weight unless they're 25hp, maybe some 30hp would just clear it.

Rat, thanks too for your input. I think I really would prefer to trailer, and I'm now intrigued by the modified Harbor Freight idea. I can get a brand new galvanized trailer (supposedly fits a 14' jon boat, see link in my previous post) locally for $500, but I could get a HF trailer and some pressure-treated wood for about half of that. How do you get the boat on and off of the trailer? I can't imagine you could get one of those trailers wet very many times before they start to rust. Is it just a "heave-ho" on and off the trailer?
Or maybe you deploy transom wheels to get it on/off the trailer?

Well, again, thanks for entertaining my questions!

 

[nobrainsd]

Re: Inflatable cost of ownership and other questions

Drowned Rat uses his Harbor freight trailer in fresh water. If you use it in salt water very much it wont last long. Why have a trailer that you can't immerse? A trailer does make it so much more convenient to hit the water. If it is an option you will find yourself using the boat more when it is an easy launch with most of your gear already stowed.

You will be amazed at how much room seating takes up. For a small inflatable there isn't all that much free floor space. The tubes take up a lot of space! I would think that you will not be going out in poor conditions, so sitting on the tubes isn't a terrible experience.

A permanent tank rank will also suck up floor space big time. If you just strap them down you can move them to a vertical position and free up your floor space when preparing for a dive. If you think you want 3-4 people in the boat you will want to be able to shuffle your gear and clear the deck.

Epirb is nice, a reliable vhf is a necessity and a good anchor with sufficient line to hold your position in an offshore wind is absolutely a requirement if you are going out 3-5 miles. I've had people laugh at my plow anchor with 8 feet of chain and 200' of line, but drifting out to sea (even with a radio) is not a good thing! Where I boat we get stiff offshores, the inflatable can be hard to spot and the response to an EPIRB would not be quick.

Your outboard decision should take into consideration whether you get a trailer or not. Go smal and slow if you unpack the boat and mount the outboard. Go big if you trailer the vessel. I've never complained that my outboard was too big, but I don't have to lug it around.

Until you get into the boat you will never know how little floor space there is.

 

[jondavies]

Re: Inflatable cost of ownership and other questions

Do you just mount the tank rack smack in the middle of the boat to keep it away from the edges? By plywood base do you mean you have a plywood floor in your inflatable already and you just screw the tank into it? Or do you have a "foot" for the rack to stop it from tipping over? As for seating, does the tiller operator also just sit on a pontoon or the floor? Not sure about your flag mount description but I'll ponder on it.

Yes, it's a plywood foot for the rack. It's a ~2'x3' piece of 5/8" varnished plywood. I put the weight belts on either side of the "foot" and, with the added weight of two or three tanks, it doesn't move so I don't bother about additional tie-downs (the rubber mat helps to stop it sliding too). If it were to slide, the aluminum stringers for the floor boards protect the tubes from the edge of the plywood.

As for the flag mount, I'll try to provide a better description. I have an 8" long section of 3" or 4" diameter ABS that I slide onto the tiller handle when it's in the vertical position. Then I slide the PVC flag pole down inside the ABS parallel with the tiller, wedging the end of the flag pole against the bottom of the transom. I hope that helps.

As an aside, I just got back from a late afternoon outing with my 14-year-old son and 6-year-old daughter. On the downside, the transducer stopped working for some reason and I noticed that one of the trailer guides has worked its way loose again, but it was worth the effort because we got to see one of the blue whales that have been hanging around just off the coast for the past few weeks -- an amazing sight. And my 6-year-old caught her first fish. I love my boat!

 

[cburkart]

Re: Inflatable cost of ownership and other questions

As for the flag mount, I'll try to provide a better description.

Got it--thanks for the description and details of the tank rack setup, too. I seem to remember reading you have a 15' Avon? How many divers are you able to comfortably have on board with the tank rank?

As an aside, I just got back from a late afternoon outing with my 14-year-old son and 6-year-old daughter...my 6-year-old caught her first fish. I love my boat!

Ok, now I'm even more motivated. I'd like to take my kids out for non-diving activities as well, though they're a bit younger (3 and 6). I hadn't really thought about fishing, now I have even more to think about...

 

[cburkart]

Re: Inflatable cost of ownership and other questions

A trailer does make it so much more convenient to hit the water. If it is an option you will find yourself using the boat more when it is an easy launch with most of your gear already stowed.

Yes, you're right; I think I will just go with the galvanized trailer. My only worry is that it won't be quite long enough. I was hoping that a 14' jon boat is about the same length (to the transom) as an inflatable given that the latter's pontoons have those conical pieces that stick out well behind the transom. I assume I'll have to make some trailer modifications, too. If I'm trailering I do want the biggest outboard I can fit, just need to find a 15"-shaft 40hp with a tiller that weighs in under 175 lbs.

I would think that you will not be going out in poor conditions, so sitting on the tubes isn't a terrible experience.

Yes, I figure any marine forecast beyond 1 to 3 foot seas would mean just staying in the bay/sound or not going out that day. Even on the best days I don't think I'd want to go more than about 5 miles out.

 

[jondavies]

Re: Inflatable cost of ownership and other questions

need to find a 15"-shaft 40hp with a tiller that weighs in under 175 lbs.

This is the motor I have on my boat. I think it's the lightest 40HP out there (~130lbs) and Tohatsu has a solid reputation. After some early teething troubles with the carb, mine has been bulletproof. If this one checks out mechanically, and it's close enough to you, the price is a deal:

http://miami.craigslist.org/pbc/boa/1969169239.html

As for the number of divers, I've only had two guys on my boat so far. After you've got a fuel tank, anchor crate, tank rack, PFDs and other safety essentials, it's amazing how quickly dive gear eats up the rest of the deck space. Everyone has to go minimal and keep their gear under control. (I tend to have divers tether their rigs to the boat and don them in the water.)

You might be able to squeeze three guys on the boat but they'd all need to be really squared away.

 

[mudslinging79]

Re: Inflatable cost of ownership and other questions

im toying with the idea of a piece of angle iron, drilled to hold a flag, mounted on the back outside of the transom, yet leaving enough room for the motor.... maybe something like that would work for you. i also have a clamp on light on a stick for the back end, possable flag mount as well for you?

 

[cburkart]

Re: Inflatable cost of ownership and other questions

This is the motor I have on my boat. I think it's the lightest 40HP out there (~130lbs) and Tohatsu has a solid reputation.

I'd just started engine-window-shopping and noticed that the pre-1999 Tohatsu 2-stroke outboards are about the best choice in terms of power/weight at only 130 lbs. for 40hp! I even came across the craigslist one you linked just about an hour before you posted it; unfortunately I won't be traveling to South Florida (about 10 hours one-way for me) anytime soon, that looks about the ideal engine and a very good price.

I guess I will ask around the local shops, they often have rebuilt outboards for sale.

Thanks again!

 

[likalar]

Re: Inflatable cost of ownership and other questions

4 people in the boat you describe is fine for a picnic cruise, but not so good for a day of diving. 8 fins, 8 tanks, weights, BCDs, dry bags, food and water, safety equipment (even 4 life jackets take a bunch of space), oars, ....the list goes on.....At the very least, share the fins and weights if possible. If you really want to have someone on board while 2 of you dive, bring a non-diving friend that enjoys reading. Promise him lunch and a boat ride. ;-)

Good luck; it's great fun to plan stuff like this.

Larry

 

[sasto]

Re: Inflatable cost of ownership and other questions

cburkhart,
Well thought out plan you have, if your research on boat ownership is any indication of the type of boater you will be, welcome to our world.

I would factor in an amount for "boat" maintenance and repair.... Sea Tow insurance....and time spent.

 

[cburkart]

Re: Inflatable cost of ownership and other questions

4 people in the boat you describe is fine for a picnic cruise, but not so good for a day of diving. 8 fins, 8 tanks, weights, BCDs, dry bags, food and water, safety equipment (even 4 life jackets take a bunch of space), oars, ....the list goes on.....

Larry, you're quite right and I hadn't thought at all about gear-sharing; that's an excellent idea. I think if we were to go out with 4 divers we'd be doing only one tank apiece and could easily share BCs and regsets. With three we'd rotate one-up/two-down for six total tanks if possible. Of course if the boat's too crowded, it's too crowded and we scale down expectations.

The whole point would be to get out on the water and have some fun, I don't have to cram the boat to max capacity. Likewise with weather--if forecasts are for anything more than 1 to 2 or maybe 3 foot seas, we just stay home. With that in mind we may just start out farting around, taking the kids fishing, and slowly work our way up to using it as a dive platform.

 

[cburkart]

Re: Inflatable cost of ownership and other questions

I would factor in an amount for "boat" maintenance and repair.... Sea Tow insurance....and time spent.

Thanks, I'd forgotten about Sea Tow--it's about $150/year IIRC? You're right about "time spent" being important--in the beginning I will probably entrust outboard maintenance to a boat shop...I'll be happy to (slowly) learn, though. Not sure about what sort of maintenance/repair an inflatable needs other than a hosing down?

 

[likalar]

Re: Inflatable cost of ownership and other questions

Thanks, I'd forgotten about Sea Tow--it's about $150/year IIRC? You're right about "time spent" being important--in the beginning I will probably entrust outboard maintenance to a boat shop...I'll be happy to (slowly) learn, though. Not sure about what sort of maintenance/repair an inflatable needs other than a hosing down?

Fresh fuel, flush out the salt water with earmuffs, lower unit oil, spark plug check, grease points, occasional fuel filter, check this, check that, etc.... this is DIY stuff. A decent manual might be a good idea, or at least the owner manual should do the trick. Modern outboards are so much better now. A maintenance log is worth keeping up to date.
An inflatable that gets sand inside needs a bit more attention. Let some air out and flush out the hidden areas where the tubes meet the floor (sand causes chafing wear). 303 protectant (UV protection) every 2-3 outings keeps the fabric fresh and rich.

Larry